Financial fragility of the game

[franklin2323]

doubt many are watching 8 games live. Fox could have two games on at same time on different channels on a Saturday and Sunday afternoon. Once we get adelaide, perth and nz2 in we have much more variety in time zones. If that happened we could have a (eastern time) 6pm Friday Nz game every week, a Sunday 5:30 or 6pm from SA/WA every week. That could give us a schedule that was much more fan attending friendly.
Friday 6pm NZ
Saturday 2 games@3pm, 5:30pm, 2 games@7:30pm
Sunday 2 games@3pm, 6pm

The Sunday 4pm game and Friday 9.30pm games showed this doesn’t work

 

[Perth Red]

The Sunday 4pm game and Friday 9.30pm games showed this doesn’t work

doesn’t work for fta as they need eyes on tv for adverts. For Fox it doesn’t matter how ,many watch each individual game as it’s about overall subscriptions.

something has to give, either we create every opportunity for clubs to increase revenue from fans , or we stick to relying on tv and the nrl grant as main source of income. If we want to change we need to change.

 

[franklin2323]

doesn’t work for fta as they need eyes on tv for adverts. For Fox it doesn’t matter how ,many watch each individual game as it’s about overall subscriptions.

something has to give, either we create every opportunity for clubs to increase revenue from fans , or we stick to relying on tv and the nrl grant as main source of income. If we want to change we need to change.

Doesn’t work on pay too as most people know the scores

Things are changing though almost every club sells a home game or 2. Most have developments in.
Other places can save money though. Partnerships in lower grades. Less coaches etc

What would help is NRL and TV coming up with 2 of ‘events’ per club to boost average put these on better timeslots. Same time each year and build them up

 

[Perth Red]

Doesn’t work on pay too as most people know the scores

Things are changing though almost every club sells a home game or 2. Most have developments in.
Other places can save money though. Partnerships in lower grades. Less coaches etc

What would help is NRL and TV coming up with 2 of ‘events’ per club to boost average put these on better timeslots. Same time each year and build them up

that’s why you show them both live on different channels and fans can choose which they watch.
Having 2 event games ayear isn’t going to make much difference. Getting crowds up to 20-25k and memberships up to 30k a club is what is needed if you want to move clubs off the nrl grant teat

 

[franklin2323]

that’s why you show them both live on different channels and fans can choose which they watch.
Having 2 event games ayear isn’t going to make much difference. Getting crowds up to 20-25k and memberships up to 30k a club is what is needed if you want to move clubs off the nrl grant teat

In that scenario Fox is halving their audience

You will never get those size crowds though. Memberships can and are growing.

 

[tri_colours]

the Saturday game at 3, the Saturday game at 7.30 . what would the Crowd difference be? Because most cases your looking at 50 - 60 000 + viewers difference on PTV, and that doesn't include pubs. That's a lot of sponsorship, new viewers , merchandise sales and all the rest . TV still rules and we shouldn't re-adapt till that changes.

 

[The Great Dane]

How can clubs become more viable? Heres some hungover ideas

1. total expenditure cap set at around $23million. Clubs can apply to spend more if A) they can prove they have the revenue to do so (not LC funding) B) they want to spend it on revenue generating activities
2. Set a hard football cap
3. Work together to generate more fan engagement and interest. The biggest potential revenue growth for clubs is to turn the current 15k engaged fan base into a 35k engaged fan base
4. Get a national footprint, if you want to attract decent sponsors we need a national reach for those sponsors
5. The current $3million over player salary part of the grant has to be spent on revenue generating activity
6. Instigate Richo’s jnr plan to reduce jnr spending costs
7. Next tv deal drop fan unfriendly times and go to simucast games at same time slots on fox. 4 games on a Sunday.

8.invest more into marketing, advertising, and match day experience, and less on the football department.

9. allow the clubs to license and produce their own range of merchandise.

 

[Perth Red]

In that scenario Fox is halving their audience

You will never get those size crowds though. Memberships can and are growing.

doesnt matter to them as long as same number of subscribers. So if 400k are watching a game, or 200k are watching two games at same time it’s still the same number of subscribers.

why are those sort of crowds impossible? Surely if the game is popular people will go and watch it? Other sports can achieve 20k plus crowds, why not nrl?

