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Denis Fitzgerald: Rugby codes should merge
June 20, 2008 12:00am
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,23890527-5001023,00.html
DENIS Fitzgerald is the longest-serving CEO in rugby league history. The man known as The Emperor of Parramatta is about to clock up 30 years at the helm of one of the NRL's most powerful clubs.
In an exclusive interview with The Daily Telegraph's DEAN RITCHIE, the game's human headline reveals:
* HIS beloved Eels are not certain to survive in the NRL for more than another five years;
* THAT he believes rugby league should merge with rugby union to fight off the threat of rivals codes;
* NRL boss David Gallop needs more power to be effective in running the game; and
* WHAT he thinks of his friends and enemies in the game after three decades of refusing to back away from a fight.
Q: Will the Sydney clubs survive the poker machine tax?
A: They will not all survive unless there are concessions from the NSW Government. The licensed club might but they won't be able to afford an NRL team. We are really hurting.
Q: Are the Eels safe?
A: I can't guarantee they will be in existence in five years time.
Q: The fans will be shattered if the Parramatta Eels die.
A: They will be absolutely up in arms. Most fans think a leagues club makes plenty of money. The crowds are there, the NRL TV rights money is there, so a lot of them don't understand how crucial the leagues club is in providing funding to keep our team competitive.
Q: You said recently that the salary cap should be reduced. Do you stand by that?
A: The Sydney clubs' loss of profits, primarily because of the pokie tax, is making sure clubs make drastic changes. If the tax isn't reduced to a more sustainable level, we will have to make severe changes. It could be that Parramatta and other clubs in Sydney might not be able to pay players to that level of the salary cap.
Q: Times are tough but you do enjoy a junket?
A: (Laughs) I don't go on junkets. The nature of my position as CEO of the football club and the leagues club means you just can't stay in the one spot. You need to look at other areas and other countries in terms of what they are doing, in gaming especially, which is what has kept all the rugby league clubs alive in Sydney for so long. I have regular trips, averaging one trip a year, primarily to the Global Gaming Expo that is held in Las Vegas. If the timing is right, I try and catch an NFL game to see what they are doing at the grounds.
Q: Could we get a copy of your passport?
A: No.
Q: What's the future of rugby league?
A: The future of rugby league is good. The future is very challenging as opposed to when I first started when we were the only game in town. We know Super 14 (rugby) came along, luckily for them when we were in the middle of the Super League war, and they generate a lot of money now, especially on the back of World Cups. The AFL has said it wants a second side in western Sydney and I think it will really struggle to do that, but the AFL does have a lot of money and resources. The A-League has been successful in some terms, although it is struggling financially. There is plenty of competition and we have to concentrate on our game, which is very resilient. I don't know of any other code that could have survived Super League and the one year (1997) of the split competition.
Q: Rugby league is 100 years old. Will league be a stand-alone sport in another 100 years or be merged with rugby union?
A: Very difficult to predict the future. I have made some predictions in the past, some have come true, some haven't. But I would think there will come a time when the two rugby codes will join. To me, it just makes commercial sense. We need to do it to give rugby league more of a world profile.
Q: When could this happen?
A: How long is a piece of string? I'd like to think it would happen in my lifetime, however long that is. Maybe within 20 years.
Q: What would be the dominant code?
A: You've got to amalgamate them so the best part of each code would remain. The best part of rugby off the field is its international flavour. It's played in a lot countries. If I look at it impartially, there are too many players on the field in rugby union. I see it as a 13-person game. As players get bigger and faster, you have less open play - the two breakaways stifle open play. It has to be a mix of both.
Q: You once famously predicted Manly, Melbourne and Souths would not survive, yet they are all still around.
A: That was one of my predictions that was wrong at the time. Manly went into a joint venture with North Sydney that failed. They are financially stronger now. Souths went for a couple of years and have now fought their way back. There is still a question mark over Melbourne. They are very strong on the field and thankfully for them they do have a good side, otherwise the crowds in Melbourne would be abysmal. I'm willing to give them a chance when the new government-built stadium opens there, which I think is costing $300 million. The facilities at Olympic Park are disgraceful, as well as playing on a mini-field. I do have doubts as to how many AFL supporters you could convert to rugby league because AFL is such a religion in Melbourne.
Q: Do you think the second AFL team in western Sydney is destined to fail?
A: I wouldn't say that, but I think they will do it very tough to get a good foothold.
Q: If ever?
A: I won't say it won't work. That will just give AFL more enthusiasm to ensure it does work. I just have my doubts.
Q: Do you love making headlines?
A: No, I don't. But I don't back away from them. I'm willing to say what I think and what is in the best interests of the game.
Q: How do you find the current administration set-up of the game?
