Expansion won't happen anytime soon

[Pommy]

I don't want to get rid of Fox. At least not until the streaming stuff is up and running and we don't need them except on our term (like throw them a couple of games each round for an outrageous price).

I just want to ruffle their feathers by playing in quarters which would piss them off.

Why would you want to reduce income from pay TV to replace it with advertising and piss everyone off in the process. It doesn't make sense.
As things stand the NRL is selling the same thing tn twice once to FTA once to FOX that wouldn't happen under your model.

 

[T-Boon]

Now it is doubtful,that you could run 6 ads in each qtr break and even if the NRL received 25% of this revenue increase is it worth disrupting the flow of the game so much for around $12.5mill a year? We give away nearlynthat much every year gifting Telstra the naming rights.

You are right. The NRL would not pursue quarters for only $12.5m a year. No way. But if you could get that sum up to $40m or $50m a year then absolutely.
I think you can get it up to $50m per year (why would the NRL only get 25% of the increase ad revenue - I'd think 50%) especially if you also extend the length of the game by stoping the clock when the ball is out of play (all up the game might go an extra 15 minutes). The longer coverage is worth more to both Nine and Fox.

 

[T-Boon]

Why would you want to reduce income from pay TV to replace it with advertising and piss everyone off in the process. It doesn't make sense.
As things stand the NRL is selling the same thing tn twice once to FTA once to FOX that wouldn't happen under your model.

I think you would get more $$$ from Fox. They get to show more ads as well. Plus the coverage goes longer so it fills more space in terms of their programming.

 

[Pommy]

I think you would get more $$$ from Fox. They get to show more ads as well. Plus the coverage goes longer so it fills more space in terms of their programming.

Why would you get more money from Fox when their selling point at the moment is they get all the games 9 do plus more all add free.
Why would they pay more if they lose that model?

 

[T-Boon]

Why would you want to reduce income from pay TV to replace it with advertising and piss everyone off in the process. It doesn't make sense.

You would need to do it in a way that doesn't piss everyone off too much.
Introduce quarters at every level except NRL (under 10s etc already play in quarters). Spend a year or two explaining to members the advantage of playing in quarters - better game day experience etc. Then I suppose just do it.

 

[T-Boon]

Why would you get more money from Fox when their selling point at the moment is they get all the games 9 do plus more all add free.
Why would they pay more if they lose that model?

Two reasons: Firstly, Fox do show ads at half time (for their other programs etc). It is only the game time that is ad free. They get to stay "ad free" plus show more of their ads at quarter time.

Secondly, the game goes longer so they have to pay less for other programming. This is one of the reasons they say they pay AFL more at present.

 

[Perth Red]

No I'm asking you ,you're the expansion expert where the money comes from, clubs being closed or relocated.You tell us with the breakup of costs .
When they(AFL) expanded , their TV deal was greater then , than the NRLs, as it is now.
When the AFL expanded the economy was not facing the uncertainty it is now,They had their digital dept up and running.
The WA economy has now the highest unemployment in the country.The Force are struggling badly, and the A league club is marking time.

BY comparing what the AFL did years ago($300m less revenue) re expansion with X amount, bears no relation to the economy today using the same amount for comparison.It's comparing peanuts with macadamias.

You can compare the monies received by codes, but it is difficult to compare costs all up when the TV deals started badly for the NRL on two occasions, meaning catchup.

And yet afl clubs, wildcats and big bash clubs are going gangbusters. Glory and force are basket cases because they have been badly mismanaged, not because of some inherent problem with sports clubs in WA.

Simple fact is when the afl expanded they did it on the back of $300mill revenue and achieved al, the things NRL says It needs to do. Sale of a ninth game would have increase the $500mill revenue as well. There is no expansion not because there is no more money, the game has more mone than it could have dreamed of 25 years ago last time it put in place a strategy for expansion, but because since superleague it has lacked any vision or long term strategy for growth and has spent two decades licking its wounds and gazing at its navel.

How would they afford it you say? Manage the money better and realise the games potential to increase revenue. Salary cap doesn't need to go from $7mill to $10mill, club grants don't need to go from $8mill to $13mill. We don't need to be spending $6.5mill more on events than they generate revenue, cap club spending so NRL doesn't have to bail out failing clubs, etc etc

 

[Pommy]

You would need to do it in a way that doesn't piss everyone off too much.
Introduce quarters at every level except NRL (under 10s etc already play in quarters). Spend a year or two explaining to members the advantage of playing in quarters - better game day experience etc. Then I suppose just do it.

Better game day experience? How does this improve game day experience? 4 minutes isn't going to be enough time to make it from your seat to the bar and back again.

 

[BuffaloRules]

.

How would they afford it you say? Manage the money better and realise the games potential to increase revenue. Salary cap doesn't need to go from $7mill to $10mill, club grants don't need to go from $8mill to $13mill. We don't need to be spending $6.5mill more on events than they generate revenue, cap club spending so NRL doesn't have to bail out failing clubs, etc etc

I don't understand why the TV money goes up by 80%, yet the player salary cant go up by 42%?

