Elliott cleaning house

[vvvrulz]

Packer was threatening to walk out on Bluey too wasn't he?
He just sounds like a difficult person to manage in general.

 

[Micistm]

I guess only time will tell.
I think the culture of not being seen to try too hard is well entrenched here. Casual is king.
Hope ME can solve it. At least he has recognised it.

Totally agree. There are some I'd be disappointed to lose, but IMO no player is bigger than the team. Wayne Bennett realised that early on at the Broncs by letting a few big names (Esp King Wally himself) go for the sake of building the team environment.
The Warriors have been a frustrating team for supporters for a long time, they have been lucky enough to be blest with a loyal core that stick with them no matter how bad their attitude gets. IMO ME deserves the chance to sort this out and I hope fans understand that and get behind him even if he has to get rid of a couple of crowd faves for the good of the team and future. IMO fans deserve better than some of the lazy shit dished up this year. Thought they had turned a corner but it seems their attitude is like a KFC special and only for a limited time

 

[hitman82]

Totally agree. There are some I'd be disappointed to lose, but IMO no player is bigger than the team. Wayne Bennett realised that early on at the Broncs by letting a few big names (Esp King Wally himself) go for the sake of building the team environment.
The Warriors have been a frustrating team for supporters for a long time, they have been lucky enough to be blest with a loyal core that stick with them no matter how bad their attitude gets. IMO ME deserves the chance to sort this out and I hope fans understand that and get behind him even if he has to get rid of a couple of crowd faves for the good of the team and future. IMO fans deserve better than some of the lazy shit dished up this year. Thought they had turned a corner but it seems their attitude is like a KFC special and only for a limited time

Agreed all round. It was a nice thought, that our attitude and culture problems could simply be fixed and we could retain our roster. But in reality, there need to be changes. We've had a lot of time for various resentments and cliques to build; need to be players removed in order to fix them. I am fine with that - even though it looks like my favourite player is number one in the clean-out priority list haha.

 

[KeepingTheFaith]

I do wonder how much injury has had an impact on Packers attitude. Must be frustrating always breaking down and at some point you must loose motivation.

Either way, time for him to go.

 

[Meth]

We need a beast of a prop to compliment Snowden - they are potentially a fantastic pairing.

Didn't they have a dust up this year?

 

[TheDMC]

Elliot is cleaning the bathroom because of a few drips on the floor. Leaky house is the problem and he aint allowed to touch that.

 

[Cold Roses]

Elliot is cleaning the bathroom because of a few drips on the floor. Leaky house is the problem and he aint allowed to touch that.

You're so spot on with this it isn't funny. A change of culture isn't going to start at the bottom. Start with Scurrah and work downwards.

 

[Micistm]

Agreed all round. It was a nice thought, that our attitude and culture problems could simply be fixed and we could retain our roster. But in reality, there need to be changes. We've had a lot of time for various resentments and cliques to build; need to be players removed in order to fix them. I am fine with that - even though it looks like my favourite player is number one in the clean-out priority list haha.

Indeed. Tail wagging the dog is never good. Forget this 'best sport franchise in the Southern Hemisphere' bragging crap, let's just get the Warriors team up to the professionalism of the best NRL teams first:lol:

 

[KeepingTheFaith]

You're so spot on with this it isn't funny. A change of culture isn't going to start at the bottom. Start with Scurrah and work downwards.

While it can be helpful if it starts at the top, Manly have shown consistently that if you have a mentally strong coach and playing group you can prosper regardless of other factors.

Elliott has no control over what happens at the top so I think he's attempting to achieve the latter by weeding out those who mentally he feels don't have it.

 

[Cold Roses]

While it can be helpful if it starts at the top, Manly have shown consistently that if you have a mentally strong coach and playing group you can prosper regardless of other factors.

Elliott has no control over what happens at the top so I think he's attempting to achieve the latter by weeding out those who mentally he feels don't have it.

