Edge Defence Thread

[I'm a loser baby...]

Moses might have improved his defence but he is still a lightweight. His tackle effectiveness is still poor. Yes he is crucial to our team but can we stop pretending it’s a coincidence that his edge is poor defensively?

No

 

[yy_cheng]

Can't slide when winners keep coming in

 

[forestfan]

Moses is not a problem- I remember against Kikau he put his body in front and had a go

hes come a long way from 2017

 

[Poupou Escobar]

BA is reluctant to make changes.

He's been described as stubborn.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

surely we should emulate Penriths style or even Cowboys sliding defence

Both teams have two strong defensive halves and a pack full of toilers.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Moses is not a problem- I remember against Kikau he put his body in front and had a go

hes come a long way from 2017

He is again in the top ten in the NRL for missed tackles. In fact last year was the only time since his first full season (2015) that he hasn't been in the top ten. He has improved (he used to finish in the top five) but he isn't in the Townsend/Dearden/Luai/Cleary class. Better kicker though, or about as good as Cleary.

If Maloney can win multiple premierships Mitch Moses can. But he is a weak point in defence, and needs good defenders around him.

 

[Happy MEel]

He is again in the top ten in the NRL for missed tackles. In fact last year was the only time since his first full season (2015) that he hasn't been in the top ten. He has improved (he used to finish in the top five) but he isn't in the Townsend/Dearden/Luai/Cleary class. Better kicker though, or about as good as Cleary.

If Maloney can win multiple premierships Mitch Moses can. But he is a weak point in defence, and needs good defenders around him.

Is it that those players are better defenders or do they have better edge forwards (and Middles) that minimise their one on one tackles. Moses has Paps next to him FFS.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

No I think they're better defenders but I agree that Moses would look better with better defenders either side of him. I think Penisini will be a great defender, and hopefully we can find a suitable edge forward.

 

[Eelementary]

Credit NRL app

I think you can see from the screen freezes one of the issues in our right hand edge defence - a lack of communication, and/or trust between Simonsson, and Penisini.

For Nofoaluma's first try, you can see that Simonsson only had eyes for the ball carrier; as soon as the runner drifted wider, Simonsson got caught staring at his opposing centre, when it is arguable that the inside players had him covered.

The Tigers went to Nofoaluma, and Simonsson had to go for the intercept, and missed.

 

[Eelementary]

Moses might have improved his defence but he is still a lightweight. His tackle effectiveness is still poor. Yes he is crucial to our team but can we stop pretending it’s a coincidence that his edge is poor defensively?

I agree.

Moses has become a good tackler, but his ability to read the attack, and slide, is still an issue (which is fine; he's a halfback, after all).

And because he is small, he can get pushed away easily.

 

[Gronk]

BA is reluctant to make changes.

I don’t think making changes is the solution. We’ve had a zillion combinations out there because of injuries and I reckon that squad stability is actually the reason why we leak points out wide.

 

[Gronk]

Who are you?

RUDE.

That's a decent first post. Welcome aboard.

Better.

 

[hindy111]

RUDE.

Better.

f**k of merkin.

 

[84 Baby]

Credit NRL app

I think you can see from the screen freezes one of the issues in our right hand edge defence - a lack of communication, and/or trust between Simonsson, and Penisini.

For Nofoaluma's first try, you can see that Simonsson only had eyes for the ball carrier; as soon as the runner drifted wider, Simonsson got caught staring at his opposing centre, when it is arguable that the inside players had him covered.

The Tigers went to Nofoaluma, and Simonsson had to go for the intercept, and missed.

Can see in the first frame Niukore for whatever reason isn’t marked up on his man (Hastings in this case), then because of the angle the centre(?) runs, Penisini has to cheat towards Moses to help cover. The gap between Penisini and Simonsson was then too large and Simonsson has to make a choice and has to time that choice.

The basic options are:
1. Attack the ball carrier with the ranked outcomes being making the tackle, pressuring the carrier enough to make a mistake, pressuring the carrier enough he can’t just pass down to the carrier being able to draw and pass. Reasons why the winger makes this choice is worst case (up to the point of them scoring) is it forces one more pass which is riskier than not passing even if it’s a simple one and it provides a bit more time (at the expense of distance) for cover to get to his man.
2. “Stay on your man!” with the ranked outcomes being the cover gets to the carrier in time to force a pass to the winger so Simonsson has a 1 on 1, the carrier has a brain explosion down to the carrier attacking the hole and the cover having to make the tackle on the try line. Reasons why winger makes this choice are it takes the opposition winger out of the play (at the expense of himself) and cuts down the distance the cover have to… cover… (at the expense of time to do so).

It’d be simplistic if I echoed Pou and said the issue here is the middle defence (Niukore who wasn’t even playing middle on the play) wasn’t quick enough to properly number up. In this case so close to the line, Simonsson was in a damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation that was always going to rely on someone else to stop the play.

IMO though, when we are defending further away from the tryline (with the occasional “throw a different defensive shape at them”) we should be willing to concede more ground than we do on our edges, with a hold and slide defence, at least on our right side. Our cover isn’t quick enough to cover the distance from 3rd man in to wing as it is, so we should be looking to shorten the distance required rather than maximising the time allowed. Even though he is quick enough, the way Holmes defended Penisini in Darwin is almost the blueprint.

 

[84 Baby]

f**k… I’ve done a Rammy

 

[Gronk]

f**k… I’ve done a Rammy

FFS

 

[84 Baby]

Grade 2 Rammy - I’ll be out for 3 weeks

 

[Twizzle]

f**k… I’ve done a Rammy

you sucked hiney's dick ?

 

[Gary Gutful]

Grade 2 Rammy - I’ll be out for 3 weeks

Well you’ve made an early plea so maybe the jury (El Diablo) will be lenient.

 

[Eelementary]

Can see in the first frame Niukore for whatever reason isn’t marked up on his man (Hastings in this case), then because of the angle the centre(?) runs, Penisini has to cheat towards Moses to help cover. The gap between Penisini and Simonsson was then too large and Simonsson has to make a choice and has to time that choice.

The basic options are:
1. Attack the ball carrier with the ranked outcomes being making the tackle, pressuring the carrier enough to make a mistake, pressuring the carrier enough he can’t just pass down to the carrier being able to draw and pass. Reasons why the winger makes this choice is worst case (up to the point of them scoring) is it forces one more pass which is riskier than not passing even if it’s a simple one and it provides a bit more time (at the expense of distance) for cover to get to his man.
2. “Stay on your man!” with the ranked outcomes being the cover gets to the carrier in time to force a pass to the winger so Simonsson has a 1 on 1, the carrier has a brain explosion down to the carrier attacking the hole and the cover having to make the tackle on the try line. Reasons why winger makes this choice are it takes the opposition winger out of the play (at the expense of himself) and cuts down the distance the cover have to… cover… (at the expense of time to do so).

It’d be simplistic if I echoed Pou and said the issue here is the middle defence (Niukore who wasn’t even playing middle on the play) wasn’t quick enough to properly number up. In this case so close to the line, Simonsson was in a damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation that was always going to rely on someone else to stop the play.

IMO though, when we are defending further away from the tryline (with the occasional “throw a different defensive shape at them”) we should be willing to concede more ground than we do on our edges, with a hold and slide defence, at least on our right side. Our cover isn’t quick enough to cover the distance from 3rd man in to wing as it is, so we should be looking to shorten the distance required rather than maximising the time allowed. Even though he is quick enough, the way Holmes defended Penisini in Darwin is almost the blueprint.

Exactly.

It's not as simple as Penisini or Simonsson not being a good defender.