A: I think there should be one board, not two (NRL board, NRL partnership board). But if there is one, David Gallop should have a vote. That would make his role more powerful. In the corporate world, a CEO is a member of the board and he votes. David needs to be a decision-maker. He needs more clout and to be more powerful.
Q: There are a lot of people out there who admire you but also plenty who hate you.
A: I've lived with that ever since I have been involved with football. If you're ready to make comments and look for change, there's going to be plenty of people who dislike you. There are detractors for anyone who has ever achieved anything. The very nature of the game is going to attract criticism from fans, media, opposition fans.
Q: Two former Parramatta greats, Ray Price and Brett Kenny, have been among your most vocal critics.
A: That doesn't upset me at all. I've met a lot of people over 30 years and there are some guys you can't please. They are two of them. They are reasonably close. Kenny has been a disciple of Price's, that's unfortunate. Both are the type of people who boo Santa Claus. They are the go-to people for the media if they want anyone to say something against Parramatta. I think Price and Kenny have been used up by the media.
Q: What about your regrets? I hear Parramatta Power, the failed soccer venture, cost your club $20 million.
A: It wasn't that much, about $10 million after expenses and taxes. It was disappointing. Once again, in hindsight, we could have used that money in a better way now. At the time we thought we could make it work. I regret it, but we gave it every opportunity.
Q: Super League?
A: I look back with a lot of anguish and disappointment. I heard someone on the radio the other day say the game was in a mess when Super League came. It was the exact opposite. The game was at an all-time high through the early 1990s. The administration was very good through John Quayle. We were the envy of other codes, especially rugby union and soccer. AFL, through the Swans, were really struggling at that time. The Tina Turner advertisements were world news and as good as any in the sporting world. The game was basically knee-capped. It was very, very disappointing.
Q: Do you still think that?
A: I haven't changed my views about what happened, but I accept that News Limited has 50 per cent of the game and that they are a very powerful partner to have. But I don't forget what some people did back then and I don't forgive either.
Q: How long will you remain in rugby league?
A: I have no intention or plans to step down. It would certainly be nice for the club to win another premiership before I do step down. No guarantees there, though. I'm 58, feeling fit and healthy and have no plans to leave.
Q: You are one of rugby league's great survivors.
A: Yes, in terms of the number of chief executives that have turned over in that time. I estimate there have been 120 CEOs in that period. The longest serving chief executive behind me currently around, and with the same club, would be Peter Doust at the Dragons. He may have been there for eight or nine years.
Q: Are you one of the few characters left in rugby league officialdom?
A: Sure, I'm seen as one of the more high-profile ones. Also, as the longest-serving CEO, or the doyen of the CEOs, at least I have plenty of experience to fall back on. Rather than a character, I see myself as someone who has been through a hell of a lot and I'm willing to express those experienced views.
Q: Over the years, Parramatta had built a reputation for being well-behaved off the field. The current crop of players have, however, let you down at times.
A: That's disappointing. We had a run of things with Tim Smith. It came out later he had bipolar disorder and needed treatment to enable him to live with bipolar. You dread the early morning phone call or the late night phone call. But you have to look at every detail because there are so many incidents reported that turn out to be nothing.
Q: What do you remember of Parramatta's glory days with premierships in 1981-82-83 and 86.
A: I remember them well. I have to remember those to give myself a boost from time to time. It was an amazing time to get such a great team together, most of the players from our own junior league. That doesn't come along too often - as we know only too well. Those first three wins were with Jack Gibson - they were always going to be interesting with Jack Gibson. It was good for my administrative career to be involved there with Jack at such a young age. I started as the CEO when I was 29 towards the end of 1978. Two and a bit years later, to be involved with Jack when I was 31, was a great experience. They were the greatest moments of the Parramatta club.
Q: You speak about Jack Gibson. Can I ask why you didn't attend his recent funeral?
A: I was at a conference in Terrigal, otherwise I would have gone.
Q: Parramatta haven't won a premiership for 22 years. Do you shoulder some blame for that?
A: I think I have to take some of the blame for that. I think winning a comp involves a whole club, not just 17 players and a coach on grand final day. There is the staff. There are things I haven't done that I wish I had done and certainly since our last comp in 1986, where a lot of juniors came through the ranks, our recruitment wasn't as good as it should have been. I thought we could continue to develop the juniors like Brett Kenny, Eric Grothe and Steve Ella. But that wasn't to be and you never know when that might happen again.
Q: Biggest regret?
A: My biggest regret . . . I think we should have been more active in getting more current internationals to the club rather than think the local juniors would continue to come through.
Q: Congrats on a great career, Fitzy. Can I come to Vegas next year?