Good point. I agree. However Manly have the advantage over us of having a long history of demanding success and professionalism (Despite some recent boardroom problems). Their mentally strong players and coach are a symptom of a club that as a whole, demands success and doesn't tolerate failiure. A coach can only be empowered by the structure supporting him, and in my view this has been woefully lacking at The Warriors for long periods in our history.

I don't in fact necessarily disagree with you. A player clean out may not be a bad thing. But it still frustrates me that player misbehaviour and 'revolts' are becoming a common recurrence at our club. I find it hard to believe that it is always the coaches fault.

 

[KeepingTheFaith]

The problems weren't really that recent, they've been around for quite some time. Of course there was the whole Northern Eagles fiasco as well. The core group of players Manly have is definitely an advantage in though.

And you're right, it's not the coaches fault, but it's easier to sack one coach than a dozen players - unless you've just had two pretty ordinary years and the higher ups have had their blinkers taken off.

I think one thing that has hurt us in regards to attitudes is the way we have created pathways from U20 to first grade. If Ackland and Elliott are at odds with each other for example, and the younger players spend the majority of their time with Ackland, what do you think their attitude to Elliott is more likely to be?

Same goes for Iro not getting the job after Cleary left and the player tweets. I'm not saying being close to their U20's coach is a bad thing, but allowing the U20's coach to have free reign with no thoughts to the first grade needs of the Warriors is not only detrimental to the club as a whole but it doesn't help the players cope when they're suddenly transitioned to first grade and everything changes.

The players seem like they would rather spend their time hanging with their mates throwing the footy around than putting in the hard yards to actually win a premiership. The more they get shifted up and down between grades and made to realise that they're competing with every other player for a first grade spot, the better off they and the team as a whole will be.

All up I'm curious about the moves the Warriors are making. A little nervous that it will automatically make next year a dreaded "rebuilding year". Long term though I think we're headed in the right direction.

 

[Skinner]

Elliot is cleaning the bathroom because of a few drips on the floor. Leaky house is the problem and he aint allowed to touch that.

Jeez, I think you got that in one mate - bang on.

 

[ozbash]

I think one thing that has hurt us in regards to attitudes is the way we have created pathways from U20 to first grade. If Ackland and Elliott are at odds with each other for example, and the younger players spend the majority of their time with Ackland, what do you think their attitude to Elliott is more likely to be?

Same goes for Iro not getting the job after Cleary left and the player tweets. I'm not saying being close to their U20's coach is a bad thing, but allowing the U20's coach to have free reign with no thoughts to the first grade needs of the Warriors is not only detrimental to the club as a whole but it doesn't help the players cope when they're suddenly transitioned to first grade and everything changes.

probably true, but to me its understandable loyalty from the U20 players towards their coach.

Ackland has the trophies in the cabinet, Elliot walks into the club and starts waving a big stick and everyone gets their backs up...

poor management if you ask me, and it will affect the club in the future.

Ivan worked WITH Ackland, that was the difference.

 

[KeepingTheFaith]

Did Ivan really work with Ackland or did Ackland just not have reason to resist because he got what he wanted, which was free reign to try and win the U20's trophy?

If Ivan suddenly decided to put Johnson, Fish, Lousi etc in the Vulcans for an extended period instead of letting them go for an U20's title would it have been such a good relationship?

The pathway to first grade wasn't that great when Ivan was here either, the big difference being the core group of senior players we had to help with the transition (Price, Wiki, Luck etc) for the younger guys. That's what we're really missing out on at the moment.

Certainly not saying Elliott is doing the right thing, tbh I have no idea and none of us will know for sure until it's all said and done. There's no doubt in my mind though that our pathway to first grade was seriously flawed and that appeared from the outside to cause a fair bit of friction for Elliott and Ackland (or perhaps just ignited the friction that was already there.)

 

[Cold Roses]

I think one thing that has hurt us in regards to attitudes is the way we have created pathways from U20 to first grade. If Ackland and Elliott are at odds with each other for example, and the younger players spend the majority of their time with Ackland, what do you think their attitude to Elliott is more likely to be?

