Eels Salary Cap MK IV

[Gronk]

Internal rats?? Whom? Seward, whom they originally hired?

If we had decent management to begin with. We would Not Be talking about this if they hadn't been such poor managers. If they hadn't been doing wrong from the start we'd be in the top 4 and we would not be talking about the media agendas. The plumber and his cohorts is who we should be going off at.

 

[El Diablo]

Internal rats?? Whom? Seward, whom they originally hired?

If we had decent management to begin with. We would Not Be talking about this if they hadn't been such poor managers. If they hadn't been doing wrong from the start we'd be in the top 4 and we would not be talking about the media agendas. The plumber and his cohorts is who we should be going off at.

#bringbackspags

 

[Delboy]

spoke oI an official from another NRL club, appears the reason there. Is little criticism from inside the game is that they are wary about the issue given the TPAs at every club

One club goes so far as to use businesses in other states to channel funds citing that they are interstate fans who want to show their support, smart but funds ar.e coming from their sponsors and those involved at the club. Looks like Seward wasnt provided with full description of how to do it, and the board possibly didn't have the contacts required

 

[Delboy]

Just to add, it's all done by phone , nothing is in print or email

That's what is so terminally stupid at how things were done, recording dodgy deals, seems unbelievably dumb given they should have known there were always people working against their appointment

 

[Poupou Escobar]

sorry about the block paragraph. For some reason it just came out that way. Tried to edit it but nothing...

ffs!

 

[Twizzle]

Sorry about the block paragraph. For some reason it just came out that way. Tried to edit it but nothing...

yeh, sure

 

[Chipmunk]

spoke oI an official from another NRL club, appears the reason there. Is little criticism from inside the game is that they are wary about the issue given the TPAs at every club

One club goes so far as to use businesses in other states to channel funds citing that they are interstate fans who want to show their support, smart but funds ar.e coming from their sponsors and those involved at the club. Looks like Seward wasnt provided with full description of how to do it, and the board possibly didn't have the contacts required

I wasn't really expecting other clubs to come to our aid. Every club is in it up to their eye balls.

 

[Chipmunk]

Just to add, it's all done by phone , nothing is in print or email

That's what is so terminally stupid at how things were done, recording dodgy deals, seems unbelievably dumb given they should have known there were always people working against their appointment

It's what incompetent people do.

 

[I'm a loser baby...]

Our situation does not set a precedent for all cases where a club is over the cap. It may set a precedent for cases that are very similar to ours (e.g. if confirmed......a concerted and systematic attempt to get around the cap illegally, with the initial investigation concluded at a time after the club had assembled its roster for the forthcoming or current year).

Well I wasn't even thinking about the ones who are over by accident, but the teams who do it deliberately and who are caught at different stages of the season for a different amount.

 

[I'm a loser baby...]

You are assuming that if, say, the breach notice was handed down in Week 3, that we'd only have been penalised 4 points. They would have decided on a minimum appropriate penalty, and may well have hit us something like 12 points anyway. It's not just punishment for being over the cap this year. It is partly punishment for apparently running a system designed to cheat the cap.

Actually I think that if they'd caught us in week 3 they would have done something like you said, and not bothered linking cap compliance with earning/keeping points. But the next team caught in week 3 might now have half a leg to stand on, even if they're over by more than us.

I think we'd earnt enough points that taking them away seemed reasonable, while they also left us a sliver of hope for the season in order to push through the changes they wished. Anyway, there's more to play out so we'll see what happens.

 

[phantom eel]

Losing face...that's the real stumbling block, here. There was a bit of a rush job by the NRL to try and get us to shit our pants and become compliant with no resistance by the Souths game. To an extent, it worked. But if resistance comes now then the one obstacle we face more than any other is the NRL losing face. Now that we've been forced to shed Peats the NRL can't let us get ourselves back into a respectable position regarding our breaches. Which is why court has always been a real option if we truly believe this whole thing has been exaggerated. We need to be figuring out a way to get this into court because the NRL are not going to just roll over and drop our penalty from 12 to 4 after accepting our interpretation of the findings. I believe our response will get us no reprieve. If we want one, we need a strategy to get this in front of a court.

Seriously, what is there to contest in a court?

You've read the (laked) trasncripts... do you think we didn't break salary cap/TPA rules?

Do you think we deserve not to lose points earned from before our squad became cap/TPA complaint at the Souths games?

Sure, the NRL need to look at its whoe cap/TAP system, including the regulation of such, but imo going to court about this with no actual grounds for arguing a lesser points penalty will just be wasting members money.

We've lost Peats, time to get the team winning again (shame to lose to South and Penrith in the dying moments) and finish this year positively. Follow the agreed governance changes of independent directors, and allow the squad to plan for a tilt at the finals in 2017.

f**k the disruption of court cases, or self-interested wankers running around to gather 100 signatures for an EGM and all of that bollocks. :crazy:

 

[Avenger]

Greenberg throughout the initial breach notice stated that we lose our points because the team is over the salary cap. $570k to be exact. Now with Choc's retirement and backdating how is a 12 point reduction warranted if the breach is half that amount. It's unprecedented and unfair. That is what we should be concentrating on. Admit the breach by all means but try and limit the damage.