Shouldn't the game be trying to put more money into the salary cap to try to stop the likes of Koribiate and Radradra going to play Union?

And imagine ever attracting an elite player the other way from Union to League?

 

[Perth Red]

I think it should go up, but incremently. People are talking about it going up to ten million straight away. Put it up $1mill in 2018 then $1/2mill each year in 2019-2022. Yes players deserve as much as they can earn but it is money out of the game with no return in essence. We are not losing our best players to union, just the odd winger and they could have been retained if the NRL had paid them to be Fiji ambassadors and help grow the game over there.

 

[Lockyer4President!]

I don't understand why the TV money goes up by 80%, yet the player salary cant go up by 42%?

Shouldn't the game be trying to put more money into the salary cap to try to stop the likes of Koribiate and Radradra going to play Union?

And imagine ever attracting an elite player the other way from Union to League?

Players are always going to leave for other sports, whether it be domestic rivals or international rivals. We could have a 20M salary cap and it'd still occur with some regularity.

Paying those few players more is attacking the wrong end of the problem.

 

[BuffaloRules]

Players are always going to leave for other sports, whether it be domestic rivals or international rivals. We could have a 20M salary cap and it'd still occur with some regularity.

Paying those few players more is attacking the wrong end of the problem.

Yes some will always leave but for the likes of Radradra and Koribiate its all about the money..

Two exciting crowd pleasers about to leave the game

 

[Lockyer4President!]

Yes some will always leave but for the likes of Radradra and Koribiate its all about the money..

Two exciting crowd pleasers about to leave the game

Players will always come and go, a higher salary cap won't change that.

We cannot structure the entire game's funding model based on what one or two players might do.
If the funding looks after the hundreds of thousands of people playing the game in this country then there will always be new players coming through. That's how the game will grow no matter what happens in other sports.

 

[taipan]

And yet afl clubs, wildcats and big bash clubs are going gangbusters. Glory and force are basket cases because they have been badly mismanaged, not because of some inherent problem with sports clubs in WA.

Simple fact is when the afl expanded they did it on the back of $300mill revenue and achieved al, the things NRL says It needs to do. Sale of a ninth game would have increase the $500mill revenue as well. There is no expansion not because there is no more money, the game has more mone than it could have dreamed of 25 years ago last time it put in place a strategy for expansion, but because since superleague it has lacked any vision or long term strategy for growth and has spent two decades licking its wounds and gazing at its navel.

How would they afford it you say? Manage the money better and realise the games potential to increase revenue. Salary cap doesn't need to go from $7mill to $10mill, club grants don't need to go from $8mill to $13mill. We don't need to be spending $6.5mill more on events than they generate revenue, cap club spending so NRL doesn't have to bail out failing clubs, etc etc

For a start you have NFI .The Lions are losing money hand over foot.Their CEO Schwab(spelling) has left.
The Suns are hardly setting the earth on fire.The GWS rely on Canberra for bulk of membership .$200m for both the GWS and Suns!!! Spare me days.The tV ratings for both in the Nth States is abysmal.

And the NRL meantime had to finance the Knights and Titans , awaiting sale.Loans to the Tigers and Dragons.Yeah we got a bottomless pit of loot.

Glory and Force did not have the financial backing to sustain them.And now the economy in australia and more so WA is going backwards.The comments from financial people in the media paint an ordinary picture for WA, with the number of mortgages facing repayment issues, more so than any other state.

I don't know how many times I have to tell you ,the AFL were miles in front of us TV deal wise.They arranged expansion(Suns/GWS) post 2008 GFC .The AFL had already poured hundreds of millions of dollars into grassroots.We didn't.

You or I have NFI what an extra game would be worth.We took over Touch Football,that costs money.

I repeat one more time ,because its like debating with a hampster.Show me how you would split up the expenses, by providing us with the net income after contras and the actual break up of the current expenditure?Unless you are able to provide these details , your hypothetical distributions is like p*ssing in the wind.

BTW who knows what the lie of the land will be in 2022, with the new digital world.TV as it dominates now may not be so dominant then.If the money is not forthcoming then what.

Of course there must be savings .Smith overspent on admin, that has been shown by $5m pa savings since.

If we have the money by all means expand.If we wish to be irresponsible and spend beyond our means, then good luck.

Reduce the salary cap to $9m(not $10m) and there is $16m extra for expansion.But that won't happen.

 

[Perth Red]

For a start you have NFI .The Lions are losing money hand over foot.Their CEO Schwab(spelling) has left.
The Suns are hardly setting the earth on fire.The GWS rely on Canberra for bulk of membership .$200m for both the GWS and Suns!!! Spare me days.The tV ratings for both in the Nth States is abysmal.

And the NRL meantime had to finance the Knights and Titans , awaiting sale.Loans to the Tigers and Dragons.Yeah we got a bottomless pit of loot.

Glory and Force did not have the financial backing to sustain them.And now the economy in australia and more so WA is going backwards.The comments from financial people in the media paint an ordinary picture for WA, with the number of mortgages facing repayment issues, more so than any other state.

