Early MVP candidates

[Tiger Hawk]

also tony parker will not win MVP. He is not the most important player on the Spurs, Duncan and probably Manu are both more important to that team.

A couple of years ago, sure. Now? Not sure I'd agree. Duncan isn't the player he was (much as I hate admitting it) and whilst Manu is incredibly valuable to the Spurs, these days everything runs through TP.

I don't think he'll win it, but the question was who are the candidates. I'd include TP as a candidate.

 

[andrew057]

lol amare ??? Love dropped 31-31 on him and bargani scored a season high 41 on him
he is the worse defender in the league,Dwight gets my vote

You do know Nash won the MVP twice, right?

 

[Tiger Hawk]

And Dirk.

 

[Fast Eddie]

lol amare ??? Love dropped 31-31 on him and bargani scored a season high 41 on him
he is the worse defender in the league,Dwight gets my vote

Amare barley marked up on him in the 2nd half of that game because of foul trouble.

 

[ByRd]

Issue I have with that is that I'm not sure he's more valuable (or as valuable) to the Spurs as Manu. I mean Manu has been very good this season and you could say make the argument that he's the barometre for how far this Spurs team can go. His health has been dodgy for the last two seasons, and as a result, the Spurs haven't been able to seriously contend in the playoffs.

It's the same reason why I don't atm consider guys like Kobe, Gasol, Rondo, Garnett, Lebron, Wade, Durant, Westbrook as legitimate MVP candidates. How can you be the MVP of the league when it's not clear whether your the MVP of your own team?

Im sick of people saying that they are not sure who is the lakers "star", Kobe is clearly our main player and the leader of the side. Yes, Gasol is important but the offence runs through Kobe, he is the teams leader and he does not hide when it gets tough.

His averaging 27/5/5 in 33mpg and his shot is starting to look better over the last 5 games. Gasols numbers will dip once Bynum is back but even without the stats, Kobe is the clear mvp of the Lakers.

 

[Tonearm Terrorwrist]

LA wouldn't win sh*t without Pau Gasol.

 

[Tiger Hawk]

Im sick of people saying that they are not sure who is the lakers "star", Kobe is clearly our main player and the leader of the side. Yes, Gasol is important but the offence runs through Kobe, he is the teams leader and he does not hide when it gets tough.

His averaging 27/5/5 in 33mpg and his shot is starting to look better over the last 5 games. Gasols numbers will dip once Bynum is back but even without the stats, Kobe is the clear mvp of the Lakers.

I suppose it depends on what constitutes "MVP" for each person. Whether it's the most talented / best individual player on a team, or the player that most helps their team win.

For me, Gasol most helps the Lakers win, whilst Kobe is clearly their best player. I therefore think Gasol is their Most Valuable Player. For evidence I look at the Lakers record post-Shaq and pre-Pau and they went 34-48 (missed playoffs), 45-37 (lost in first round) and 42-40 (lost in first round). Gasol arrived in February 2008 and up until this season they never lost more than 3 in a row, making three straight Finals and winning back-to-back championships. Some of that comes down to improving the supporting cast as well (upgrades to Kwame / Mihm / Smush etc), but the biggest factor is definitely Gasol.

 

[Ridders]

Im sick of people saying that they are not sure who is the lakers "star", Kobe is clearly our main player and the leader of the side. Yes, Gasol is important but the offence runs through Kobe, he is the teams leader and he does not hide when it gets tough.

His averaging 27/5/5 in 33mpg and his shot is starting to look better over the last 5 games. Gasols numbers will dip once Bynum is back but even without the stats, Kobe is the clear mvp of the Lakers.

What do you mean by the lakers "star"? Kobe and Gasol are both stars.

The interpretation of the term "MVP" does muddy the waters. I've probably changed my opinion on it a hundred times. Nowdays I probably lean towards the side of, as Tiger said, who helps their side win more.

With that interpretation, as Tiger alluded to, being a team's best player doesn't automatically make you the team's MVP.

The Thunder are probably the best example of this atm. I think the general consensus atm is that Durant is one of the best players in the league. Top 5 seems reasonable. However you could make the case that Westbrook has been the Thunder's most important player this season. He's the one that runs the team and gets things flowing. Does that mean that Westbrook is a Top 5 player as well?

I'm not saying that Gasol is the Laker's MVP atm, just that, in my opinion, it's not clear as to who is.

On the flipside, I will say this. While Gasol's presence has without question boosted the Lakers and helped Kobe out alot, lets not ignore how much playing with Kobe has helped Gasol out. Remind me where Gasol was before he started playing with Kobe? He's always been a talented big man but only after playing with Kobe has he established himself as one of the best bigs in the game. I think we tend to underestimate how playing with Kobe has freed up Gasol's game since defenses will, for most of the time, primarily focus their defenses on Kobe.

 

[ByRd]

Excellent point made Ridders, playing with Kobe (who gets double team pretty much every game) allows Gasol to work 1 on 1 as the defence is focused on stopping Kobe (whether he is scoring or assisting).

Also, whoever said the Lakers would be nowhere without Gasol is right to an extent but if you think that get anywhere at all without Kobe then you are clearly under rating his presence and impact on the side, he is the Lakers MVP and the reason Gasol was being stated as the Lakers MVP was due to Kobe taking the pressure off him and Gasol playing in a dominate front court where he can stand out alot easier, i dont really care tbh as i support them both but Kobe is the most important member on the Lakers without doubt.

 

[Fast Eddie]

How good was Amare yesterday? Especially in the first quarter he was unstoppable.

