Expansion plans cloudy: NRL

[Perth Red]

I think it is critically important that the 16 clubs that we have got are not going to easily deal with expansion,''

WTF does that mean?????

Ay least the NRL now have the economic crisis to blame for sitting on their ar5es and doing nothing to expand the game!

 

[adamkungl]

I agree with Nemesis too. I wouldn't go to AFL or Yawnion, but the NRL would NEVER get a single cent from me, ever again, in any form, at any level. I would still watch park football. That's it.

Also, its good to see that they are actually thinking and considering expansions in sensible places, and don't seem to be contemplating a Sydney cull.
That's 2 positive Gallop articles in about 2 weeks....has he turned over a new leaf in 09?

 

[Perth Red]

It's easy to say that now but 5 years down the line? your kids?

How bad is the NRL with no Newtown in it?

 

[KHunt]

It's easy to say that now but 5 years down the line? your kids?

How bad is the NRL with no Newtown in it?

Shocking. Still has a huge affect today.

Just look at North Sydney and South Sydney and what effect it did ripping into foundation clubs with thousands of fans and 90 years of history just to fit a TV schedule.

 

[Miller was a legend]

IMO you understimate what we are saying. I assume being in WA you can't really understand what it is to be a sydneysider brought up on the game and your team.

If you understood, you would know without any doubt in your mind that if a club like souths was pulling say 16,000 fans and roosters 16,000 and one disappeared, you would get no more at a game in the remaining nearby club. That is a fact, Illawarra/Stgeorge merger is a good example. The merged club today still pulls very good home and away crowds, but not really any more than they did as the StGeorge stand alone club. Fans do show their distain in Sydney by walking away, forever

 

[Joker's Wild]

Burying ours heads in the sand won't make the AFL threat go away. The threat is very real and getting rid of Sydney RL teams will only make it easier for AFL to spread it roots here.

You seem to forget that the Rugby League clubs fund both junior teams and many of the NRL teams (at least the ones that aren't privatised), so if a Leagues club or it's football club folds, the junior teams associated with that club will also disappear.... and if those juniors no longer have a career path to the elite level of the sport, their only choice is to switch codes, play another sport entirely, or not play any sport at all.

Utter bullsh*t Nemesis. Souths juniors for example is a massive club and would not be effected if the Bunnies went under as they give money to the NRL side, not the other way around. Panthers also operates at massive profits all year round and would only feel minimum loss, if at all, if the Chocos had to pull out of the NRL and they supply funding to tonnes of the Penrith jr comp.

Most RL juniors may switch to Union due to most of the skills being similar but do you seriously think that 16 and 17 yo front rowers, halfbacks and hookers are going to switch to AFL simply because the NRL club above them, not their jr club, is no longer in the top tier comp. Give me a break mate.

Besides Im not talking about getting rid of teams but if they are simply not able to front the costs of running a team in the NRL then they will inevitably fall. This would not be the fault of the NRL admin but of the clubs admin themselves so directing hate towards the game if your team disappears would be rediculous.

I said it before and I said it again, fans will have no reason to whinge if they support their clubs in every way they can by buying memberships, merch and by getting to games. If clubs keep the funding coming in and are able to stay afloat then everybody wins. Seems the real threat to our game is not other codes but from the defeatist attitudes from our own fan base.

 

[Perth Red]

IMO you understimate what we are saying. I assume being in WA you can't really understand what it is to be a sydneysider brought up on the game and your team.

If you understood, you would know without any doubt in your mind that if a club like souths was pulling say 16,000 fans and roosters 16,000 and one disappeared, you would get no more at a game in the remaining nearby club. That is a fact, Illawarra/Stgeorge merger is a good example. The merged club today still pulls very good home and away crowds, but not really any more than they did as the StGeorge stand alone club. Fans do show their distain in Sydney by walking away, forever

I'm from a city where RL is god and families never speak to each other because of inter club marriages! so yes I know what it is like to be a passionate life long fan of a club. I also am realistic to know that if RL is to evolve to the next level changes will inevitably happen. Do I want to see Sydney clubs go under? No. Do i want to see the NRl being held back by clubs that can't keep up? No. Do I think the NRL needs 9 Sydney clubs to thrive? No. Do I think the NRL can thrive with 9 Sydney clubs, I am unsure, Do I think it is a good thing a comp is made up of 9/16 clubs from one city? Not really.

