What's new
The Front Row Forums

Register a free account today to become a member of the world's largest Rugby League discussion forum! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

English lower leagues

roughyedspud

Coach
Messages
12,181
hindsight's a wonderful thing,but i said this 6-7 years ago..


the RFL should have got involved with the london 2012 legacy organisation and propose taking over one of two the hockey venues and reconfigured it as a base for rugby league in london
 

CC_Roosters

First Grade
Messages
5,221
They are planning to move again for 2016....

I do question the worth of their continued existence tbh, the only reason is the final proffesional step in the pathway but any half decent player is going to head north or union at the first call anyway. The game hasnt received any more or less headlines in the south for their demise to second division. The club has just been to nomadic and doesnt really belong to any part of london so they have no local core support to draw on.

Why are they are moving from barnet? And any rumours on were too?
 

nadera78

Juniors
Messages
2,233
Just to expand upon the Broncos crowd and general situation - the club has all but confirmed they are moving to play at a venue in Ealing, which would be annoying in itself if it were simply yet another move. But this is worse than that because Ealing Trailfinders RU club essentially play in a field with a pavilion that has a few seats attached to it. They, like the Broncos, only exist because a rich owner puts in the requisite funding to keep them going as a pro club playing in a mostly semi-pro competition. The difference between the two clubs is that Trailfinders have never known anything else - the Broncos once had a hardcore of 3,000 and another 2,000 or so floaters who'd come and go depending on form, stadium, opposition, etc.

Over the last few years fans have been forced away (not left the club, but forced away!) by the actions of the owner. This season it's been down to the absolutely loyalist of the loyal, probably 5 or 600. With the news filtering through of the move to a park next season even more have finally given up the ghost. The 350 who attended on saturday is more or less all that's left.

There are some people who won't have a bad word said about David Hughes because of the money he's put in - something like £18/20million at this point. But the truth is that he's done an amazing job of destroying that club. For all that money there is absolutely nothing to show for it. Nothing. For a fraction of that money - perhaps 5 or 6 million - he could have bought a non-league football club (Hayes & Yeading / Tooting & Mitcham / Harrow Borough / Dulwich Hamlet / Sutton United / Staines Town) all of whom own their own stadia, and added a stand or two to take it up to 6/8,000 capacity. Job done, build roots in a community and let the club grow. Instead he poured all that dosh into players' contracts, sh** coaching appointments, Chief Executives who actively damaged the club, and yet not a single penny spent on marketing(!) and sat back to play Lord of the Manor.

Like I've said a million times before, you literally could not find a worse run sports club on the face of the planet. Everything you could do to alienate a fanbase and damage a club - they did it.
 

CC_Roosters

First Grade
Messages
5,221
Just to expand upon the Broncos crowd and general situation - the club has all but confirmed they are moving to play at a venue in Ealing, which would be annoying in itself if it were simply yet another move. But this is worse than that because Ealing Trailfinders RU club essentially play in a field with a pavilion that has a few seats attached to it. They, like the Broncos, only exist because a rich owner puts in the requisite funding to keep them going as a pro club playing in a mostly semi-pro competition. The difference between the two clubs is that Trailfinders have never known anything else - the Broncos once had a hardcore of 3,000 and another 2,000 or so floaters who'd come and go depending on form, stadium, opposition, etc.

Over the last few years fans have been forced away (not left the club, but forced away!) by the actions of the owner. This season it's been down to the absolutely loyalist of the loyal, probably 5 or 600. With the news filtering through of the move to a park next season even more have finally given up the ghost. The 350 who attended on saturday is more or less all that's left.

There are some people who won't have a bad word said about David Hughes because of the money he's put in - something like £18/20million at this point. But the truth is that he's done an amazing job of destroying that club. For all that money there is absolutely nothing to show for it. Nothing. For a fraction of that money - perhaps 5 or 6 million - he could have bought a non-league football club (Hayes & Yeading / Tooting & Mitcham / Harrow Borough / Dulwich Hamlet / Sutton United / Staines Town) all of whom own their own stadia, and added a stand or two to take it up to 6/8,000 capacity. Job done, build roots in a community and let the club grow. Instead he poured all that dosh into players' contracts, sh** coaching appointments, Chief Executives who actively damaged the club, and yet not a single penny spent on marketing(!) and sat back to play Lord of the Manor.

