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Eels Salary Cap MK III

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The thing that's bugging me about this is that they seem to be saying that the scale of the breach is irrelevant. And that even if we were only over the cap by a few dollars, we still couldn't earn points. Is there any recourse for us in that case, aside from the court of public opinion?

I don't know if they're really saying it is completely irrelevant. I suspect that are trying to downplay the importance of claims made in their stage managed Tuesday production, where they seem to have double counted some of the impact of the breaches. I think it's fair enough to say, though, that the scale of the breach isn't the sole factor in deciding a punishment. If they have evidence of systematic and deliberate deception, even if the amounts involved aren't huge, then that's going to attract some level of meaningful punishment no matter what. And, frankly, so it should. We've had our chance to clear the decks. Just depends what that punishment is. Hard to know until we have some detail on just what it is we end out getting hit for.
 

Chipmunk

Coach
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17,412
no it's not as players salaries are nothing like performance enhancing drugs

it's a terrible analogy and he has accused the players of knowingly cheated

I didn't say I agreed with the drug cheating part, nor all of it. I do however agree with them that players and their managers are up to the eye balls in it, particularly in the Melbourne Storm case.
 
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42,876
I don't know if they're really saying it is completely irrelevant. I suspect that are trying to downplay the importance of claims made in their stage managed Tuesday production, where they seem to have double counted some of the impact of the breaches. I think it's fair enough to say, though, that the scale of the breach isn't the sole factor in deciding a punishment. If they have evidence of systematic and deliberate deception, even if the amounts involved aren't huge, then that's going to attract some level of meaningful punishment no matter what. And, frankly, so it should. We've had our chance to clear the decks. Just depends what that punishment is. Hard to know until we have some detail on just what it is we end out getting hit for.

I agree. If we knowingly and deliberately cheated, punishment is deserved, proportional to the scale. But also the cynic in me suspects that they bumped up the figure we're over by in order to introduce the notion of 'non compliant' teams being ineligible for points (Hey, they're over half a million over the cap!). The punishment seems reasonable to most, at the time. Then, if they have to agree that some of the tpas are OK, and the figure comes down a bit, well it's too late, they already have enough people believing in their cap compliant' nonsense. Or not. :)
 

phantom eel

First Grade
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6,327
As much as I think we are certainly guilty of some breaches, much what has been said and published since Tuesday is starting to mirror the farce that was Gillard/ASADA's "Blackest Day in Sport" presser.
Yep, today's PR/adviser types seem to make some really dumb choices around attracting media coverage for their clients' announcements.
 

Swiftstylez

Bench
Messages
2,858
I know him quite well. We agree on many things and we disagree on many more. He is very much his own man but he is a good man. You'd be hard fought finding a more honest and loyal friend than he.
Like all who's opinions are in the public domain, he is often hated personally for having a differing opinion on any particular subject (and there are numerous subjects he has an opinion on). I can assure you that attitude doesn't come in return. He is better than most, including you evidently.

I don't care what someone is like personally and that is not what it is about. Personally some of the greatest tyrants in history might be great to have a beer with. He could be amazing in that regard but sadly his views are what he is known for and unfortunately I did not like his afforementioned performance. It was very ad hominem and dismissive. People of his ilk need to realise that half the population of Australia have a different opinion to them and guess what, they have to debate it not just silence it. This is why Donald Trump is confounding polls and continues to do so. This NRL salary cap situation is also a good example of this. People aren't idiots and you cannot sell them shit and expect them to like the taste without question.
 
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phantom eel

First Grade
Messages
6,327
People of his ilk need to realise thay half the population have a different opinion to them and guess what, they have to debate it not just silence it. This is why Donald Trump is confounding polls and continues to do so. This NRL salary cap situation is also a good example of this. People aren't idiots and you cannot sell them shit and expect them to like the taste.
It appears that Donald Trump is quite successfully selling his shit to idiots who must like the taste....
 

Swiftstylez

Bench
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2,858
It appears that Donald Trump is quite successfully selling his shit to idiots who must like the taste....

Or it could also be the case they have already been fed enough shit and don't want to continue the run with Hilary...

And are willing to overlook his more outlandish statements (usually taken out of context) for someone that isn't an establishment drone and stands up against politically correct regressives.

Though who knows, this may seem more productive to some people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tEiguYmgxA

This isn't a political discussion, that will be all off-topic contributions I will provide.
 
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Kornstar

Coach
Messages
15,578
It appears that Donald Trump is quite successfully selling his shit to idiots who must like the taste....

There are a lot of poor people over there so therefore uneducated and they see terrorism, a Muslim president and just general lack of hope.

Trump promises them that he'll ensure he drives away Muslims, illegal immigrants and a better life just like the American Dream that is often mentioned.

I can see why he has votes and supporters.

I think he's a douche for the record!
 

Kornstar

Coach
Messages
15,578
LOL,

Also Kornstar: Uneducated people are not limited to one side of politics, believe me... and the poor are DEFINITELY not.