 

[Miller was a legend]

I'm from a city where RL is god and families never speak to each other because of inter club marriages! so yes I know what it is like to be a passionate life long fan of a club. I also am realistic to know that if RL is to evolve to the next level changes will inevitably happen. Do I want to see Sydney clubs go under? No. Do i want to see the NRl being held back by clubs that can't keep up? No. Do I think the NRL needs 9 Sydney clubs to thrive? No. Do I think the NRL can thrive with 9 Sydney clubs, I am unsure, Do I think it is a good thing a comp is made up of 9/16 clubs from one city? Not really.

I think you think to much! Stop you will give yourself a headache

 

[mightybears]

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/nrl/story/0,27074,25075140-5016545,00.html

At least dangerous dave is mentioning the CC word these days

 

[mightybears]

I cannot speak for others directly but the sentiment I have generally heard and my own is that if our club folded, I may watch games but I will never be a member, buy other club gear or pay to go to a game. It just would never be the same again when you have spent the best part of your life supporting, defending and loving one club.

No matter what anyone says, if you cannot get excited and look forward to your team running out to take on those clubs with which history has created significant rivalry, the game will have lost it's appeal to many of us fans.

Don't underestimate the impact of clubs disappearing

testify

 

[Nemesis]

Utter bullsh*t Nemesis. Souths juniors for example is a massive club and would not be effected if the Bunnies went under as they give money to the NRL side, not the other way around. Panthers also operates at massive profits all year round and would only feel minimum loss, if at all, if the Chocos had to pull out of the NRL and they supply funding to tonnes of the Penrith jr comp.

Most RL juniors may switch to Union due to most of the skills being similar but do you seriously think that 16 and 17 yo front rowers, halfbacks and hookers are going to switch to AFL simply because the NRL club above them, not their jr club, is no longer in the top tier comp. Give me a break mate.

Besides Im not talking about getting rid of teams but if they are simply not able to front the costs of running a team in the NRL then they will inevitably fall. This would not be the fault of the NRL admin but of the clubs admin themselves so directing hate towards the game if your team disappears would be rediculous.

I said it before and I said it again, fans will have no reason to whinge if they support their clubs in every way they can by buying memberships, merch and by getting to games. If clubs keep the funding coming in and are able to stay afloat then everybody wins. Seems the real threat to our game is not other codes but from the defeatist attitudes from our own fan base.

You are missing the whole point JW... Rugby League can't be expanded at the expense of Sydney teams, full stop. That experiment (Super League) has already been tried and failed and it's taken RL many years to recover. The game must be expanded very carefully and in stages or we risk killing it altogether. Changing the game from it's NSW centric tribal nature to a truly national competition will probably take at least another 10-15 years.

Like it or not, 25% of Australia's population live in Sydney and Sydney is the "heart" of Rugby League. In the current economic crisis, Sydney teams are vulnerable and if too much strain is placed on the "heart" by diverting scarce NRL resources and funds away from it and towards national expansion, the heart may begin to die, taking the rest of the body with it.

Right now, rather than expand the game nationally, the NRL is trying to shore up the position of Sydney clubs, whilst the Sydney clubs themselves attempt to grow their memberships, sponsorships, merchandise sales and other revenue streams.

Imo this is the correct course of action at the moment and Gallop seems to agree. If you have a better solution, then perhaps you should challenge Gallop for the NRL CEO position.

 

[Cloud9]

Market research is required when submitting a business proposal.
Its a different mind set over in Sydney. A lot of them would feel sodomised if their club was dissolved, vowing never to return to the game. They are very territorial. You visit the shire, manly, canterbury, every piece of turf, every grain of sand has been marked with the scent of urine.

