Financial fragility of the game

[titoelcolombiano]

Yeah but people in Adelaide give even less of a f**k then your mates.

That's not exactly true. Adelaide Rams averaged 15k in their first season before the fall-out of the end of the SL war kicked in the year after.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Yep, and that's not bad considering the Rams were pretty average on the field.

There's probably still a latent fan-base in Adelaide, but that the sporadic scheduling of games there means we can't build that.

There is evidence for that. The Roosters have drawn 20k, 17k and 16k to the Adelaide Oval in the last three seasons. That is just a starting point, like the Storm, if you are in it for the long-haul and you become part of the local scene, your following will grow.

The big city markets of Perth and Adelaide are a no-brainer even if RL is not the dominant sport in those markets.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Where'd you pull this one from?
Not gonna go searching for it but I've heard before that Storm are one of the most watched on Foxtel, Have have the 3rd highest membership base and claim to have the second largest social media following of all NRL and AFL clubs, they are usually also near the top end of average attendances?

Yep - Storm are one of the better rating clubs
http://www.footyindustry.com/?p=4923

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Pretty sure they have one of the biggest away fans in the competition

And bring a lot of money to the NRL table because of their presence through Sky Sports NZ

 

[T-Boon]

What does the ideal game day product look like?

1. I would say step one is to improve the game play on the field. The casual sports fan hates wrestling, structure and dull "completions" type football in RL. They hate the dominance of the defense. There needs to be a lot more big plays, explosive action, line breaks, risky play. The game looks boring now, over coached.

2. Make the coaches watch the game from the side lines like American Football. The fans at the ground (rather than the couch potato) should get to see the emotions of the coaches.

3. If you catch the ball in the crowd you keep it.

4. Make the game go longer. Nobody is driving for 90 minutes for 90 minutes worth of entertainment.

 

[10$ Ferret]

All expansion should be focused around junior club land.
build up a base of U6s to opens and then you have your fans.

Start at the NRL level and we all know what happens

 

[10$ Ferret]

That's not exactly true. Adelaide Rams averaged 15k in their first season before the fall-out of the end of the SL war kicked in the year after.

Actually it as only 12K and the first game was 27K .
Not a bad effort but def not 15K average

 

[Perth Red]

All expansion should be focused around junior club land.
build up a base of U6s to opens and then you have your fans.

Start at the NRL level and we all know what happens

excpet Titans have a big jnr base and have been a failure in many ways, Storm few jnrs and very successful top tier club.so there goes that theory lol.

 

[Jamberoo]

1. I would say step one is to improve the game play on the field. The casual sports fan hates wrestling, structure and dull "completions" type football in RL. They hate the dominance of the defense. There needs to be a lot more big plays, explosive action, line breaks, risky play. The game looks boring now, over coached.

2. Make the coaches watch the game from the side lines like American Football. The fans at the ground (rather than the couch potato) should get to see the emotions of the coaches.

3. If you catch the ball in the crowd you keep it.

4. Make the game go longer. Nobody is driving for 90 minutes for 90 minutes worth of entertainment.

Not sure about your first point. SOO are by far the most watched RL matches, (especially outside NSW and QLD where we don’t really care who wins). SOO is generally low scoring and defensive. I think what the casual fan wants is close matches and a great atmosphere. I reckon the o field product is fine. They just need, smaller, better stadiums for the comfort of crowds, and the atmosphere will translate to TV.

 

[T-Boon]

Not sure about your first point. SOO are by far the most watched RL matches, (especially outside NSW and QLD where we don’t really care who wins). SOO is generally low scoring and defensive. I think what the casual fan wants is close matches and a great atmosphere. I reckon the o field product is fine.

The gravitas of state of origin is why people watch it. Not really the spectacle. I also think SOO is living off the 80/90s when it was a pretty great spectacle including the certainty of a big fight.

 

[Perth Red]

Ok so of we are going to get radical in order to reset both club and code financial situations into the future here’s some ideas.

clubs are supposed to be spending $15.9mill on player salary and football dept. reality is this isn’t working, clubs are spending anywhere between $25-40million a year in total with most of them barley breaking even or running at a loss. So we need to get more controlling and radical.