It's got nothing to do with side, it is to do with what someone is promising! If Hilary was offering the same then they would support her.
 

Swiftstylez

Bench
Messages
2,858
It's got nothing to do with side, it is to do with what someone is promising! If Hilary was offering the same then they would support her.

True, it will be a good popcorn viewing display of epic proportions however. The battle hasn't even started yet.
 

84 Baby

Referee
Messages
29,912
I don't know if they're really saying it is completely irrelevant. I suspect that are trying to downplay the importance of claims made in their stage managed Tuesday production, where they seem to have double counted some of the impact of the breaches. I think it's fair enough to say, though, that the scale of the breach isn't the sole factor in deciding a punishment. If they have evidence of systematic and deliberate deception, even if the amounts involved aren't huge, then that's going to attract some level of meaningful punishment no matter what. And, frankly, so it should. We've had our chance to clear the decks. Just depends what that punishment is. Hard to know until we have some detail on just what it is we end out getting hit for.

I agree. If we knowingly and deliberately cheated, punishment is deserved, proportional to the scale. But also the cynic in me suspects that they bumped up the figure we're over by in order to introduce the notion of 'non compliant' teams being ineligible for points (Hey, they're over half a million over the cap!). The punishment seems reasonable to most, at the time. Then, if they have to agree that some of the tpas are OK, and the figure comes down a bit, well it's too late, they already have enough people believing in their cap compliant' nonsense. Or not. :)
If it is the case (smelling like it is) then they've just created the ability to dock teams points just for doing some dodgy deals regardless of other salary cap compliance
 
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42,876
If it is the case (smelling like it is) then they've just created the ability to dock teams points just for doing some dodgy deals regardless of other salary cap compliance

Good point. It's potentially a far bigger stick than I thought. It may not be true, but we've already seen them attempt to link the removal of the 5 with points accrual, so it's not too big a stretch. And the timing and nature of the punishment is highly suspect. It stuffed our chances, yet left us a sliver of hope, so long as we scrambled to get 'compliant'. What would have happened if they caught us preseason? No punishment?
 
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19,397
If it is the case (smelling like it is) then they've just created the ability to dock teams points just for doing some dodgy deals regardless of other salary cap compliance

Yes, they've always had that ability....just a matter of in what circumstances they choose to use it. If it turns out that we have multiple dodgy TPAs and the curious cash payment mystery, that would represent a pretty serious issue even if we didn't end up breaking the spending limit.

Very hard to tell at this stage.
 

Joshuatheeel

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
20,191
We are probably the 3rd biggest cheats to ever get caught, but there's no doubt we are the dumbest cheats in the 108 year history of the game...

No we aren't, Warriors for $1million over the cap combined for two years around 2006 when the cap was less.

Once this is over, it won't be half as bad as reported!!
 

phantom eel

First Grade
Messages
6,327
If it is the case (smelling like it is) then they've just created the ability to dock teams points just for doing some dodgy deals regardless of other salary cap compliance
Not created... NRL always had the ability for deciding points penalties against a club in their competetion for systematically breaking rules - I think it was even raised as a possibility in the Cronulla-Dank situation before being ruled out (because there wasn't evidence that the club i.e. board members & ceo etc knew)?
 

El Diablo

Post Whore
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94,107
http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport...y/news-story/7cf5d232cae57a84cbcb925a4c9086f4

Parramatta Eels legend Ray price on salary cap woes, why Tests don’t matter and the end of loyalty
May 7, 2016 4:20pm
Robert CraddockThe Sunday Mail (Qld)

THE day Ray Price walked off the Sydney Cricket Ground after winning the 1986 premiership, Parramatta slipped into a hole from which they have never recovered.

After playing eight rugby union Tests for Australia, Price was part of a dynamic Parramatta team that won four premierships.

The last was Price’s final game.

The man called Mr Perpetual Motion does stop occasionally these days, for passengers on the buses he drives around the Gold Coast.

Today he speaks about his former’ clubs’ salary cap woes, long lost club loyalty, controversial referees and why Jack Gibson would not pick players who did not have a job.

When did you play your last game of football?

Six years ago.

Seriously, at age 57?

Yes, for the Rugby Legends. It is over-35 and it was easy. All you had to do was get fit. My only thing was that I wanted to take my wife with me and if she did not go neither would I, so we saw a lot of the world.

You were renowned as a ferocious competitor. What drove you?


I hated losing anything. Even playing in the Rugby Legends in Perth years ago a few of our guys were not fit and were into the piss two days out from the game. One of them drank nine bottles of champagne. They were not ready, we got beat and I pulled them up and said “I have not come over here to waste my time. I have come here to win’’.

How did you find those early Origin games against Queensland?

You always fired up against Queensland because they had a ref who did not know how to f---ing ref.

Ray, please tell me you are not speaking ill of the great Barry Gomersall?

I had a conversation with him before he died and he agreed with me that he did not know the rules. And he didn’t. He was hopeless. He thought he had to help Queensland get home. But NSW never took Origin as seriously as they should have for five years and by that time Queensland were away.