Like I've said a million times before, you literally could not find a worse run sports club on the face of the planet. Everything you could do to alienate a fanbase and damage a club - they did it.

Do you see them winding up into oblivion? And is there any prospect of a current (or future) community based club transitioning to a professional setup in London? I know Hemel and the skolars are greater London sides but both are really semi pro community clubs at this stage
 

langpark

First Grade
Messages
5,867
Good insight there Nadera!

I worry too about some of the League One teams. Next year there will be 15 teams and I can't help but feel that one could come undone very soon. We've already heard Scorpions are not in the best of shape and then there's Hemel, who are only just attracting 3-digit crowds. Plus, these League One sides are burdened with much higher travel costs than any Super League or Championship team.
 

CC_Roosters

First Grade
Messages
5,221
Good insight there Nadera!

I worry too about some of the League One teams. Next year there will be 15 teams and I can't help but feel that one could come undone very soon. We've already heard Scorpions are not in the best of shape and then there's Hemel, who are only just attracting 3-digit crowds. Plus, these League One sides are burdened with much higher travel costs than any Super League or Championship team.

Yeah not sure about the sustainability of league one in its current format. I have been thinking that 3 tiers of 12 teams at the national level is sufficient i.e SL, KPC and L1.

The southern clubs in L1 that cannot cut it would obviously find a home in conference south strengthening that competition. I am not sure if their is any official process or licensing system between the national conference leagues and league 1 but it seems to me that there should be.

But who knows they may well stay where they are and build there club and fan base within league one. One thing that would help is officially splitting it into league one north and south divisions imo. Have some sort of playoff system between the two for promotion to the championship. Would also isolate the southern clubs from the hammerings they often get from the establish clubs while keeping them at the same level and access to same RFL grants etc...
 

Evil Homer

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
7,178
But who knows they may well stay where they are and build there club and fan base within league one. One thing that would help is officially splitting it into league one north and south divisions imo. Have some sort of playoff system between the two for promotion to the championship. Would also isolate the southern clubs from the hammerings they often get from the establish clubs while keeping them at the same level and access to same RFL grants etc...
No it wouldn't, it would just isolate them completely. Worst possible idea for that league.
 

CC_Roosters

First Grade
Messages
5,221
No it wouldn't, it would just isolate them completely. Worst possible idea for that league.

I don't how 70-4 scorelines most weeks is helping anybody, especially the development of Hemel, Skolars, South wales etc... They might need 10 years to find there feet at that level and I don't think any of those clubs has that sort of life span on the end of those scores week in week out

Best to create more levels in the pyramid and set in stone the mechanisms for rising and falling in the pyramid then having teams blatantly out of their depth with no way out except to withdraw at some point
 

nadera78

Juniors
Messages
2,233
Do you see them winding up into oblivion? And is there any prospect of a current (or future) community based club transitioning to a professional setup in London? I know Hemel and the skolars are greater London sides but both are really semi pro community clubs at this stage

It's all over for the Broncos, as far as I can see. Andrew Henderson was interviewed last week and this move was discussed - he all but admitted that Hughes was looking to reduce his financial input and that the'd found a cheap venue to enable that. Trouble is, no-one at the club seems to realise just how bad things have become within the fanbase. They think they've hit rock bottom but there's more to come. Moving to a park with a pavilion is just driving even the diehards away.

Hemel and Skolars, IMO at any rate, would be better off out leaving the semi-pro game. Both clubs have actually regressed in recent years - as actual clubs not just senior sides - and from my limited insight into those clubs it seems to me that they are putting so much time, effort and resources into the senior side that the rest is suffering. Skolars reserve side is regularly missing fixtures, Hemel's youths have gone backwards, it's all just too messy.