A: Sure. Just don't bring Pricey.
June 20, 2008 12:00am
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,23890527-5001023,00.html
DENIS Fitzgerald is the longest-serving CEO in rugby league history. The man known as The Emperor of Parramatta is about to clock up 30 years at the helm of one of the NRL's most powerful clubs.
In an exclusive interview with The Daily Telegraph's DEAN RITCHIE, the game's human headline reveals:
* HIS beloved Eels are not certain to survive in the NRL for more than another five years;
* THAT he believes rugby league should merge with rugby union to fight off the threat of rivals codes;
* NRL boss David Gallop needs more power to be effective in running the game; and
* WHAT he thinks of his friends and enemies in the game after three decades of refusing to back away from a fight.
Q: Will the Sydney clubs survive the poker machine tax?
A: They will not all survive unless there are concessions from the NSW Government. The licensed club might but they won't be able to afford an NRL team. We are really hurting.
Q: Are the Eels safe?
A: I can't guarantee they will be in existence in five years time.
Q: The fans will be shattered if the Parramatta Eels die.
A: They will be absolutely up in arms. Most fans think a leagues club makes plenty of money. The crowds are there, the NRL TV rights money is there, so a lot of them don't understand how crucial the leagues club is in providing funding to keep our team competitive.
Q: You said recently that the salary cap should be reduced. Do you stand by that?
A: The Sydney clubs' loss of profits, primarily because of the pokie tax, is making sure clubs make drastic changes. If the tax isn't reduced to a more sustainable level, we will have to make severe changes. It could be that Parramatta and other clubs in Sydney might not be able to pay players to that level of the salary cap.
Q: Times are tough but you do enjoy a junket?
A: (Laughs) I don't go on junkets. The nature of my position as CEO of the football club and the leagues club means you just can't stay in the one spot. You need to look at other areas and other countries in terms of what they are doing, in gaming especially, which is what has kept all the rugby league clubs alive in Sydney for so long. I have regular trips, averaging one trip a year, primarily to the Global Gaming Expo that is held in Las Vegas. If the timing is right, I try and catch an NFL game to see what they are doing at the grounds.
Q: Could we get a copy of your passport?
A: No.
Q: What's the future of rugby league?
A: The future of rugby league is good. The future is very challenging as opposed to when I first started when we were the only game in town. We know Super 14 (rugby) came along, luckily for them when we were in the middle of the Super League war, and they generate a lot of money now, especially on the back of World Cups. The AFL has said it wants a second side in western Sydney and I think it will really struggle to do that, but the AFL does have a lot of money and resources. The A-League has been successful in some terms, although it is struggling financially. There is plenty of competition and we have to concentrate on our game, which is very resilient. I don't know of any other code that could have survived Super League and the one year (1997) of the split competition.
Q: Rugby league is 100 years old. Will league be a stand-alone sport in another 100 years or be merged with rugby union?
A: Very difficult to predict the future. I have made some predictions in the past, some have come true, some haven't. But I would think there will come a time when the two rugby codes will join. To me, it just makes commercial sense. We need to do it to give rugby league more of a world profile.
Q: When could this happen?
A: How long is a piece of string? I'd like to think it would happen in my lifetime, however long that is. Maybe within 20 years.
Q: What would be the dominant code?
A: You've got to amalgamate them so the best part of each code would remain. The best part of rugby off the field is its international flavour. It's played in a lot countries. If I look at it impartially, there are too many players on the field in rugby union. I see it as a 13-person game. As players get bigger and faster, you have less open play - the two breakaways stifle open play. It has to be a mix of both.
Q: You once famously predicted Manly, Melbourne and Souths would not survive, yet they are all still around.
A: That was one of my predictions that was wrong at the time. Manly went into a joint venture with North Sydney that failed. They are financially stronger now. Souths went for a couple of years and have now fought their way back. There is still a question mark over Melbourne. They are very strong on the field and thankfully for them they do have a good side, otherwise the crowds in Melbourne would be abysmal. I'm willing to give them a chance when the new government-built stadium opens there, which I think is costing $300 million. The facilities at Olympic Park are disgraceful, as well as playing on a mini-field. I do have doubts as to how many AFL supporters you could convert to rugby league because AFL is such a religion in Melbourne.
Q: Do you think the second AFL team in western Sydney is destined to fail?
A: I wouldn't say that, but I think they will do it very tough to get a good foothold.
Q: If ever?
A: I won't say it won't work. That will just give AFL more enthusiasm to ensure it does work. I just have my doubts.
Q: Do you love making headlines?
A: No, I don't. But I don't back away from them. I'm willing to say what I think and what is in the best interests of the game.
Q: How do you find the current administration set-up of the game?