Either you take the tv money and stay same, in which case don’t whinge at nrl spending its money and clubs staying borderline viable, or you take less tv money and work hard to increase fan based revenue. Popular clubs could be earning double the tv grant from fanbase if they built a bigger more engaged fanbase.

 

[hutch]

doesnt matter to them as long as same number of subscribers. So if 400k are watching a game, or 200k are watching two games at same time it’s still the same number of subscribers.

why are those sort of crowds impossible? Surely if the game is popular people will go and watch it? Other sports can achieve 20k plus crowds, why not nrl?

Either you take the tv money and stay same, in which case don’t whinge at nrl spending its money and clubs staying borderline viable, or you take less tv money and work hard to increase fan based revenue. Popular clubs could be earning double the tv grant from fanbase if they built a bigger more engaged fanbase.

We can definitely achieve 20k plus average crowds, we should have done so already.
A better, fan friendly schedule is needed, 22 rounds, modern standiums (In their way) in Sydney with reciprocal membership rights for the bigger hands and upgraded suburban grounds, increased memberships and far lower prices, especially for kids. Done!

 

[The Great Dane]

So many things wrong with this too many to list but here is a few

Clubs should be investing in juniors not the NRL if it isn’t broken why change it? The only RL always has done well is junior development.

Delayed games doesn’t work these days with our population

It is broken though.

The rules of the salary cap disincentivise clubs investing in juniors, which leads to a handful of the clubs doing the lion's share of junior development.

Because The clubs only work within their own little regions there's isn't really a national junior development program, which leads to a patchwork of regions across the country with development programs while most of the country goes almost totally ignored.

I could go on, but suffice it to say that the NRL is the only sporting organisation that I know of where the professional clubs at the top of the pyramid have so much power over player development.

 

[Perth Red]

It is broken though.

The rules of the salary cap disincentivise clubs investing in juniors, which leads to a handful of the clubs doing the lion's share of junior development.

Because The clubs only work within their own little regions there's isn't really a national junior development program, which leads to a patchwork of regions across the country with development programs while most of the country goes almost totally ignored.

I could go on, but suffice it to say that the NRL is the only sporting organisation that I know of where the professional clubs at the top of the pyramid have so much power over player development.

Throwback to justification for running pokie dens, which in itself is a joke when you see how much a lot of these LC’s take in revenue compared to what they spend on jnr football.

 

[The Great Dane]

We can definitely achieve 20k plus average crowds, we should have done so already.
A better, fan friendly schedule is needed, 22 rounds, modern standiums (In their way) in Sydney with reciprocal membership rights for the bigger hands and upgraded suburban grounds, increased memberships and far lower prices, especially for kids. Done!

Upgraded Suburban grounds is a pipe dream (that probably shouldn't happen), and sure make ticket prices more reasonable where possible/necessary, but the clubs can't just keep lowering the prices and giving away free tickets at the drop of a hat, it's not sustainable and in the long run it'll cost the clubs money.

What really needs to change is the match day experience and the price of everything else (i.e. parking and food and drink).
The clubs don't have much control over the later, but they can control the game day experience, and most of them totally suck at it.

Invest in the match day experience and make that $25 ticket worth every penny and people will be happy to pay for it. Demand $25 a ticket, then ask them to sit through crappy ground announcers, local dance schools putting on performances, and under 6s games, with zero atmosphere and they'll go see a movie instead.

 

[gordsy]

I have afl mates and they say two things about going to games. The game is better live and it's tradition in Melbourne to go watches games live. We need to build that tradition. People said origin would be a non event but look at it now. We need to try something.

 

[Perth Red]

Upgraded Suburban grounds is a pipe dream (that probably shouldn't happen), and sure make ticket prices more reasonable where possible/necessary, but the clubs can't just keep lowering the prices and giving away free tickets at the drop of a hat, it's not sustainable and in the long run it'll cost the clubs money.

What really needs to change is the match day experience and the price of everything else (i.e. parking and food and drink).
The clubs don't have much control over the later, but they can control the game day experience, and most of them totally suck at it.