Same goes for Iro not getting the job after Cleary left and the player tweets. I'm not saying being close to their U20's coach is a bad thing, but allowing the U20's coach to have free reign with no thoughts to the first grade needs of the Warriors is not only detrimental to the club as a whole but it doesn't help the players cope when they're suddenly transitioned to first grade and everything changes.

The players seem like they would rather spend their time hanging with their mates throwing the footy around than putting in the hard yards to actually win a premiership. The more they get shifted up and down between grades and made to realise that they're competing with every other player for a first grade spot, the better off they and the team as a whole will be.

Once again, I couldn't agree more. But the problem is changing this culture and attitude throughout the entire club. Not just within the playing and coaching ranks.

Strong leadership should put paid to this sort of crap both on and off the field. It should never be allowed to eventuate.

I don't believe we have that leadership. Guys like Steve Price being more involved would go a long way towards changing this attitude.

 

[ozbash]

Once again, I couldn't agree more. But the problem is changing this culture and attitude throughout the entire club. Not just within the playing and coaching ranks.

Strong leadership should put paid to this sort of crap both on and off the field. It should never be allowed to eventuate.

I don't believe we have that leadership. Guys like Steve Price being more involved would go a long way towards changing this attitude.

Don't go along with this, at all.

How many premierships have our U20's won?
How many G/Finals ?
How many top 8's ?

I would say the Juniors are without doubt, the best coached,motivated, successful team in the Toyota/Holden Cups comp..

 

[Diesel]

Does Steve Price have a role at the Warriors such as development or welfare?

He seems to be the type of person IMO which should be working in upper management at the club

 

[KeepingTheFaith]

Best coached. :lol: Lost me there.

How many fullbacks have we had since Fish promoted? Omar, developing as a winger, lets throw him to fullback, Hiku, Hukatai, Lolohea, Fustiua.

The first grade side is struggling for wing depth and Ackland would rather play musical chairs with the fullback position than actually give any of them a genuine shot to develop in a single position.

Oh wait though, musical chairs allows us to throw Likiliki onto the wing.

Ackland is successful because he's consistently got a top 4 squad in talent every year, but that didn't stop us from loosing to the Eels, Gold Coast, Newcastle, St George, and drawing with Manly, 5 of the bottom 6 teams. Seems like this team has the same mental flaws as the first grade side except when they show up to play they have the talent edge to make a difference. A well coached, motivated team don't let games like that slip on a regular basis.

There's been zero attention paid to actual player development and proper preparation for first grade. That's the fatal flaw, and as much as I enjoyed the U20's wins on GF day, it doesn't change what I've said. Development has been shit.

 

[Cold Roses]

Don't go along with this, at all.

How many premierships have our U20's won?
How many G/Finals ?
How many top 8's ?

I would say the Juniors are without doubt, the best coached,motivated, successful team in the Toyota/Holden Cups comp..

A lot of what I would say was just covered by KTF in the above post.

Simply put, I don't consider the standard of the under 20's comp to be of a high enough level to consider what they have done a success in terms of the Warriors as a CLUB. Emphasis on club.

I in no way begrudge them their achievements over the last 4 or so years, and this Sunday I'll be in front of the tv cheering them on and hoping they win. But for me, the jury is still out on how successful the under 20's comp is going to be in mentally preparing these guys for first grade. That game against the Bulldogs last week was almost farcical in the way defences fell apart and each team went on extended scoring sprees.

And just look at the crap that some of our most recent graduates are carrying on with.

Winning a few lower level comps doesn't mean we are progressing well as a club in my eyes.

 

[Cold Roses]

Does Steve Price have a role at the Warriors such as development or welfare?

He seems to be the type of person IMO which should be working in upper management at the club

Apparently not. And I for one can't understand why.

Can someone shed any light on this? Is there still bad blood from his being relieved of the captaincy? Or some other more innocent explanation?