Eels Salary Cap MK IV

[Hollywood Jesus]

Here's my rudimentary take on it that needs to be refined over and over till all the subtleties are sorted.

Above the line, take the max points for the player in the category they fit in.
Below the line is the discount.

I think that in general there is a solid framework there. My main problem would be with the small discounts for long service.

An Australian player who has seen 5 years service goes from 25 to 24?

Would it work better with a % discounts? 5-6 years = 10%, 7-9 years = 20%, 10+ years = 25%?

In your example, would that take Brisbane to 242? Not much of a difference but it's only 1 team. I have no idea how this would spread across the competition and whether it would be more sensible - just throwing out another option to toy with if you feel like it.

Also, what would be the chances of Clubs trying to influence rep teams to not pick their players? Is this possible? If someone had a connection on the selection panel...?

 

[yy_cheng]

The thing with the long service is 1 team towns and in the case of nz, 1 team country.
Didn't consider juniors either as some teams have little jnrs

 

[yy_cheng]

Btw i did that in 10 mins. It will need more input and brainstorming to get it more robust

 

[Gary Gutful]

Pretty rock solid for a 10 min effort. I am lucky if I find the excel icon within 10 min.

 

[oldmancraigy]

Mate, there's not one example of a similar system at work any where in the world as far as I know.

It's easy to say that disagreements/complaints can be addressed.....until you try to do it.

You either have a system with a bunch of administrators just 'deciding' on players' values, or one in which you have a set of arbitrary rules based on rep. games etc. What if a bloke is unavailable for rep. selection, either temporarily of permanently? Does his club continue to get him 'on the cheap'. What if a club does a great job of identifying players soon to improve? Do they get nailed when those players make the rep teams? Great incentive.

For all its faults, at least the current system is based on the amount of money that the clubs think a player is worth, and are prepared to pay them.

Preach it brother.

Points system is a simpletons solution. Nobody uses it because it wont work.

The answer is to get more complex not less.

 

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

Preach it brother.

Points system is a simpletons solution. Nobody uses it because it wont work.

The answer is to get more complex not less.

Yeh. While ever the cap is set at a level significantly below what a number of clubs are prepared to pay there's going to be trouble. And while ever one team gets a monopoly on a rugby league loving capital city, they'll be in the box seat to exploit whatever system is in place, but particularly so with payments outside the cap.

One thing that would probably help, and would probably get the ok from the PA would be to publish the total TPAs registered by a club (with no details of the players/individual amounts).

 

[Gronk]

So with a bye next week, it seems to be a good time for Toddy to pull the trigger straight after origin ?

 

[IFR33K]

So with a bye next week, it seems to be a good time for Toddy to pull the trigger straight after origin ?

Nah, he'll probably wait a few more weeks. Maximise ratings and crowds.

 

[Bandwagon]

Yeh. While ever the cap is set at a level significantly below what a number of clubs are prepared to pay there's going to be trouble. And while ever one team gets a monopoly on a rugby league loving capital city, they'll be in the box seat to exploit whatever system is in place, but particularly so with payments outside the cap.

One thing that would probably help, and would probably get the ok from the PA would be to publish the total TPAs registered by a club (with no details of the players/individual amounts).

This is what i was suggesting earlier in the thread, but i would have it go further. Transparency is the key to fighting corruption, and the TPA system is as murky as all f**k, so little wonder it's where clubs will look to gain advantage.

Personally I'd like to see a list published of all entities that provide TPA's by club, and the individual contract amounts they provide. The list could be simply in alphabetical order with the contracted amount in ascending dollar value, that way there would be little chance of drawing a correlation between player x, company y and the dollars involved. In essence it reveal no more about individual earnings than publishing the of the cap it'self.

I get the whole PA objection line, but for mine it's just a convenient argument for the NRL to not push for transparency, because it will put the current system under scrutiny when it is shown how much advantage certain clubs gain from the system, and confirm that the current arrangements are really far from the level playing field that's being proffered.

 

[Hollywood Jesus]

I am lucky if I find the excel icon within 10 min.

Is that what you call it? Your little "excel icon"?

 

[Delboy]

Recommend the videos on "www.parraeels.com.au" and check the interview with BA and the team chant

BA gives a legendary response to the question re points deduction " we'll be right " , we are in good hands undoubtedly

 

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

This is what i was suggesting earlier in the thread, but i would have it go further. Transparency is the key to fighting corruption, and the TPA system is as murky as all f**k, so little wonder it's where clubs will look to gain advantage.

Personally I'd like to see a list published of all entities that provide TPA's by club, and the individual contract amounts they provide. The list could be simply in alphabetical order with the contracted amount in ascending dollar value, that way there would be little chance of drawing a correlation between player x, company y and the dollars involved. In essence it reveal no more about individual earnings than publishing the of the cap it'self.

I get the whole PA objection line, but for mine it's just a convenient argument for the NRL to not push for transparency, because it will put the current system under scrutiny when it is shown how much advantage certain clubs gain from the system, and confirm that the current arrangements are really far from the level playing field that's being proffered.

If a club has a 1 star player, and you publish the list of individual TPAs and their value, how hard do you think it would be to work out who is getting that TPA? At least with just publishing the total value, there is a less direct link to individual player's earnings.

 

[Bandwagon]

If a club has a 1 star player, and you publish the list of individual TPAs and their value, how hard do you think it would be to work out who is getting that TPA? At least with just publishing the total value, there is a less direct link to individual player's earnings.