 

[bartman]

I cannot speak for others directly but the sentiment I have generally heard and my own is that if our club folded, I may watch games but I will never be a member, buy other club gear or pay to go to a game. It just would never be the same again when you have spent the best part of your life supporting, defending and loving one club.

No matter what anyone says, if you cannot get excited and look forward to your team running out to take on those clubs with which history has created significant rivalry, the game will have lost it's appeal to many of us fans.

That mirrors the participation of many Norths and Wests (Magpies) fans I know. My step-dad (Wests Magpies fan) will watch games on TV if they are good games, flick over if they are boring. He will accept corporate box tickets through work to Parra Stadium on occasion, but not pay his own money to attend any games.

These people are essentially lost to the fan base of the game in their city once their teams are punted, fold or merge.

 

[bartman]

I agree with Nemesis too. I wouldn't go to AFL or Yawnion, but the NRL would NEVER get a single cent from me, ever again, in any form, at any level. I would still watch park football. That's it.

It's easy to say that now but 5 years down the line? your kids?

If your local NRL team is cut now, then why would your kids care less about the game in five years, when they can't aspire to grow up to be a Rabbitoh/Rooster/Shark? When they are force fed Swans and A-League and Waratahs by the media and have no league team of their own in Sydney to feel any loyalty to?

I think the usual fan reaction would be to walk away from the NRL, and not choose to spend any money on it if your team was cut, folded, moved, or perhaps even merged... Anyone who is deluding themselves otherwise needs to have a rethink.

 

[Cloud9]

Should a club merge, what is needed is a well orchestrated grass roots campaign to recruit the disenfranchised back into the game.
Starting with the juniors.

 

[Perth Red]

Really? Do you honestly think if a team goes under then kids in those traditional suburbs of that team (although lets be honest many teams fans now move around a fair bit in this day and age) where RL will still be the No1 code on TV, in the papers, in the schools and on the playing fields will take no interest in RL because there isn't a team named after their suburb?

It seems many fans have such a low opinion of the sport that they feel having 7 or 8 teams in the sports heartland city will somehow give a wide open door for lesser sports to take over. Do you really feel our sport is that weak in Sydney?

ps has anyone found an answer to what Gallop meant by this? I am intrigued!~
"I think it is critically important that the 16 clubs that we have got are not going to easily deal with expansion,'' he said. "I think you always have to be looking at that when you talk about expansion."

This made me laugh, like the NRL has anything OTHER THAN short term plans!

"I don't see it in our short-term plans."

 

[Loudstrat]

It's easy to say that now but 5 years down the line? your kids?

How bad is the NRL with no Newtown in it?

Lots of people miss the Bluebags. They had little support, though. Sort of like Perth, except no one misses them ;-)

I'm from a city where RL is god and families never speak to each other because of inter club marriages! so yes I know what it is like to be a passionate life long fan of a club. I also am realistic to know that if RL is to evolve to the next level changes will inevitably happen. Do I want to see Sydney clubs go under? No. Do i want to see the NRl being held back by clubs that can't keep up? No. Do I think the NRL needs 9 Sydney clubs to thrive? No. Do I think the NRL can thrive with 9 Sydney clubs, I am unsure, Do I think it is a good thing a comp is made up of 9/16 clubs from one city? Not really.

Really? Do you honestly think if a team goes under then kids in those traditional suburbs of that team (although lets be honest many teams fans now move around a fair bit in this day and age) where RL will still be the No1 code on TV, in the papers, in the schools and on the playing fields will take no interest in RL because there isn't a team named after their suburb?

It seems many fans have such a low opinion of the sport that they feel having 7 or 8 teams in the sports heartland city will somehow give a wide open door for lesser sports to take over. Do you really feel our sport is that weak in Sydney?

You have no idea. Why am I surprised!!!!!!!!!

Sydney is made up of distinct areas, seperated by geographical barriers, and evolving as seperate districts. There are 3 roads connecting Manly to the rest of the metropolis. They all lead into the old Bears territory. Another 4 roads lead into Tigers territory - the 5th goes to the Central Coast. One road and a parralell freeway connects Penrith to the greater metropolis - into Parramatta. 2 bridges connect Cronulla to the City - through Dragon's teritory.