 

[Tonearm Terrorwrist]

On the flipside, I will say this. While Gasol's presence has without question boosted the Lakers and helped Kobe out alot, lets not ignore how much playing with Kobe has helped Gasol out. Remind me where Gasol was before he started playing with Kobe? He's always been a talented big man but only after playing with Kobe has he established himself as one of the best bigs in the game. I think we tend to underestimate how playing with Kobe has freed up Gasol's game since defenses will, for most of the time, primarily focus their defenses on Kobe.

Pau was at a wack team but is still keeping up with his numbers at the Grizzlies. I think you're overrating Kobe's role tbh Pau came in and did his thing he was already doing for 7 or 8 years and basically took that team to the finals, remind me where Kobe was before Gasol turned up the Lakers were struggling hard post-Shaq and continued to struggle until they got another dominant big man. Pau's stats at the Grizzlies don't differentiate too much from his Lakers stats it's not like playing with Kobe has unleashed untapped potential it just meant now he has a few rings his talents were already recongisable and at the time somebody once said stupid trades like that should be automaticaly denied by the league. The Pau trade is up there with Kareem's as one of the worst of all time.

Both players have contributed equally to the success of the Lakers at the same time but Gasol came up big in game 7 of the finals this year when it was all on the line.

 

[andrew057]

Pau was at a wack team but is still keeping up with his numbers at the Grizzlies. I think you're overrating Kobe's role tbh Pau came in and did his thing he was already doing for 7 or 8 years and basically took that team to the finals, remind me where Kobe was before Gasol turned up the Lakers were struggling hard post-Shaq and continued to struggle until they got another dominant big man. Pau's stats at the Grizzlies don't differentiate too much from his Lakers stats it's not like playing with Kobe has unleashed untapped potential it just meant now he has a few rings his talents were already recongisable and at the time somebody once said stupid trades like that should be automaticaly denied by the league. The Pau trade is up there with Kareem's as one of the worst of all time.

Both players have contributed equally to the success of the Lakers at the same time but Gasol came up big in game 7 of the finals this year when it was all on the line.

Spot on Tonetard.

 

[Ridders]

Pau was at a wack team but is still keeping up with his numbers at the Grizzlies. I think you're overrating Kobe's role tbh Pau came in and did his thing he was already doing for 7 or 8 years and basically took that team to the finals, remind me where Kobe was before Gasol turned up the Lakers were struggling hard post-Shaq and continued to struggle until they got another dominant big man. Pau's stats at the Grizzlies don't differentiate too much from his Lakers stats it's not like playing with Kobe has unleashed untapped potential it just meant now he has a few rings his talents were already recongisable and at the time somebody once said stupid trades like that should be automaticaly denied by the league. The Pau trade is up there with Kareem's as one of the worst of all time.

Both players have contributed equally to the success of the Lakers at the same time but Gasol came up big in game 7 of the finals this year when it was all on the line.

The Lakers were actually doing pretty well at the start of the 2007-2008 season with the Kobe, Bynum, Odom trio, and iirc were one of the best teams in the league before Bynum went down.

How am I overrating Kobe’s role? I’ve said that Gasol has helped Kobe out a lot. On the flipside playing with Kobe has allowed Gasol to become a significantly more efficient player and flourish as a second option. People always like pointing out the former, but almost always fail to recognise the latter. Wonder why? I’m going to unleash my inner Tiger and lay down some stats.

His scoring averages are virtually identical in Memphis and LA. Averaged 18.8 points for both teams.

However his FG% has significantly boosted since moving to LA. Gasol’s career average FG% for Grizzlies was 51.2%. With the Lakers his average FG% boosted to 55.1%. So he's still scoring the same, but at a more efficient rate.

Gasol’s career average TO’s for the Grizzlies was 2.6. With the Lakers it’s dropped to 1.9.

Gasol’s career average’s in assists for the Grizzlies was 3.07. With the Lakers it’s risen to 3.57. So notice that despite his TO’s going down, his assists have actually gone up and his scoring is still the same, a pretty impressive feat.

Gasol career averaged in rebounds for the Grizzlies was 8.6. With the Lakers it’s boosted to 10.1. If we want to go into advanced stats, his total rebound rates have increased while playing for LA (especially offensive boards).

Like I said before, Gasol's always been a talented player. I'm not saying he was a scrub until he came to LA. But as the stats show, as well as by watching him play, I think it's reasonable to say that he's become a better and more efficient player since coming to LA.

 

[Tonearm Terrorwrist]

What about coach of the year? Coaches like Jackson, Sloan, Poppovich don't seem to get recognition because their teams are strong and are almost expected to achieve what they do so I'll say it will come down to Tom Thibodeau or Nate McMillan but if the Spurs achieve a mid 60's record I'd like to see Gregg Popovich win it regardless of what other teams do they have played fantastic all year so far and seem to play with a more offensive edge than previous Spurs years.

How about the 6th man of the year, Manu Ginobli?

 

[andrew057]

No doubt Pop gets it if Spurs keep it up.

Monty Williams has also done a really good job as well.

 

[Ridders]

With nearly 2/3rds of the season over, it seems as though the MVP race is still pretty wide open.

You could make cases for Dwight, Lebron or Rose.

But I'd probably still go with Dirk. While his numbers aren't amazing, his impact on the team is unquestionable.

Mavs are 42-9 with Dirk, while going 2-7 when he was out injured.

 

[Tonearm Terrorwrist]

I don't think you can make one for Lebron, I'd give it to Rose but for me it's between Rose, Dwight and Dirk

 

[vaney88]

Derrick rose...