That would entirely depend on how many TPA's were involved, sure 1 player and 1 deal and you'd likely assume a correlation, but then in the same circumstance with just a total, you might well make the same assumption.

However, it wouldn't be all that difficult to work around the reporting obligations to ensure a reasonable amount of anonymity, for instance you could have an exemption from reporting where a club had an insignificant number of TPA's / small dollar value combination, though in saying that, that would not be my preference.

In the end, regardless of what you suggest there, it would still be only speculation, and I don't see how that is in any way different from the current practice we have of the press printing their "educated guesses" on contract numbers.

For mine it's clearly open to rorting as it is now, and it needs to be addressed. I feel that listing the names of providers and the amounts provided would go along way to doing so, because it allows for easier scrutiny, and that is a key deterrent.

 

[yy_cheng]

And what happens if they dont report the tpa?

Who is to know that some little fruit shop is depositing money into a players account or a players wifes account?

It could be in brown paper bags or free meals and accommodation somewhere or cheap apartments.

How is the nrl to know if noone whistle blows and no one reports it?


If the points system has a formula that does not require a person to judge and is open and transparent that little Chinese blokes can calculate, they will soon find out who is over the points cap.

With money, it can be hidden. Pay the player in bitcoins and probably noone can find out

 

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

And what happens if they dont report the tpa?

Who is to know that some little fruit shop is depositing money into a players account or a players wifes account?

It could be in brown paper bags or free meals and accommodation somewhere or cheap apartments.

How is the nrl to know if noone whistle blows and no one reports it?


If the points system has a formula that does not require a person to judge and is open and transparent that little Chinese blokes can calculate, they will soon find out who is over the points cap.

With money, it can be hidden. Pay the player in bitcoins and probably noone can find out

Oh sure, you can devise a set of rules underpinning a points system quite easily. But this isn't a fantasy football game, or a computer game. The points have to mean something on the field, in the real world. Under a system such as yours, how many points would, say, Blake Austin, attract? Semi Radrada? Is Jonathon Thurston really worth the same number of points as Josh Dugan? What if a club invests heavily in rising players and many of them reach Origin level next year? Do they have to start dumping players?

 

[phantom eel]

I think the point about salaries (and cap systems) versus points systems is that salaries (and their associated payments/contra/TPAs) can't always be traced and that will result in an inequity between richer vs poorer clubs (or one team towns vs Sydney clubs, or whatever).

If the NRL says that hey, we can't really police a salary cap fairly and swaps to using a points cap system, then they can have a mechanism that will better create an equitable spread of playing talent (as assessed by the particular points system used) across all of the clubs.

Of course, the quirks of teh system have to be ironed out, as per where Schubert started and where YY is developing after a 10 min Excel spreadshet. But in principle it is doable, and can maybe achieve the desired NRL result of equity betwen clubs into the future much better than a creaky and wobbly salary cap and its random policing currently does.

 

[yy_cheng]

Oh sure, you can devise a set of rules underpinning a points system quite easily. But this isn't a fantasy football game, or a computer game. The points have to mean something on the field, in the real world. Under a system such as yours, how many points would, say, Blake Austin, attract? Semi Radrada? Is Jonathon Thurston really worth the same number of points as Josh Dugan? What if a club invests heavily in rising players and many of them reach Origin level next year? Do they have to start dumping players?

Semi is an Australian rep. He would attract a fair few points.

Over time, the good players makes rep team and they will attract more points. e.g. Blake. If he doesnt then is he is a bargain one.

JT would be worth the same as Josh as they are both Aussie reps for 2 years plus in consecutive years. However, teams will offer more money to JT than say for Dugan.

The way I envisage it, there points remain the same on when the contract was signed.

So Semi will be on the same points as when he signed as a nobody i.e 3pts. He will be only on 3 points until he changes contract. So if Broncos wanted to buy him mid contract today, he will cost the Broncos 20 points as he is an aussie rep. No different to when the fact that his Salary hasnt changed for his contract

However, a team could sign someone long term to keep his points low. Then you can put in a condition that the salary can't change unless a new contract is drawn up and then the points will recalculate

 

[I'm a loser baby...]

What if you had coaches rating rival team's players? It would remove things like Semi's ineligibility for origin, and players who just can't crack the rep teams. And the difference between Myles and Thurston.

 

[Bandwagon]

And what happens if they dont report the tpa?

Who is to know that some little fruit shop is depositing money into a players account or a players wifes account?

It could be in brown paper bags or free meals and accommodation somewhere or cheap apartments.

How is the nrl to know if noone whistle blows and no one reports it?


If the points system has a formula that does not require a person to judge and is open and transparent that little Chinese blokes can calculate, they will soon find out who is over the points cap.

With money, it can be hidden. Pay the player in bitcoins and probably noone can find out

Then, if caught they face the same sanctions as is now the case. The thing is that there will always be merkins who will attempt to rort the system, that doesn't mean the system can't be improved.

As with a points based system, it'll never be perfect, however I'm with Barry on his assertion that a points based system would likely create as many issues as it solves.

 

[yy_cheng]

What if you had coaches rating rival team's players? It would remove things like Semi's ineligibility for origin, and players who just can't crack the rep teams. And the difference between Myles and Thurston.

Basically, you want to spread the talent. ALthough the Broncs are not coming first, their team is ridiculous. Nth Qld a bit too.

In my point system, the amount of 20+ point players the broncs have is ridiculous.