Eels Salary Cap MK IV

[I'm a loser baby...]

The salary doesn't come into it nor TPA. As long as your points don't go over the Max. So Brisbane would need to shed alot of players unless the point system also rewards time at the club in which it should. You could pay 1M for a low point player if you wished but I don't think anyone would. The rich teams will attract the better of the high pointed players as they could give more but then they can't have that many high pointed players as it will push them over the points cap

Gotcha. So the rich clubs can pay billions for the very best players and then fill the team up with players like Wade Graham, Valentine Holmes, Jack Bird etc, who are all very good but will probably have a low rating?

 

[Gronk]

Gotcha. So the rich clubs can pay billions for the very best players and then fill the team up with players like Wade Graham, Valentine Holmes, Jack Bird etc, who are all very good but will probably have a low rating?

Meanwhile Choc Watmough on one leg would be on a squillion points because he has rep honours coming out his arse.

 

[oldmancraigy]

As much as I have little time for Schuey (Izzy #-o) how could he possibly know what happened unless he was given access to all areas ? After all the NRL stumbled across sound files stored randomly on a HD which records damning conversations about rorts.

Schuey's brief I reckon was: Here is our roster, TPAs and retention goals - how are we tracking ? ?

How do you expect your accountant to give you the all clear when you keep a shoe box under your bed with stuff you don't want him to see ?

This is the same guy who, after we were given the breach notice, fronts the cameras and says 'nah, all good, we are under the cap guys - I'll head downtown and sort this out'

I dunno.... I was never a massive fan of his as the cap auditor, he seemed to struggle in that department, I was hopeful his appointment meant we would avoid the 4 point penalty and be all sweet - however not to be.... (I assumed his brief was therefore to make sure we were legally assembled?)

As far as shoeboxes under the bed: surely the auditor would pick that up - 'um guys, there are a bunch of things not accounted for here - who has the dockets??' The Storm or Dogs systems of rorting were sophisticated, almost washing the money. Ours seemed dull - just pretend we didn't organise TPAs, despite it being recorded in board meetings. Wouldn't the cap consultant be checking the minutes of the meetings to make sure we were sweet on TPAs?
Maybe just cashing the cheques....

 

[oldmancraigy]

Gotcha. So the rich clubs can pay billions for the very best players and then fill the team up with players like Wade Graham, Valentine Holmes, Jack Bird etc, who are all very good but will probably have a low rating?

This is precisely why it is such a crap system, and why no other major world sport uses one.

It is so dumb.

Soft caps seem to provide slightly more equity.
The biggest issue with our current system is the availability of TPAs in the teams marketplace - that's a hassle no matter which sport, very hard to police. A soft cap gives more power to base salary, and more power to the team which brought a player into first grade.
Taxing the TPAs gives the NRL a chance to share revenue on that front (but still leaves itself open to rorting - just slightly less rortable)

 

[84 Baby]

The salary doesn't come into it nor TPA. As long as your points don't go over the Max. So Brisbane would need to shed alot of players unless the point system also rewards time at the club in which it should. You could pay 1M for a low point player if you wished but I don't think anyone would. The rich teams will attract the better of the high pointed players as they could give more but then they can't have that many high pointed players as it will push them over the points cap

Gotcha. So the rich clubs can pay billions for the very best players and then fill the team up with players like Wade Graham, Valentine Holmes, Jack Bird etc, who are all very good but will probably have a low rating?

This is precisely why it is such a crap system, and why no other major world sport uses one.

It is so dumb.

FFS it would be a points system attached to a salary cap, not willy f**king nilly on player payments. See the NBL system (yes not a glowing endorsement I know) and no I don't think a points system would work (too many moving parts), but FMD it's not like it'd be worse than current model

 

[yy_cheng]

Gotcha. So the rich clubs can pay billions for the very best players and then fill the team up with players like Wade Graham, Valentine Holmes, Jack Bird etc, who are all very good but will probably have a low rating?

Yup but you could only do it for a few years or the life of their contract. Unless you sign them to long contracts

There was a report Corey Parker is on 250k plus heaps of TPA. Most of the bronco's probably are setup like that too. So the current system isn't too fair either.

You could ditch TPA but then you might get into salary constraints issues

 

[The EELiminator]

There was a report Corey Parker is on 250k plus heaps of TPA. Most of the bronco's probably are setup like that too. So the current system isn't too fair either.

he might be getting the broncos long serving player allowance as well

 

[yy_cheng]

he might be getting the broncos long serving player allowance as well

That's $300k per club

That can be shared around: Corey, Glenn, Hunt, McCollough and Thaiday.
so around $60k per player

 

[yy_cheng]

Here's my rudimentary take on it that needs to be refined over and over till all the subtleties are sorted.

Above the line, take the max points for the player in the category they fit in.
Below the line is the discount.

 

[yy_cheng]

So if we're an above middle of the road team, maybe set the cap at 150.

The broncs would need to shed like 4 of their international reps

 

[yy_cheng]

Oh this is assuming every one is off contract at end of 2016 and need to be all re-signed.