When Norths died - Union and AFL took over. Why? Because the 15000 average at NSO provided the biggest drawing entertainment in that area. Same for every club bar Souths and Easts - the closest to Moore Park and the CBD.

Melbourne, with it's flatter landscape and no geological barriers, interconnects with everywhere. A kid in Dandenong can get to the MCG or Teslstra Dome - the only 2 grounds they use these day, and follow anyone. If Penrith went - kids only hope is Parra. Sworn enemies. Ditto Cronulla and St George, Manly and the now defunct Norths. As far as I ccan tell, the only areas where the lines are blurred is between Souths and Easts, Saints and Canterbury and Canterbury and Parra.

That's why you Sydney killers have not a f*cking clue. Decimate one area, and you have 2 problems. 1) The locals will be pissed off. 2) Their closest alternative to a new club is probably a bitter enemy.

At Gosford, we have a :League mad area ready to go. No need to pour the $ in for decades - Swans style - hoping to be self sufficient in 20 years. We have a place ready to go NOW.

But, because it's near Sydney, it's not good enouh. FFS, it's PEOIPLE that fund the game, not grains of sand!!!!!!!!

"I think it is critically important that the 16 clubs that we have got are not going to easily deal with expansion,'' he said. "I think you always have to be looking at that when you talk about expansion."

Possibly because for the majority of fans, expansion means their club may die to put a team in an area that doesn't really give a rats.

 

[bobmar28]

You're talking out of your arse.

The loss of North Sydney has killed rugby league on the north shore. Juniors have been decimated, AFL has moved in and most ex-fans despise the NRL for what they did.

Fact is - we should have another criteria. At least 6 clubs would be kicked out.

Why are we so protective of clubs now when the Bears were backstabbed out of existence 10 years ago?

The North Shore was never rugby league territory. Also the Swans have the whole of Sydney and yet they are going downhill.

If the Bunnies fold then their fans will switch to AFL? I doubt it. Liverpool has never had an NRL team yet this area is solid league and soccer. AFL is always trying to get a toehold here but fails every time.

 

[bobmar28]

IMO you understimate what we are saying. I assume being in WA you can't really understand what it is to be a sydneysider brought up on the game and your team.

If you understood, you would know without any doubt in your mind that if a club like souths was pulling say 16,000 fans and roosters 16,000 and one disappeared, you would get no more at a game in the remaining nearby club. That is a fact, Illawarra/Stgeorge merger is a good example. The merged club today still pulls very good home and away crowds, but not really any more than they did as the StGeorge stand alone club. Fans do show their distain in Sydney by walking away, forever

Where did the Illawarra fans go, AFL?

 

[Joker's Wild]

You are missing the whole point JW... Rugby League can't be expanded at the expense of Sydney teams, full stop. That experiment (Super League) has already been tried and failed and it's taken RL many years to recover. The game must be expanded very carefully and in stages or we risk killing it altogether. Changing the game from it's NSW centric tribal nature to a truly national competition will probably take at least another 10-15 years.

Like it or not, 25% of Australia's population live in Sydney and Sydney is the "heart" of Rugby League. In the current economic crisis, Sydney teams are vulnerable and if too much strain is placed on the "heart" by diverting scarce NRL resources and funds away from it and towards national expansion, the heart may begin to die, taking the rest of the body with it.

Right now, rather than expand the game nationally, the NRL is trying to shore up the position of Sydney clubs, whilst the Sydney clubs themselves attempt to grow their memberships, sponsorships, merchandise sales and other revenue streams.

Imo this is the correct course of action at the moment and Gallop seems to agree. If you have a better solution, then perhaps you should challenge Gallop for the NRL CEO position.

Ive never disputed the expansion plan mate. All I have commented on is the scare mongering from fans like you about how we'll lose fans/players/juniors to AFL if a Sydney club folds.

Ill try and go slower next time so you wont get so confused.