I don't know how many times I have to tell you ,the AFL were miles in front of us TV deal wise.They arranged expansion(Suns/GWS) post 2008 GFC .The AFL had already poured hundreds of millions of dollars into grassroots.We didn't.

You or I have NFI what an extra game would be worth.We took over Touch Football,that costs money.

I repeat one more time ,because its like debating with a hampster.Show me how you would split up the expenses, by providing us with the net income after contras and the actual break up of the current expenditure?Unless you are able to provide these details , your hypothetical distributions is like p*ssing in the wind.

BTW who knows what the lie of the land will be in 2022, with the new digital world.TV as it dominates now may not be so dominant then.If the money is not forthcoming then what.

Of course there must be savings .Smith overspent on admin, that has been shown by $5m pa savings since.

If we have the money by all means expand.If we wish to be irresponsible and spend beyond our means, then good luck.

Reduce the salary cap to $9m(not $10m) and there is $16m extra for expansion.But that won't happen.

lol.you were talking about Perth and putting a new club in Perth. Last time I looked neither the lions Suns or GWS are playing in Perth?

Glory and force are struggling because they have been terrible on the field for a decade. There's only so much shite performances fans will put up with. Since sage took over glory have gone from the biggest soccer club in the country to one of the smallest. Force first few years they were going gangbusters, corporates falling over themselves to be attached to them, crowds bigger than most NRL clubs, making a profit each year etc. after failing to achieve anything on the field, numerous changes of players and coaches, bad behaviour of star players etc the fans and sponsors have drifted away. It's not that they aren't there anymore.

 

[BuffaloRules]

Glory and force are struggling because they have been terrible on the field for a decade. There's only so much shite performances fans will put up with. Since sage took over glory have gone from the biggest soccer club in the country to one of the smallest. Force first few years they were going gangbusters, corporates falling over themselves to be attached to them, crowds bigger than most NRL clubs, making a profit each year etc. after failing to achieve anything on the field, numerous changes of players and coaches, bad behaviour of star players etc the fans and sponsors have drifted away. It's not that they aren't there anymore.

Unlike the AFL, other codes expansion teams don't get leg ups which are unfair to the existing teams to make them always competitive on the field...

You are saying that Perth will only support winners....

There wont be any guarantee that any Perth RL team will be successful on the field...

 

[Perth Red]

No, I'm saying they will drift away from a decade plus of losing, pretty much like anywhere else. Poor club manage will lead to any club in Perth, or anywhere else, finding themselves in strife.

You think the Storm would be in the black if they hadn't had 20 years of extra funding leading to huge success on the field?

I wouldn't expect a Perth team to be continuously winning but I would also expect that if they spent ten years at the bottom of the table they will be in trouble. That I why the NRL needs a strategy that builds the infrastructure, jnrs, corporate and govt support, fanbase etc etc for a future NRL team in Perth. If that is in 5 years so be it but the work needs to start now, not a year or two before introduction.

 

[Perth Red]

Expansion would cost the NRL in region of $30mill a year. By 2018 each game will be worth around $45mill a year in tv revenue. Even if a ninth game isn't worth as much as the existing 8 it is hard to see it not coming clos to self funding. The horse has bolted now until around 2021/22 when the next deal will negotiated but if the NRL aren't looking at bringing in teams by then it will be deja Vue. Announce new teams by 2019 with a planned introduction 2021 so the ninth game can be included in the sales pitch. That would only require around $60-90mill of nrl's revenue. Out of $2billion it is hard to fathom they couldn't afford this.

 

[BuffaloRules]

Expansion would cost the NRL in region of $30mill a year. By 2018 each game will be worth around $45mill a year in tv revenue. Even if a ninth game isn't worth as much as the existing 8 it is hard to see it not coming clos to self funding. The horse has bolted now until around 2021/22 when the next deal will negotiated but if the NRL aren't looking at bringing in teams by then it will be deja Vue. Announce new teams by 2019 with a planned introduction 2021 so the ninth game can be included in the sales pitch. That would only require around $60-90mill of nrl's revenue. Out of $2billion it is hard to fathom they couldn't afford this.

Yeah I'm with you on this .. always have been...

The problem is that this requires NRL Leadership with a vision which the game has lacked for nearly 20 years...

The NRL leader that gets the game to this point is not going to be Grant, and I have a question mark over Greenburg, but he may be able to develop into his own man when Grant gets moved on...

 

[Perth Red]

Agreed, I don't think either of them have the vision to see where the game could and should be in twenty years time. Geez Greenburg in his opening media interview when getting the job told them he was no visionary leader! With the clubs once again wanting to be the tail wagging the dog, a lack of strategic and visionary leadership in the commission and CEO position it doesn't bode well.

People like taipan think it is about the money we have today but in reality it is about a lack of ability to set goals and achieve them. Take a look at the NRL strategic plan that has been in place for 4 years and how far behind on nearly every meaningful kpi they are that should be met by 2017.

Not that it's anything new for rugby league. An amazing sport on the field ran by a bunch of morons off it. Been that way for the 36 years Ive followed the sport.