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Eden Park or new waterfront stadium?

gunnamatta bay

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http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/sundaystartimes/0,2106,3865698a19695,00.html


$500m Mallard monstrosity will be a dead duck
19 November 2006



By CHRIS TROTTER
Jeez Trev, whadarya? Half-a-billion dollars to make this country stand up and shout "This is what we're about!" - and what do you come up with? A bloody great stadium on the Auckland waterfront.
You do realise that just about every stadium that's ever been built has ended up losing money? Take Stadium Australia (the ANZ wishes somebody would!). That magnificent Aussie icon - centrepiece of the 2000 Olympics - never made a penny of profit and is now $140 million in debt.
And that's Sydney, mate. Four million people in one place and the Aussies still couldn't make the thing pay. What on earth makes you think that a city a quarter of Sydney's size is going to do any better?
I suppose we should congratulate you though. Extracting that amount of money from Michael Cullen cannot have been easy.
Hell, we've got 260 radiographers on strike, people's health being compromised all over the show, and is anybody offering the DHBs the $1m it would take to settle the thing? Not on your Nelly!
But just let Trev say the magic word "rugby", and half-a-billion dollars suddenly materialises out of thin air.
It's quite a trick.
But what's got me really puzzled is why your boss is so willing to give you the keys to Dr Cullen's safe.
I mean, it's not as if you've done Helen all that many favours of late. That business with the schools - at the very least, it cost Labour the seats of Invercargill and Timaru. A lot of prime ministers would have shortened you by a head for a stunt like that. But what does Helen do? She makes you her bloody minister of economic development!
I tell you, it's baffling.
And I'm not even going to mention your infamous "Speaking of affairs" quip in the House, and remind everyone of just how helpful that was to the government.
So how did you sell her on the idea? How did you persuade a socialist-feminist elected to parliament in the grim aftermath of the 1981 Springbok Tour to stump up all that cash for a game she doesn't even like? I reckon you sold the whole Rugby World Cup package to the PM by slotting it into her grand visions of "economic transformation" and "fostering national identity". And you're pitching the 60,000-seat stadium as a key element of the plan to turn Auckland into a "world city".
But Trev, you and I both know that the boss has been sold a pup.
The experts tell us that to turn your home town into a "world" city, you have to make it a place where "creatives" feel at home. These creative types are apparently the key to the whole process - the yeast in the dough (so to speak).
Look what happened when the government decided to plonk a bloody great museum on somebody's waterfront instead of a gigantic sports venue. Wellington was transformed into an exciting and vibrant capital - with a global reputation for creative endeavour.
Now, call me a pessimist, but I just don't see the artists, writers, playwrights, movie directors, and computer-graphic wizards homing in on "Stadium New Zealand".
It would have made a lot more sense for Helen to have given the half-billion dollars to TVNZ and NZ on Air, and let the NZRFU make do with the $79m Steve Maharey has just set aside for the state broadcaster's digital platform. Fifty million dollars a year, for 10 years, would have procured some truly outstanding television. It would also have transformed Auckland's economy and fostered our national identity a helluva lot more effectively than six weeks of rugby.
One last thought for you, Trev. Assuming the stadium's built on time and under budget (and those, mate, are truly heroic assumptions): What if we don't win? What if New Zealand fails to make it through to the final? (It's happened before.)
I'll tell you what'll happen, Trev. You'll have a 60,000-seat stadium, with 20,000 people in it. And that'll scream out "world city" to a billion television viewers - won't it?
Your great white elephant will be known forever after as - the Mallard Stand.
A dead duck.
 

gunnamatta bay

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This dilemma would not be happening if the 2011 world cup was rightfully awarded to Japan. The ARU had the foresight to vote for the Japs and thus give rugby in Asia a huge boost but greed won out in the end.
 

SpaceMonkey

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gunnamatta bay said:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10411910

Will democracy take a battering in NZ? All todays stories in the NZ Herald indicate the majority don't want this eyesore built. A majority of architects don't want it. But a small minority of rugby nuts and politicians do so they intend to steamroll through their tacky legislation.