A: I think there should be one board, not two (NRL board, NRL partnership board). But if there is one, David Gallop should have a vote. That would make his role more powerful. In the corporate world, a CEO is a member of the board and he votes. David needs to be a decision-maker. He needs more clout and to be more powerful.
Q: There are a lot of people out there who admire you but also plenty who hate you.
A: I've lived with that ever since I have been involved with football. If you're ready to make comments and look for change, there's going to be plenty of people who dislike you. There are detractors for anyone who has ever achieved anything. The very nature of the game is going to attract criticism from fans, media, opposition fans.
Q: Two former Parramatta greats, Ray Price and Brett Kenny, have been among your most vocal critics.
A: That doesn't upset me at all. I've met a lot of people over 30 years and there are some guys you can't please. They are two of them. They are reasonably close. Kenny has been a disciple of Price's, that's unfortunate. Both are the type of people who boo Santa Claus. They are the go-to people for the media if they want anyone to say something against Parramatta. I think Price and Kenny have been used up by the media.
Q: What about your regrets? I hear Parramatta Power, the failed soccer venture, cost your club $20 million.
A: It wasn't that much, about $10 million after expenses and taxes. It was disappointing. Once again, in hindsight, we could have used that money in a better way now. At the time we thought we could make it work. I regret it, but we gave it every opportunity.
Q: Super League?
A: I look back with a lot of anguish and disappointment. I heard someone on the radio the other day say the game was in a mess when Super League came. It was the exact opposite. The game was at an all-time high through the early 1990s. The administration was very good through John Quayle. We were the envy of other codes, especially rugby union and soccer. AFL, through the Swans, were really struggling at that time. The Tina Turner advertisements were world news and as good as any in the sporting world. The game was basically knee-capped. It was very, very disappointing.
Q: Do you still think that?
A: I haven't changed my views about what happened, but I accept that News Limited has 50 per cent of the game and that they are a very powerful partner to have. But I don't forget what some people did back then and I don't forgive either.
Q: How long will you remain in rugby league?
A: I have no intention or plans to step down. It would certainly be nice for the club to win another premiership before I do step down. No guarantees there, though. I'm 58, feeling fit and healthy and have no plans to leave.
Q: You are one of rugby league's great survivors.
A: Yes, in terms of the number of chief executives that have turned over in that time. I estimate there have been 120 CEOs in that period. The longest serving chief executive behind me currently around, and with the same club, would be Peter Doust at the Dragons. He may have been there for eight or nine years.
Q: Are you one of the few characters left in rugby league officialdom?
A: Sure, I'm seen as one of the more high-profile ones. Also, as the longest-serving CEO, or the doyen of the CEOs, at least I have plenty of experience to fall back on. Rather than a character, I see myself as someone who has been through a hell of a lot and I'm willing to express those experienced views.
Q: Over the years, Parramatta had built a reputation for being well-behaved off the field. The current crop of players have, however, let you down at times.
A: That's disappointing. We had a run of things with Tim Smith. It came out later he had bipolar disorder and needed treatment to enable him to live with bipolar. You dread the early morning phone call or the late night phone call. But you have to look at every detail because there are so many incidents reported that turn out to be nothing.
Q: What do you remember of Parramatta's glory days with premierships in 1981-82-83 and 86.
A: I remember them well. I have to remember those to give myself a boost from time to time. It was an amazing time to get such a great team together, most of the players from our own junior league. That doesn't come along too often - as we know only too well. Those first three wins were with Jack Gibson - they were always going to be interesting with Jack Gibson. It was good for my administrative career to be involved there with Jack at such a young age. I started as the CEO when I was 29 towards the end of 1978. Two and a bit years later, to be involved with Jack when I was 31, was a great experience. They were the greatest moments of the Parramatta club.
Q: You speak about Jack Gibson. Can I ask why you didn't attend his recent funeral?
A: I was at a conference in Terrigal, otherwise I would have gone.
Q: Parramatta haven't won a premiership for 22 years. Do you shoulder some blame for that?
A: I think I have to take some of the blame for that. I think winning a comp involves a whole club, not just 17 players and a coach on grand final day. There is the staff. There are things I haven't done that I wish I had done and certainly since our last comp in 1986, where a lot of juniors came through the ranks, our recruitment wasn't as good as it should have been. I thought we could continue to develop the juniors like Brett Kenny, Eric Grothe and Steve Ella. But that wasn't to be and you never know when that might happen again.
Q: Biggest regret?
A: My biggest regret . . . I think we should have been more active in getting more current internationals to the club rather than think the local juniors would continue to come through.
Q: Congrats on a great career, Fitzy. Can I come to Vegas next year?
A: Sure. Just don't bring Pricey.
