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Financial fragility of the game

yadamisha

Juniors
Messages
490
I wouldn't be gloating over the other clubs. Its actually $1.95million over two years. Given you just posted a $3.2million loss for last year I wouldn't be so excited! Your memberships are down and you have two major sponsors on your jersey not sold this year. Of all the money you have had from your development you are only actually carrying $4million in cash reserve. Better than some clubs but given how you are travelling financially this on top will eat through that pretty quickly.

Incorrect - $16 million in reserves plus and extra $12 million locked away in escrow for the leagues club refurbishment. Those two positions on the jersey weren't sold last year so not relevant in your argument. Once the new leagues club is finished it will be a gold mine with that population on its doorsteps plus further income from the golf club (which is valued a lot more than the club paid for it in land value alone). Future income won't be an issue. Expect more commercial land purchases to come, which will provide even more income in the future, similar to the Roosters/Penrith model. Once your have money its easy to make more.
 

taipan

Referee
Messages
22,409
Incorrect - $16 million in reserves plus and extra $12 million locked away in escrow for the leagues club refurbishment. Those two positions on the jersey weren't sold last year so not relevant in your argument. Once the new leagues club is finished it will be a gold mine with that population on its doorsteps plus further income from the golf club (which is valued a lot more than the club paid for it in land value alone). Future income won't be an issue. Expect more commercial land purchases to come, which will provide even more income in the future, similar to the Roosters/Penrith model. Once your have money its easy to make more.

PR likes to leave out facts ,that may distract form his perpetual Shark bagging.

I will say this.Not that long ago David Um Giddyup raved about his Australian record TV deal $500m over 6 years for the NRL. Within a donkey's fart later, the AFL gleefully announced they got $780m over 5 years.

From that moment on and during his tenure ,we were behind the 8 ball,The same guy led our code for what 10 years? Of course we should have had more money in the Bank, than now.And yes we have had incompetent clubs at times, including the one I support.
But when the vast majority of revenue comes from broadcasting, the negotiators for the NRL went missing in action ,and WE GOT DIS.
 
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adamkungl

Immortal
Messages
42,955
Yes but they are not asking for same considerations, he is asking for $200-500mill! Show me one company with 1000 employees who is going to have any chance of receiving that sort of bail out package. Flight centre has 20,000 staff, I doubt they are getting bailed out.

No harm in asking, everyone else will be.
Greenberg said himself he would fully expect the PM to shoot it down at this stage.

Ultimately any assistance is gonna keep clubs alive and ordinary people in jobs. Demand for premium sport content won't disappear, the players will be back on big money next year, but the more of the existing structures fall over, the longer it will take to rebuild that economy and the accompanying support jobs.

Now isn't the time to debate expansion/rationalisation. The NRL *might* be forced into a position but IMO it would be in poor taste to take advantage of clubs falling over due to a global pandemic, if it can be avoided. Norths-esque.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,829
Incorrect - $16 million in reserves plus and extra $12 million locked away in escrow for the leagues club refurbishment. Those two positions on the jersey weren't sold last year so not relevant in your argument. Once the new leagues club is finished it will be a gold mine with that population on its doorsteps plus further income from the golf club (which is valued a lot more than the club paid for it in land value alone). Future income won't be an issue. Expect more commercial land purchases to come, which will provide even more income in the future, similar to the Roosters/Penrith model. Once your have money its easy to make more.

That $12mill must be being held by the developers then is it as it isnt showing on the Sharks books?
And last year you lost $3.2million despite sacking half the staff.
The buying the golf club is a smart move, land assets in the the immediate future could be good investments.
So far nearly all the sales money has paid on debt accumulation from historic debt and ongoing annual losses. The golf club is really the first investment the Sharks have been able to make with the wealth. This time you aren't alone though, every club is going to be up sht creek if the 6 month lock down is reality.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,829
PR likes to leave out facts ,that may distract form his perpetual Shark bagging.

I will say this.Not that long ago David Um Giddyup raved about his Australian record TV deal $500m over 6 years for the NRL. Within a donkey's fart later, the AFL gleefully announced they got $780m over 5 years.