Eyesore? Who says it's an eyesore? It's a stadium, and looking at the design quite an attractive one. Certainly no worse than Telstra, the SFS or Lang Park, and far more attractive than the yard full of used cars on the current site. What exactly do you have against Auckland having a new stadium GB? You seem very opposed to it yourself.... if as you there was such majority opposition to it being built, don't you think that more than 300 people (in a city of 1.3 Million) would have turned up to the public meeting opposing it?
 

gunnamatta bay

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21,084
Why do you think a majority of architects don't want it spacey? Why do you think a majority of NZ Herald readers don't want it?

Spacey do you approve of this proposed undemocratic jack boot erosion of the average citizens rights?
 

gunnamatta bay

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21,084
SpaceMonkey said:
Eyesore? Who says it's an eyesore? It's a stadium, and looking at the design quite an attractive one.

All I've seen is some dressed up drawing with plenty of flashing lights. Very clever marketing. Fortunately the majority have not reacted like moths and have rejected the nazis who would trample their rights into the dust like a Wallaby scrum.
 

Te Kaha

First Grade
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5,998
gunnamatta bay said:
Why do you think a majority of architects don't want it spacey? Why do you think a majority of NZ Herald readers don't want it?

Spacey do you approve of this proposed undemocratic jack boot erosion of the average citizens rights?

And where do the vast majority of architects state they dont want it?

And given that the herald readership is over a million a day, where are the more than half million people stating they appose it?
 

gunnamatta bay

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21,084
Jesus TK I had no trouble finding this. I remember you though. Your the guy who reckons anyone who criticises NZ politics occasionally must be racist. Yet your the bloke who claimed kiwis were somehow much more intelligent than Australians but had nothing to prove it. Racist!!!
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10411909



Architects oppose waterfront

Auckland's architects - a community priding itself on no shortage of vision - appear more vehemently opposed to a waterfront stadium than even Herald readers.

The Institute of Architects' Auckland branch says that of 264 members who responded to a snap three-day email poll, 74 per cent believed a 37m-high stadium had no place on the region's waterfront.

Asked about building the stadium on the Government-preferred site across Captain Cook and Marsden wharves, just 21 per cent were in favour.

When asked if they supported the redevelopment of Eden Park, they were more evenly split, with 41 per cent backing that option and 39 per cent opposed.

The remaining 20 per cent were undecided.

Institute branch immediate past chairman Kerry Avery said the strongest message from the survey was that any decision must be made on the basis of independent urban-design analysis.

Factors to be considered included crowd travel expectation, the effect on wind patterns at street level, the visual impact from multiple viewpoints, noise and light intrusion on neighbours and complementary uses to ensure high public activity at all times around the stadium - even when it is unoccupied
 

gunnamatta bay

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21,084
Te Kaha said:
And given that the herald readership is over a million a day, where are the more than half million people stating they appose it?

Click on the above link and embrace the warm breeze of enlightenment.
 

Te Kaha

First Grade
Messages
5,998
gunnamatta bay said:
Click on the above link and embrace the warm breeze of enlightenment.

Er.. last time i looked.. 12,000 odd emails does not mean half a million people appose it... just means 12000 people took the time to reapond.. I will ask again... where are the half million + people apposed to it???
 
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4,051
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=1&ObjectID=10412066

Stadium decision: Legal challenge threatens today's vote

Thursday November 23, 2006
By David Eames

Auckland Mayor Dick Hubbard is promising to fight an eleventh-hour legal bid to stop tonight's Auckland City Council decision on the waterfront stadium.

"All our legal advice indicates we are totally in the clear in terms of procedure," he said last night.

Auckland lawyer Rodney Harrison, QC, yesterday said he was preparing a High Court injunction "seeking to restrain decision-making in relation to the waterfront stadium by Auckland City Council and Auckland Regional Council".

In a Herald DigiPoll survey, 50 per cent of respondents preferred an upgraded Eden Park to a waterfront stadium.

The survey, of 751 residents in the Auckland Regional Council area, is the first professionally-done public opinion poll on the subject.