What’s it like driving buses on the Coast?

I enjoy it. You meet a lot of nice people. Every now and then that arsehole comes along but you can’t have a perfect life.

Do people recognise you?

A lot of people get on and call me Ray and ask me about football. It’s good.

How about living on the Coast after all those years in Sydney?

I can live anywhere. It’s beautiful here. I live in NSW (Tweed Heads). I cannot live in Queensland. I lived there for a year and I just, I don’t know ... But for some reason even though I live in NSW I have a Queensland phone number.

What is your reaction to the Parramatta salary cap scandal?

I’m disappointed. I don’t see the point in cheating. Cheats get caught. Why did they have to go so far over? If a player didn’t want to come with the initial offer, bad luck. You could do worse than pay everyone the same amount.

Can Parra recover?


I still think they can win the competition this year. I believe in them. It is the best I have seen them play for 15 years. But the board must go now.

When you played Tests they were bigger than Texas. What’s gone wrong?

I think the money has made a difference. I know people will say that sounds like sour grapes but I did not play the game for the money. It was the furthest thing from my mind.
Mick Cronin and Price with Peter Sterling and Brett Kenny after the 1986 grand final.

So money has replaced loyalty?

There is no loyalty to the club or to your mate. Sometimes you have to test it. When I was at Parra, Manly tried to buy Brett Kenny, Peter Sterling and Steve Ella. I went to each of them by themselves and said “Manly are offering you more but you don’t know if you are going to make it in that team. And we play you twice a year and if you go I will belt the shit out of you’’.

Who was the better player, Wally Lewis or Brett Kenny?

Kenny by far. The only difference between them was that Brett has never had a kicking game because he has never needed it. His speed is like that. Snap your fingers and he’s gone.

You never really got along with Wally did you?

Rephrase that. He never got along with me. When I started calling in 1986 I went to visit Sterlo and Kenny and I walked into the Test room and Wally walked out. I don’t think he liked me suggesting he was not fit and could have trained harder, but that’s me. I call a spade a spade.

What about your great Parra coach Jack Gibson. Any special memories?


He did not talk to me for a year. I wrote a book where I said he and Ron Massey were the best coaching pair and I gave them accolades. But because I mentioned Massey so much Jack said to me “did I do anything for your ----ing career?’’

Did you sort it out before he died?

I eventually saw him and said “listen you cranky old bastard I don’t give a stuff what you think I thought you were one of the best’’. From then on we were really close. Sometimes it does not pay to hold it back. He was a good bloke.

Tell me something quirky about Jack.

He would never pick anyone who did not have an outside job because he reckoned their minds would not be where they should be. I am a builder. I never did weights because I lifted things at work. It was much harder than going to the gym.

Since you and few others retired, Parra have been dreadful for 30 years. Why?

They should have been better. Parra should have easily won five comps in that time. It’s not because of lack of staff or playing capability. They haven’t tackled. This side has done one thing different to sides of the past decade, they are tackling and hurting people. They belt people who run at them.

Who did you consider the best player you played with?

Sterling. He had everything. He was not the fastest halfback but take him out of the side and that side is floundering.

You played in a rugged era. Who was the toughest of the lot?

Terry Randall, Igor, from Manly was the hardest bastard in rugby league. He got me good one time. He could bloody tackle. He put one into me and drove me over the sideline and knocked the wind out of me. I never showed him I was hurt but I packed into the scrum and I could not even push.
 

El Diablo

Post Whore
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http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...r/news-story/0cc467ce573cb860b45cfb884879f50d

Plan to privatise Parramatta Eels underway as former players get together
50 minutes ago
MATT LOGUEThe Sunday Telegraph

FORMER Macquarie Bank executive Bill Moss has officially kickstarted his bold plans for privatisation of the Parramatta Eels by meeting with a number of former players on Friday.

The Sunday Telegraph can reveal Moss organised a get together at a Sydney pub to table and discuss his ideas for the blue and golds moving forward.

As revealed during the week, the veteran administrator still harbours a strong desire to play a part in privatisation of the Eels.

Moss is currently putting together a group of ex-players, sponsors and politicians to be involved in a potential takeover bid.

It’s understood he would like to assemble some of the sharpest business minds and global companies to help the Eels become of the NRL’s powerhouse clubs.

Meanwhile, The Sunday Telegraph spoke to remaining board member Geoff Gerard last night who admitted the club was yet to think about the three independent directors they would appoint before August as requested by the NRL.

“Our first priority is getting salary cap compliant for next week, making sure we look after the welfare of our players and staff and then Kieran Foran,” Gerard said.

“We will get to the directors at a later date.”

An NRL spokesman confirmed they would play no role in appointing directors or suggesting who they should be because they believe it is entirely a matter for the Parramatta club.

Eels legend Peter Wynn was approached to take on a director role at the club by chairman Steve Sharp, but knocked it back due to lack of time.

Wynn was also asked to consider a role at the start of the season.
 
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