 

[oldmancraigy]

FFS it would be a points system attached to a salary cap, not willy f**king nilly on player payments. See the NBL system (yes not a glowing endorsement I know) and no I don't think a points system would work (too many moving parts), but FMD it's not like it'd be worse than current model

Of course it is worse than the current system! It'd be like having 2 systems on top of each other, neither of which works, to try and solve a problem that neither of the 2 systems addresses (TPAs).

Sorry, but it is the worst idea ever! :lol: (maybe not ever - but you get where I'm coming from)

 

[Oscarman]

There was a report Corey Parker is on 250k plus heaps of TPA. Most of the bronco's probably are setup like that too. So the current system isn't too fair either.

Most of their TPAs are through the Thoroughbreds? There is no way these are at arms length, given some of the Thoroughbreds were/are owners of the club. What a bizarre system.

 

[84 Baby]

Here's my rudimentary take on it that needs to be refined over and over till all the subtleties are sorted.

Above the line, take the max points for the player in the category they fit in.
Below the line is the discount.

Where the obvious gaping hole in the system is the Milf is same points as Penishands

 

[84 Baby]

Of course it is worse than the current system! It'd be like having 2 systems on top of each other, neither of which works, to try and solve a problem that neither of the 2 systems addresses (TPAs).

Sorry, but it is the worst idea ever! :lol: (maybe not ever - but you get where I'm coming from)

Firstly it's not that it's better, just not worse. Secondly, done well it could be better, but as I said it'd involve too many moving parts when tiered taxed cap would work simpler and better

 

[T-Boon]

While it sounds nice, a points system is just not workable. Can you imagine the furore when team X's star player is rated as being worth $200k less than the average bogan reckons he's (his) worth?

You are asking bureaucrats to determine what is effectively a market value of a player (whether you express that in $$ or points). The Soviets thought they could do it.....

You have always been hard core against this Barry. I get that you are utterly convinced you are right. But you need to consider the possibility that you are wrong.
Schubert thinks it is worth looking at and he knows a lot more about this stuff than you do. I think it is worth looking at. Its not as complicated as you say.
There are going to be issues debate, complaints, disagreements. But they can all be addressed and it is way better than the current system which is just ripe for cheating (and not just by way of TPA's).
Other systems don't need to consider this as they have the draft and free agency.

 

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

You have always been hard core against this Barry. I get that you are utterly convinced you are right. But you need to consider the possibility that you are wrong.
Schubert thinks it is worth looking at and he knows a lot more about this stuff than you do. I think it is worth looking at. Its not as complicated as you say.
There are going to be issues debate, complaints, disagreements. But they can all be addressed and it is way better than the current system which is just ripe for cheating (and not just by way of TPA's).
Other systems don't need to consider this as they have the draft and free agency.

Mate, there's not one example of a similar system at work any where in the world as far as I know.

It's easy to say that disagreements/complaints can be addressed.....until you try to do it.

You either have a system with a bunch of administrators just 'deciding' on players' values, or one in which you have a set of arbitrary rules based on rep. games etc. What if a bloke is unavailable for rep. selection, either temporarily of permanently? Does his club continue to get him 'on the cheap'. What if a club does a great job of identifying players soon to improve? Do they get nailed when those players make the rep teams? Great incentive.

For all its faults, at least the current system is based on the amount of money that the clubs think a player is worth, and are prepared to pay them.

 

[yy_cheng]

Where the obvious gaping hole in the system is the Milf is same points as Penishands

Yeah, there are always going to be bargains

Qld halves will have low points until cron and jt retires. Ppl like milf and norman because they cant crack origin

But if milf wasnt banned and an injury would get him in and his points will go up

Peni points probably wont go up much over time

Milf has only playes about 90 games and has not represented qld nor Australia

 

[yy_cheng]

Mate, there's not one example of a similar system at work any where in the world as far as I know.

It's easy to say that disagreements/complaints can be addressed.....until you try to do it.

You either have a system with a bunch of administrators just 'deciding' on players' values, or one in which you have a set of arbitrary rules based on rep. games etc. What if a bloke is unavailable for rep. selection, either temporarily of permanently? Does his club continue to get him 'on the cheap'. What if a club does a great job of identifying players soon to improve? Do they get nailed when those players make the rep teams? Great incentive.

For all its faults, at least the current system is based on the amount of money that the clubs think a player is worth, and are prepared to pay them.

Yup in including paying them illegally

 

[Dibs]

Mate, there's not one example of a similar system at work any where in the world as far as I know.

It's easy to say that disagreements/complaints can be addressed.....until you try to do it.

You either have a system with a bunch of administrators just 'deciding' on players' values, or one in which you have a set of arbitrary rules based on rep. games etc. What if a bloke is unavailable for rep. selection, either temporarily of permanently? Does his club continue to get him 'on the cheap'. What if a club does a great job of identifying players soon to improve? Do they get nailed when those players make the rep teams? Great incentive.

For all its faults, at least the current system is based on the amount of money that the clubs think a player is worth, and are prepared to pay them.

One problem for using a system that uses rep games to value a player is when the 2nd best player in a position (and maybe the difference is insignificant) is valued at a lot less cause he never gets picked. I'd like to see a different system or changes to what we have but I don't think there is something out there that won't have problems