 

[phantom eel]

Don't just focus on the dollar figures alone. The breach includes our breaches of the processes - not keeping arms length in negotiating TPAs, inflated invoices as covers for payments outside of the cap, and making payments to effectively guarantee TPAs.

All of that shit wasn't sorted out to the NRL's satsifaction (numerically, by the loss of Peats) until the Souths game. No way we have any case to argue we hadn't done wrong and don't deserve the penalty of losing all our points up until last weekend.

The circumstances you mention are likely why we haven't been automatically wiped out to 0 points for the whole season - it's a bit rich imo to think those factors will somehow earn us a lesser points penalty for the breaches of processes that we've committed. We (club/Board) need to let it go and move on....

 

[Avenger]

Don't just focus on the dollar figures alone. The breach includes our breaches of the processes - not keeping arms length in negotiating TPAs, inflated invoices as covers for payments outside of the cap, and making payments to effectively guarantee TPAs.

All of that shit wasn't sorted out to the NRL's satsifaction (numerically, by the loss of Peats) until the Souths game. No way we have any case to argue we hadn't done wrong and don't deserve the penalty of losing all our points up until last weekend.

The circumstances you mention are likely why we haven't been automatically wiped out to 0 points for the whole season - it's a bit rich imo to think those factors will somehow earn us a lesser points penalty for the breaches of processes that we've committed. We (club/Board) need to let it go and move on....

It's not a lay down that it's 12. That's why Greenberg keeps saying its a 'preliminary finding.' If we can mitigate or justify some of the TPA's then a reduction is a possibility.

 

[I'm a loser baby...]

The nice man just wants to fix our club. Won't you please just let him get on with it.

 

[I'm a loser baby...]

It's not a lay down that it's 12. That's why Greenberg keeps saying its a 'preliminary finding.' If we can mitigate or justify some of the TPA's then a reduction is a possibility.

Not possible mate, we were over the cap. Teams over the cap can't earn points.

 

[phantom eel]

Greenberg throughout the initial breach notice stated that we lose our points because the team is over the salary cap. $570k to be exact.

Greenburg's/NRL's initial breach notice here:
http://www.nrl.com/parramatta-salary-cap-preliminary-findings/tabid/10874/newsid/95530/default.aspx

An extract from the very start:

An investigation by the NRL's Integrity Unit has made preliminary findings that since at least 2013 the Parramatta Rugby League Club has been operating a system designed to enable it to exceed the salary cap without detection and give its team an unfair advantage.The preliminary findings from the investigation include that a series of payments were either hidden from the NRL or misrepresented as suitable for exclusion from the salary cap and that these actions were taken with the knowledge and approval of various club Directors and senior executives.
As a result of these preliminary findings the NRL has today issued the Parramatta club with a breach notice proposing that:
- The club will be fined the maximum penalty of $1 million (with $250,000 suspended if the club accelerates the governance reforms recommended by PWC within a specified time frame)
- The Parramatta Eels will be docked all competition points accumulated so far this season while their team was in breach of the salary cap. The club will be able to begin accruing points as soon as it makes the necessary changes to comply with the 2016 cap.
- The club will be stripped of its Auckland Nines competition title won earlier this year

Greenburg's/NRL's statement doesn't focus on specific amounts that we have been in breach, or indicate that if the amounts are somehow less then our penalty might also be lessened.

The penalty is about our systems and conduct over several years, which has now been corrected to the NRL's satisfaction for 2016 from the Souths game onwards.

We need to get over thinking that there has been anything unfair in the penalty, or that court action is of any worth. It will only (further) disrupt the team we all love.

 

[phantom eel]

It's not a lay down that it's 12. That's why Greenberg keeps saying its a 'preliminary finding.' If we can mitigate or justify some of the TPA's then a reduction is a possibility.

See above. If members agree to fund a court challenge, we're lunatics imo.

Yes it's a preliminary finding - but only in the sense that it's suspended until we've had the chance to respond in writing, and then the penalty will be finalised/handed down/take effect.

The announced penalty is not up for negotiation imo, and as nothing to do with arguing specific salary amounts and backdating etc. It was more about the systems and behaviours we indulged in, and we're lucky not to have been wiped for the whole season already.

 

[MarkInTheStands]

Seriously, what is there to contest in a court?

You've read the (laked) trasncripts... do you think we didn't break salary cap/TPA rules?

Do you think we deserve not to lose points earned from before our squad became cap/TPA complaint at the Souths games?

Yes I have read the transcripts, to me they read like we had a CEO go rogue and try to organise some very dodgy TPA's. However those transcripts fail to show any details about if the deals were concluded and if they were paid.

However we have "Broken" the salary cap because all our TPA's were added into the cap.

Ian has stated he believes the NRL's numbers are wrong and the actual amount over the cap is under $250K if those TPA's are included.

Now with Choc retiring, we have to wonder when his salary will be back-dated to. If back-dated to the date of the injury (12th Feb) then we can think that maybe we were under the cap all year even with the Technical Breaches mentioned.

The "Systematic" breaches of secret payments doesn't ring true from the Transcripts leaked.

 

[Avenger]

As I stated yesterday our legal team are confident.