From that moment on and during his tenure ,we were behind the 8 ball,The same guy led our code for what 10 years? Of course we should have had more money in the Bank, than now.And yes we have had incompetent clubs at times, including the one I support.
But when the vast majority of revenue comes from broadcasting, the negotiators for the NRL went missing in action ,and WE GOT DIS.

The NRL's had $2.5billion in the last 8 years. Its not like they haven't had money, they've just spent it all. Smith got hammered, including by many on here, for wanting to build a future fund
"... but what about grassroots,....no point in having money if the clubs are going bust.....we need to spend to keep up with AFL's march into Sydney...." and so it went on. In hindsight probably would have been wise to listen to an international finance expert when it came it what to do with NRL's new wealth.
 

Quicksilver

Bench
Messages
4,026
The NRL's had $2.5billion in the last 8 years. Its not like they haven't had money, they've just spent it all. Smith got hammered, including by many on here, for wanting to build a future fund
"... but what about grassroots,....no point in having money if the clubs are going bust.....we need to spend to keep up with AFL's march into Sydney...." and so it went on. In hindsight probably would have been wise to listen to an international finance expert when it came it what to do with NRL's new wealth.

And yet, everyone on here whinges endlessly when the league acts frugal. "we need new stadiums", "people shouldn't be standing on the hill","we need better social media engagement", "ticket prices should be cheaper", "Trent Barrett bought his own chairs" "I can't believe we don't have this and that".
 

Cactus

Juniors
Messages
677
Former News Corp chairman and chief executive John Hartigan believes the NRL and broadcasters should look to immediately re-negotiate long-term television deals in an effort to shore up their uncertain futures amid the coronavirus crisis.

With sport forced into COVID-19 lockdown around the globe, competitions such as the NRL and AFL stand to be cruelled financially if they lose significant portions of their seasons to the virus and they are left stranded without the millions in broadcast rights revenue that prop up the games.

Players in the AFL, which has already reduced its season from 23 to 17 rounds, are already facing 20 per cent pay cuts to cope with the shortfall while under its revenue-share agreement with players, the NRL could also reduce salaries to its stars if the money coming into the game plummeted.

With the coronavirus spread threatening to blow up the NRL's business model, Hartigan argues the game and the television networks should act now and attempt to lock in re-negotiated long-term deals that could include continued financial backing through any suspension of the competition but represent a lower overall value.

The NRL’s $1.8 billion agreement with Foxtel, Nine and Telstra runs until 2022, as does the AFL’s $2.5bn deal with Seven West Media, Foxtel and Telstra, and while the code would have to accept a reduction in rights fees in the circumstances, with player payments going backwards, it could help secure its future.

“That’s something they would have to be contemplating, just because of that cash flow and the certainty of it. It’s an opportune time,” Hartigan said on Tuesday.“The overriding thing for the broadcasters and the sports is certainty. When you’ve got unprecedented uncertainty ... the ability to ensure cash flows becomes imperative but also into the future. There is only one thing that gives all the codes certainty and that’s the tie-up with the broadcasters.”

As sports wrestle with what the future looks like, another prominent media figure, who wished to remain anonymous, said it needed to be explained to players that “maybe they’re not going to be paid a million dollars [a year] anymore, that maybe it’s more like $500,000, and if not it could be zero.”

ARL Commission chairman Peter V'landys has called for support for rugby league under the federal government's stimulus package and has said he does not expect broadcasters to continue paying their instalments without content being provided.

Asked on Tuesday about the prospect of re-negotiating its television deal, V'landys said: "Every option is on the table, and that's another option, absolutely. We've never come across anything like this before that actually puts the game at risk. We will take any action necessary to ensure the viability of the game. We don't know where this is going to land."

While the NRL is bracing for the worst, Rugby Australia’s own negotiations for a new deal have been thrown into turmoil just as it had been in talks with its latest potential partner, Optus.