Invest in the match day experience and make that $25 ticket worth every penny and people will be happy to pay for it. Demand $25 a ticket, then ask them to sit through crappy ground announcers, local dance schools putting on performances, and under 6s games, with zero atmosphere and they'll go see a movie instead.

eels have shown with a big stadiums at a decent rent you can make tickets very affordable through membership. Afl attendance is 80% plus ticketed members, very few pay on the day. That’s where we need to be aiming for. I think most would be happy if the nrl subsidised kids membership so it was seriously cheap, we need to engage families and the kids are our next generation of fans. We also don’t take advantage of having nine teams in one city with reciprocal deals to boost attendances in Sydney, partly due to some stadiums being sub 20k capacity.

 

[franklin2323]

It is broken though.

The rules of the salary cap disincentivise clubs investing in juniors, which leads to a handful of the clubs doing the lion's share of junior development.

Because The clubs only work within their own little regions there's isn't really a national junior development program, which leads to a patchwork of regions across the country with development programs while most of the country goes almost totally ignored.

I could go on, but suffice it to say that the NRL is the only sporting organisation that I know of where the professional clubs at the top of the pyramid have so much power over player development.

What club only works in their region?
When the NRL as a whole stops producing talent it is broken

 

[Perth Red]

What club only works in their region?
When the NRL as a whole stops producing talent it is broken

pits very piecemeal and convoluted . You’ve got nrl doing some stuff (DO, schools intro etc) then some areas with LC’s (some with nrl clubs some without) then some areas where nrl clubs are doing stuff on their own, then you’ve got the state leagues getting funding. Throw in touch footy and it’s no wonder no one is quite sure what is or isn’t happening in grassroots land!

 

[franklin2323]

doesnt matter to them as long as same number of subscribers. So if 400k are watching a game, or 200k are watching two games at same time it’s still the same number of subscribers.

why are those sort of crowds impossible? Surely if the game is popular people will go and watch it? Other sports can achieve 20k plus crowds, why not nrl?

Either you take the tv money and stay same, in which case don’t whinge at nrl spending its money and clubs staying borderline viable, or you take less tv money and work hard to increase fan based revenue. Popular clubs could be earning double the tv grant from fanbase if they built a bigger more engaged fanbase.

How many fans subscribe on being every game live. Sponsors because again all 3 games live.

All the regional teams for starters:

0 other pro sport teams in Townsville
GC has AFL and NRL only
Newcastle A League and NRL
Canberra only Brumbies
Wollongong only NBL
Throw in NZ who bring very few fans with them
Melbourne despite being good have very few supporters.

Event games you will draw more but generally 12k is all those will get especially on weeknights BUT sponsors like weeknights and generally pay more

 

[franklin2323]

pits very piecemeal and convoluted . You’ve got nrl doing some stuff (DO, schools intro etc) then some areas with LC’s (some with nrl clubs some without) then some areas where nrl clubs are doing stuff on their own, then you’ve got the state leagues getting funding. Throw in touch footy and it’s no wonder no one is quite sure what is or isn’t happening in grassroots land!

Souths made U’20’s GF last year.
Sharks the year before
Manly made U’18’s GF last year
Bulldogs the year before that

Do you think they get there just by staying in their own areas?

Manly especially have a very small junior base they all raid junior carnivals etc pick the best and develop that.

You can argue whether they get rewarded enough once they get to NRL but can’t argue with talent being produced

 

[greenBV4]

Melbourne despite being good have very few supporters.

Where'd you pull this one from?
Not gonna go searching for it but I've heard before that Storm are one of the most watched on Foxtel, Have have the 3rd highest membership base and claim to have the second largest social media following of all NRL and AFL clubs, they are usually also near the top end of average attendances?

 

[The Great Dane]

Souths made U’20’s GF last year.
Sharks the year before
Manly made U’18’s GF last year
Bulldogs the year before that

Do you think they get there just by staying in their own areas?

Manly especially have a very small junior base they all raid junior carnivals etc pick the best and develop that.

You can argue whether they get rewarded enough once they get to NRL but can’t argue with talent being produced

Sure talent is being produced, but it isn't being produced anywhere near as efficiently as it could be. If you had a nationalised system that funded and supported junior development properly outside of just Qld and parts of NSW, then they'd produce a whole lot more talent.

Also I didn't mean that the clubs don't scout talent, obviously they do, however they almost exclusively scout RL/RU players and only in very specific parts of of country (i.e NSW and Qld), and once scouted the players are almost required to move the clubs little region if they seriously want to pursue a career. They also almost exclusively scout RL and RU competitions in very specific parts of of country (i.e NSW and Qld).