F7s Four Nations

[Azkatro]

http://forums.leagueunlimited.com/showthread.php?t=313001

As far as I can see here it was discussed (point 10) in January 2009, and no real conclusions or decisions were reached. Then suddenly 22 months later it's implemented on the eve of a final with no prior warning? It is really unusual and in my view should be put on hold, discussed during the off season and possibly implemented initially in inconsequential matches.

 

[Willow]

The two referees indicated they were available for the Final. They both did equal number of games in the 4N. Unless there is some objection from the captains, what's the problem?

If the captains say no, then it's back to the one ref.

Griffo, it was not possible to have two referees for the whole lot. It is hoped that by trying it out, we can see how practical it is before making a push for more refs over the off-season.

Azkatro, the proposal to have two referees has been promoted for some time. It's not as if it has suddenly emerged overnight.

It had to be acted on quickly before the window of opportunity passed. It didn't go to committee, that's right. But did it need to? IMO, if it went to committee, it would have resulted in the exact same debate we are seeing here. We would have got bogged down in semantics and it would not have happened.

The two ref idea has always been difficult to implement in the past because we simply didn't have enough referees, plus we didn't know how it would work out - we never had anything practical to gauge it on. Now we are suddenly presented with the opportunity to try it out, and be a little enterprising. And some people are finding fault?

IMO, the F7s 4N Final is a an excellent time to try it out. Not only is it the last game of 2010, it is special match that deserves special attention. Being the last chance to try in 2010 means the timing is perfect. Try the dual refs now and we will have opportunity to dissect it, and discuss it over the off season in F7s mgt.

Leave it any later and it'll be put off for another year. Keep in mind that trials are generally at the tail end of the off-season discussions, and no trial have been planned at this stage. It may be trialled further depending on discussion after this week. But before that, the Committee needs time to plan for any future practical implementation of the two ref idea.

There several good reasons for giving it a shot. What exactly are the objections to it?

 

[griffo346]

clearly the objections are

that we dont have enough refs to make it fair for the whole tournament so it shouldnt go ahead just for the final

also if the f7s commitee forms earlier we can discuss this stuff earlier hence leaving more time for trail matches to take place to implement the ideas into place.

sorry although i never posted a article in the f7s four nations (but was picked to do so) i see this as extremely unfair to the roos and the lions whom didnt get the chance to do this.

on a side note we could of done the 2 refs anyways even if we had 2 refs for the matches

 

[Willow]

So the two main objections are:
1. All games should have had two refs.
and
2. Why the sudden decision? (aka "Why wasn't I told?")

Answer 1: Only three members (I recall) put up their hands as refs. Non Terminator, gorilla and me. So it was not a possibility to have two refs for all games. If we got a few more hands, then maybe.

I was happy to opt out of the reffing given that the F7s 4N was not going to happen unless I organised it. Not trying to sound to cocky, just stating the facts. I already had a lot on my plate by making sure it happened.

Answer 2: Every effort was made to inform people forummers of every development, with the time allowed to do so. Remember, the F7s 4N has a very quick turnaround between matches. As soon as the opportunity presented itself, it was put in place and everyone informed. Sunday night was the first chance to consider it.

Some other hard facts:
It's also a fact that we lost a few management personnel this year. I can't say I blame them - it takes a lot of committment and you have to deal with a lot of unfair criticism. But I'm not one for sitting back and doing nothing, and watching the F7s go down the gurglar. However, it may come to that.

Nor am I in the habit of doing nothing while looking for something to complain about. Not mentioning any names, but I find it odd when certain forummers take offence to not being kept enough in the loop.

In 2011, there will need to be some changes. The F7s is in trouble and sitting on our collective hands is no solution. We need to be more enterprising. Do you want to see some action or not?

 

[Non Terminator]

I know how slack I've been with management (with the blisters on my fingers it's hurting to type this lol) of the website, but I'd like to take an in-game role next year if, sadly, the Roosters do fall.

 

[bartman]

Personally, I think having two refs with scored averaged for any F7s final (now and into the future) is a terrific idea.

This could apply to the final of an F7s PvP (if it takes place next year), the final of the main F7s comp (of course!), and the final of any multi-game F7s rep series (and maybe any one-off F7s rep game too?).

Supporting reasons:
1. In all of the above matches, having two refs for the vital final game won't be an extra pull on the refereeing ranks (as those cases all come down to just one single match).
2. It sucks when a refereeing controversy takes away from any match or its outcome. Having two refs for vital matches means that some potentially controversial decisions stand a better chance of being "caught" and "checked" through some formal, consistent process, prior to being posted as a result and all hell breaking loose...
3. In past situations where controversial decisions have been delivered in finals, a lot of pressure (imagined or otherwise) is brought to bear on the person who at the end of the day is volunteering their service and is a forum member just like the rest of us. Having two refs for finals means this pressure will not be as personal.
4. It mirrors current NRL practice of two-refs, which is surely worth a try in F7s?

As Willow said, it's use in this final should come down to the stated will of both captains, but I would vocally support the adoption in advance of two referees for finals matches of the 2011 F7s season.