Hartigan, who believes it is a “certainty” that the football seasons will be suspended due to COVID-19, said it was also in the interests of the broadcasters not to allow popular sports to fall over. But they are no longer in anywhere near as healthy a position as they once were, with Foxtel’s debts rising to $2.3bn, Seven’s borrowings topping $700m and Hugh Marks, the CEO of Nine, publisher of this masthead, announcing last month the company would cut $100m from its free-to-air business.

“The reality is they need long-term arrangements with the most popular sports,” Hartigan said of the broadcasters. “If it means taking advantage of this downturn then so be it.

“But you’ve got to recognise that with the changing nature of audiences, all of a sudden you’ve got a position where the free-to-air broadcasters have got nowhere near the deep pockets they once had and you’ve also got the sporting codes in equally bad shape, so pragmatism becomes essential. Broadcasters have always talked about sports rights going down and if they’re going to, the landscape is ripe now.”

The NRL is pressing on with the second round of its competition this week behind closed doors and plans on trying to make up for any games lost later in the year even if the season has to run until November.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/new-lo...l-says-ex-news-corp-boss-20200317-p54b0u.html


And here we have John Hartigan (of all people...sigh) promoting his view that the NRL should renegotiate the broadcast contract for a new long term deal on much reduced terms.

Note how the article starts by speaking in the context the Australian sporting codes of AFL & NRL but then spends the entire piece about how specifically the NRL should renegotiate on lower sums.

And I loved these bits towards the end of the article:

“If it means taking advantage of this downturn then so be it"

"Broadcasters have always talked about sports rights going down and if they’re going to, the landscape is ripe now.”
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,829
And yet, everyone on here whinges endlessly when the league acts frugal. "we need new stadiums", "people shouldn't be standing on the hill","we need better social media engagement", "ticket prices should be cheaper", "Trent Barrett bought his own chairs" "I can't believe we don't have this and that".

There will be no better opportunity than this moving forward to shut that sort of talk up and get serious about building an asset base for the game. If we dont do it after this scare and with the next 7 years of $ then the clubs and NRL dont deserve bailing out or our support if they get in trouble again.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,829
AFL and NRL fans will likely be locked out of stadiums by the federal government due to coronavirus until late September in a move that could bankrupt several clubs.

Prime Minister Scott Morrison said on Wednesday that Australians should be prepared to comply with his ban on outdoor gatherings above 500 people for at least six months.

That means unless the AFL and NRL seasons are extended - which is being explored - fans won’t get to watch their clubs from the stands in 2020.

“We are looking at a situation of at least six months for how we deal with this,” Morrison said.

Morrison also lowered the number of people allowed at non-essential indoor gatherings to 100 on Wednesday which will have a huge impact on leagues clubs which fund most NRL teams.

Every NRL team will be hurt by that and without their game-day earnings and some could fold.

But none are in more danger than Manly, Gold Coast and the New Zealand Warriors.
Manly’s majority shareholder Scott Penn admitted the club is living pay cheque to pay cheque and they have no cash reserve.
The Penn family already stumps up $1 million annually to ensure the club breaks even.
Warriors owner Mark Robinson has committed to keeping the team in Australia as long as the NRL foots the bill.
If the Warriors were booted and denied their annual $13m in broadcast money, they’d struggle to stay afloat and return next season.
Gold Coast owners Darryl Kelly and Rebecca Frizelle would have to reach into their own pockets to save the club if fans are kept away all season.
The Broncos, Roosters and Rabbitohs are the healthiest NRL clubs.
https://7news.com.au/sport/afl/afl-and-nrl-fans-could-be-locked-out-all-season-c-750815
 

taipan

Referee
Messages
22,409
The NRL's had $2.5billion in the last 8 years. Its not like they haven't had money, they've just spent it all. Smith got hammered, including by many on here, for wanting to build a future fund
"... but what about grassroots,....no point in having money if the clubs are going bust.....we need to spend to keep up with AFL's march into Sydney...." and so it went on. In hindsight probably would have been wise to listen to an international finance expert when it came it what to do with NRL's new wealth.