As to the wider game in London and surrounds, it's in a real mess tbh. The RFL had a big funding cut a couple of years back and so pruned all their development staff. London's got just a couple of staff left and a lot of the fledgling community clubs have withered since then. It takes a huge amount of work to keep these clubs going, and without the development officers there just isn't the bedrock of support needed. In Wigan or wherever, the community clubs are vital to local life, there's fundraising and volunteering, etc. But in London the game just doesn't have that history - if the development officers had been around another decade or so, and the kids who'd come through playing locally were then parents themselves and taking their kids along to play then they might have had a better chance. But the roots were just too weak to survive the cut off in funding.

If I'm honest I really don't see much of a future for the game down here, except for a handful of struggling enthusiasts. We're actually pretty much back to the same position as when I first started watching RL in 1993. The tragedy of it all is that we were so close to making it stick - just look at the number of Londoners scattered around SL.
 

CC_Roosters

First Grade
Messages
5,221
It's all over for the Broncos, as far as I can see. Andrew Henderson was interviewed last week and this move was discussed - he all but admitted that Hughes was looking to reduce his financial input and that the'd found a cheap venue to enable that. Trouble is, no-one at the club seems to realise just how bad things have become within the fanbase. They think they've hit rock bottom but there's more to come. Moving to a park with a pavilion is just driving even the diehards away.

Hemel and Skolars, IMO at any rate, would be better off out leaving the semi-pro game. Both clubs have actually regressed in recent years - as actual clubs not just senior sides - and from my limited insight into those clubs it seems to me that they are putting so much time, effort and resources into the senior side that the rest is suffering. Skolars reserve side is regularly missing fixtures, Hemel's youths have gone backwards, it's all just too messy.

As to the wider game in London and surrounds, it's in a real mess tbh. The RFL had a big funding cut a couple of years back and so pruned all their development staff. London's got just a couple of staff left and a lot of the fledgling community clubs have withered since then. It takes a huge amount of work to keep these clubs going, and without the development officers there just isn't the bedrock of support needed. In Wigan or wherever, the community clubs are vital to local life, there's fundraising and volunteering, etc. But in London the game just doesn't have that history - if the development officers had been around another decade or so, and the kids who'd come through playing locally were then parents themselves and taking their kids along to play then they might have had a better chance. But the roots were just too weak to survive the cut off in funding.

If I'm honest I really don't see much of a future for the game down here, except for a handful of struggling enthusiasts. We're actually pretty much back to the same position as when I first started watching RL in 1993. The tragedy of it all is that we were so close to making it stick - just look at the number of Londoners scattered around SL.

I read a few months ago about changes to how sport england money was being allocated do you know if this will help or hinder the game in the area? Wouldnt a parachute payment from the ARLC future fund be nice!
 

Evil Homer

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
7,178
More positive stadium news as York finally agree a deal to play at the new 8,000 capacity Community Stadium starting in 2017, and will play at York City FC's stadium in the meantime. Pretty ridiculous that it's taken this long to get sorted to be honest but at least the issue is now resolved.
 

CC_Roosters

First Grade
Messages
5,221
More positive stadium news as York finally agree a deal to play at the new 8,000 capacity Community Stadium starting in 2017, and will play at York City FC's stadium in the meantime. Pretty ridiculous that it's taken this long to get sorted to be honest but at least the issue is now resolved.

Yes seen that great news. York is a reasonably sized city so would be great to see the club flourish and climb the leagues.
 

roughyedspud

Coach
Messages
12,181
Do you support both?

Im RL through and through...ive been to latics games,i want them to do well...when pressed i say im kinda a liverpool fan but im more a rugby league fan..

I am a fan of one stadium for both oldham teams though and provisions should have been made years ago..atone point during the mid 2000s oldham council actually owned boundary park...which makes the situation all the more frustrating
 

Latest posts

Top