It found 35.9 per cent of those surveyed wanted a waterfront stadium.

Five plaintiffs are understood to be involved in the injunction bid. Dr Harrison said only that they were "a group of individuals, concerned citizens and ratepayers".

The action was expected to be heard in the High Court at Auckland at 10am today.

The stadium decision is expected to be top of the agenda at tonight's city council meeting.

The Auckland Regional Council is due to make its decision on the waterfront stadium tomorrow.

Chairman Mike Lee said members of the public would be able to make submissions before the ARC considered the matter.

The injunction could pose problems for Eden Park supporters.

Eden Park development committee chairman Rob Fisher said last night he would not oppose the injunction bid, but he wanted it resolved before consent hearings began on November 30.

The Herald DigiPoll survey shows hefty opposition to a Government proposal allowing local authorities to impose new taxes - such as bed taxes and increased airport departure charges - that would make tourists foot some of the bill for a waterfront venue.

More than 55 per cent rejected the idea, against 37.1 in favour of the scheme. The rest had no opinion.

Eden Park was also the overall favourite when respondents were asked to choose their preferred stadium venue from six sites, including Carlaw Park and Manukau City.

Eden Park was the favoured site for 31.1 per cent of respondents, ahead of North Harbour Stadium in second place on 23.1 per cent.

The Government's waterfront stadium, straddling Marsden and Captain Cook wharves, found favour with 15.4 per cent of respondents, and Carlaw Park had 5.7 per cent support.

The poll was taken between November 13 and 20.

Asked to choose between a waterfront stadium or an upgraded Eden Park, 54.2 per cent of woman and 45.5 per cent of men favoured an Eden Park upgrade.

A waterfront stadium was the preferred choice of 40.8 per cent of men, and 31.6 per cent of women.

The waterfront stadium was most popular choice among North Shore residents - 48.4 per cent favoured it, over 35.5 per cent support for Eden Park.

But North Shore support for Eden Park dropped to 21.1 per cent when North Harbour Stadium was presented as an option.

Just over 57 per cent of North Shore residents preferred the idea of a stadium on their side of the harbour bridge.
 

SpaceMonkey

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gunnamatta bay said:
Why do you think a majority of architects don't want it spacey? Why do you think a majority of NZ Herald readers don't want it?

Spacey do you approve of this proposed undemocratic jack boot erosion of the average citizens rights?

Lol majority of Herald readers? A few hundred people responded to an unscientific, uncontrolled poll run by a newspaper.... polls don't mean jack sh*t unless they're run by polling company with proper controls.
As for the architects I don't see them proposing anything better... there's a yard full of used cars there ffs. Have you ever been to that part of Auckland? It's a dump that's wanted redevelopment for years and if the stadium dfoesn't go ahead it'll still be a car yard for the next 30 years.
 

SpaceMonkey

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gunnamatta bay said:
All I've seen is some dressed up drawing with plenty of flashing lights. Very clever marketing. Fortunately the majority have not reacted like moths and have rejected the nazis who would trample their rights into the dust like a Wallaby scrum.

So what makes YOU think it will be an eyesore? Is Telstra an eyesore? Is Aussie stadium an eyesore? Why do you think the waterfront stadium will be any worse?
 

ozbash

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5 people ???

auckland has its self by the throat. it just keeps squeezing the life out of itself.
 

SpaceMonkey

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ozbash said:
5 people ???

auckland has its self by the throat. it just keeps squeezing the life out of itself.

Auckland's problem is (and always has been) that there's no city-wide authority for cooordinating these sort of projects. The ARC's powers are extremely limited in that regard.
 

Dr Crane

Live Update Team
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19,531
12-8 vote in favour of the stadium.

I'd rather stare at a stadium than a f**king container terminal.

Hopefully i'll be able to keep an eye on developments given i have to go into town for Uni next year.
 

SpaceMonkey

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Thank christ for that. Good on the Auckland councillors and especially Dick Hubbard for showing some balls. "If you build it, they will come!"
Wonder if any future Kiwi league tests will be held there?
 

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