Mate .the rot started when the Galloping one .got suckered punch by the TV deal involving Fox(who half owned the NRL) 6 years for $500m against $780m for5 years with the fumblers, you do the maths.
We got reamed, rogered screwed , porked you name it ATT.
Even allowing for monies wasted ,we should have at least $150m -$200m in the Bank.>It's not as if the TV deals started a. few years ago.The AFL had ,and has the loot, we don't. You can't spend what you don't have.
Yep Smith got hammered, and we still don't know the result if he hadn't gone rogue and squirted off Rupert.
Gallop and the clubs have a lot of blame ,regarding our current position.And for Gus to give orders and advice, with the waste that went on at Penrith is laughable.Gallop did next to nothing about lobbying Govt for infrastructure assistance.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,829
Mate .the rot started when the Galloping one .got suckered punch by the TV deal involving Fox(who half owned the NRL) 6 years for $500m against $780m for5 years with the fumblers, you do the maths.
We got reamed, rogered screwed , porked you name it ATT.
Even allowing for monies wasted ,we should have at least $150m -$200m in the Bank.>It's not as if the TV deals started a. few years ago.The AFL had ,and has the loot, we don't. You can't spend what you don't have.
Yep Smith got hammered, and we still don't know the result if he hadn't gone rogue and squirted off Rupert.
Gallop and the clubs have a lot of blame ,regarding our current position.And for Gus to give orders and advice, with the waste that went on at Penrith is laughable.Gallop did next to nothing about lobbying Govt for infrastructure assistance.

Yeh we know that, that's what comes of conflicted ownership. Nothing that the game could do about it till it managed to get the leech that is News Ltd off the board.
But since then, we've been independent and responsible for our own strategy, since then we've earnt $2.5billion, since then we have a number of opportunities to build an asset base, we brought in Smith from the finance sector to do exactly that then failed to back him. the choices have been the games on what to do with its massive wealth increase since 2013. Its spent it all, bit rich to now on a rainy day get the begging bowl out. Reminds me of the guy who wins millions on lotto then blows it all and asks for a go fund me page to help out.

Blame the commissioners, blame Greenberg, blame the clubs who cant operate on less than $25million despite only needing $16million for football operations. There's plenty to go round and if this once in a lifetime situation (hopefully) has put the spotlight on the general financial incompetence of the game then at least something good has come out of it hopefully.
 

taipan

Referee
Messages
22,409
Yeh we know that, that's what comes of conflicted ownership. Nothing that the game could do about it till it managed to get the leech that is News Ltd off the board.
But since then, we've been independent and responsible for our own strategy, since then we've earnt $2.5billion, since then we have a number of opportunities to build an asset base, we brought in Smith from the finance sector to do exactly that then failed to back him. the choices have been the games on what to do with its massive wealth increase since 2013. Its spent it all, bit rich to now on a rainy day get the begging bowl out. Reminds me of the guy who wins millions on lotto then blows it all and asks for a go fund me page to help out.

Blame the commissioners, blame Greenberg, blame the clubs who cant operate on less than $25million despite only needing $16million for football operations. There's plenty to go round and if this once in a lifetime situation (hopefully) has put the spotlight on the general financial incompetence of the game then at least something good has come out of it hopefully.

Mate when did Fox pull out of their 1/2 ownership.
WE had the opportunity to have a decent cash way back when AFL got their $780m.We didn't and teh AFL used that as a big springboard,.We ended up with nothing better than an ironing board by comparison.
Imagine getting $130m pa over 5 years ($600m) instead of $83m pa($500 over 6 years) whilst AFL got $156m pa over 5 years.A bleeding year 9 economics student could save a hell of a lot with that.

We could have set the precedent for TV deals and set ourselves up for the future deals, instead we muffed it.Massive wealth should have happened then as a starter.To ignore that point, is to ignore history
and the reality of a dud deal.
I blame the Gallop years(10-11) and the clubs. Greenberg is a last minute Luigi, when the bulk of the dosh had been p*ssed up against the wall prior.And Smith wasn't exactly careful with the cash.

If Greenberg and Vlad can get the code through this current crapola, I'll genefluct before them.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,829
Mate when did Fox pull out of their 1/2 ownership.
WE had the opportunity to have a decent cash way back when AFL got their $780m.We didn't and teh AFL used that as a big springboard,.We ended up with nothing better than an ironing board by comparison.
Imagine getting $130m pa over 5 years ($600m) instead of $83m pa($500 over 6 years) whilst AFL got $156m pa over 5 years.A bleeding year 9 economics student could save a hell of a lot with that.

We could have set the precedent for TV deals and set ourselves up for the future deals, instead we muffed it.Massive wealth should have happened then as a starter.To ignore that point, is to ignore history
and the reality of a dud deal.
I blame the Gallop years(10-11) and the clubs. Greenberg is a last minute Luigi, when the bulk of the dosh had been p*ssed up against the wall prior.And Smith wasn't exactly careful with the cash.

If Greenberg and Vlad can get the code through this current crapola, I'll genefluct before them.

Fox still 1/2 owned the game when that $500mill deal was done in 2005. They screwed us no doubt and Gallop was a news ltd employee so no surprise they were allowed to. Mind you compared to the even worse 2000 deal it was still a 65% increase, that one must have been really bad!
The commission didn't take over till 2012 then 2013 we hit pay day with the $1.8billion deal kicking in. There's an excuse for not having any money 1998-2012 to save, conflicted ownership.
what's the excuse since then?

We'll get through it. It's a $billion a year business at end of day and the main funders need us to be around next year so arent going to pull their funding and put one of their biggest investments at risk.
 

taipan

Referee
Messages
22,409
Fox still 1/2 owned the game when that $500mill deal was done in 2005. They screwed us no doubt and Gallop was a news ltd employee so no surprise they were allowed to. Mind you compared to the even worse 2000 deal it was still a 65% increase, that one must have been really bad!
The commission didn't take over till 2012 then 2013 we hit pay day with the $1.8billion deal kicking in. There's an excuse for not having any money 1998-2012 to save, conflicted ownership.
what's the excuse since then?

We'll get through it. It's a $billion a year business at end of day and the main funders need us to be around next year so arent going to pull their funding and put one of their biggest investments at risk.

Mate I'm the first to admit after Gallop left ,there were stuff ups ,with CEOs and clubs.My club were experts at doing dough,after paying out coaches and taking on loopy players and inviting "Ivan the Injector" to improve performances.
.But 11 years at the helm ,you would think a CEO like the Galloper ,would have banked at least $100m plus.Before any Commission.There's no excuse,the first big TV deal should have been at least comparable or just less than the AFLs.The disparity between the two, was like dog's balls in a restaurant.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,829
Mate I'm the first to admit after Gallop left ,there were stuff ups ,with CEOs and clubs.My club were experts at doing dough,after paying out coaches and taking on loopy players and inviting "Ivan the Injector" to improve performances.
.But 11 years at the helm ,you would think a CEO like the Galloper ,would have banked at least $100m plus.Before any Commission.There's no excuse,the first big TV deal should have been at least comparable or just less than the AFLs.The disparity between the two, was like dog's balls in a restaurant.

TBF to Gallop, and he was useless, how could he get a good deal when half the game was owned by the company he was trying to get a good deal out of? The only way it was ever going to match AFL's was if it was independent and we had a good CEO, we had neither of those things. The "game" can be excused for not having any savings in 2012 given the situation it found itself in. Since that time there really isnt any excuses. Totally independent in its decision making and $2.5billion in revenue later and all we have is $70mill from the last two years. Its simply not good enough from Greenberg and the commission.

Clubs havent helped and yours isn't alone in that by any means! It cost NRL around $12mill to keep the Knights and Titans afloat, the spending on Touch footy which has had questionable benefits. The increase on VR, integrity unit, admin, player welfare and numerous other significant expenditure increases in last 7 years.

If this hadn't happened I guess we would have kept on burning through it as we earnt it, maybe this will give the NRL and the clubs a mighty kick up the backside! Cap club spending to $22mill, any extra has to be in agreed areas such as marketing or fan engagement, get serious about setting aside a future fund out of central revenue, look at where we should invest to get a better return and build up an asset base. If Roosters can build $152mill in assets then pretty sure the NRL should be able to!
 

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