*Clubs to have a hard cap of $15million for players salary and football dept.
they also have a $8million hard cap for all other expenses
*Clubs can apply to the nrl for extra spending on the expenses cap if they can justify why it’s needed and that they can afford it
*Clubs pay their respective state body a license fee of $1million a year (this will reduce the nrl’s expenditure on state leagues)
*Nrl takes back control of membership recruitment and sales and receives a 10% cut to offset investment in significantly growing club membership
*Clubs aim for zero financing from LC’s in order to see more funding going to jnr RL in LC regions
*NRL to set aside a development fund that assists clubs to build asset bases with 0% loans etc
*NRL to set aside $50million a year to build tangible asset base and cash equity
*NRL and clubs to produce detailed annual,financial,reports for stakeholders
*NRL to make two expansion licenses available for sale at $10million each. Income from these sales to be put into a fund to develop future expansion options for the game
*NRL to reduce payments to RLPA and players superann, this should come from salary cap or players own pockets
*Integrity unit costs halved with any sporadic increased expenditure part of fines if clubs or players are investigated and found to be guilty of their crimes.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

why keep bringing up Super League? what's done is done and there is no going back. Any decisions on whether the NRL expands to Perth or Adelaide are not going to factor in something that happened over 20 years ago. It's a blank slate for those places.

It helps us to understand why the game is the way it is today
it helps us understand some of the irrational prejudices that people hold and start to break these down
It shows us the mistakes that were made in the past and how not to repeat them
It shows us the things people wrongly point to as the cause of current issues and the REAL culprits
It is a huge part of RL history and should be embrace positively within the broader stories of the game, the clubs and the rivalries. Not ignored like an infected cut that just rots over time.

 

[Perth Red]

It helps us to understand why the game is the way it is today
it helps us understand some of the irrational prejudices that people hold and start to break these down
It shows us the mistakes that were made in the past and how not to repeat them
It shows us the things people wrongly point to as the cause of current issues and the REAL culprits
It is a huge part of RL history and should be embrace positively within the broader stories of the game, the clubs and the rivalries. Not ignored like an infected cut that just rots over time.

maybe, but you can only blame the past for so long before it becomes an excuse.

 

[Dark Corner]

Nope Junior sport of all codes. Some people still working on Sat arvo,

Thats insane

 

[Dark Corner]

All expansion should be focused around junior club land.
build up a base of U6s to opens and then you have your fans.

Start at the NRL level and we all know what happens

But according to Franklin Junior sports are played at 3pm Saturdays so they be missing out on a game.
I always thought Junior Rugby League was played on a Sunday morning ?

 

[flippikat]

The big city markets of Perth and Adelaide are a no-brainer even if RL is not the dominant sport in those markets.

Yep. That's been the policy of VFL/AFL since the 1980s - get teams in the big cities, regardless of whether it's heartland AFL or not.

A marked contrast to NSWRL/ARL between 1982 and 1995 where places like Canberra, Woolongong, Newcastle & Townsville - mid-size markets in heartland territory - were priorities.

Admittedly those markets are bigger than the AFL heartland markets outside capitals (eg Bendigo, Ballarat, even Hobart).. but still can't overlook that AFL made all the biggest cities a priority - and it's reaped rewards for them.

I'm not begrudging Newcastle, Townsville & Canberra their NRL teams, but it adds pressure on Sydney, because if we want geographical coverage of AFL with a competition of 16-18 clubs that doesn't stretch coaching/player depth, rationalizing Sydney comes into sharp focus.

 

[Angry_eel]

Yep. That's been the policy of VFL/AFL since the 1980s - get teams in the big cities, regardless of whether it's heartland AFL or not.

A marked contrast to NSWRL/ARL between 1982 and 1995 where places like Canberra, Woolongong, Newcastle & Townsville - mid-size markets in heartland territory - were priorities.

Admittedly those markets are bigger than the AFL heartland markets outside capitals (eg Bendigo, Ballarat, even Hobart).. but still can't overlook that AFL made all the biggest cities a priority - and it's reaped rewards for them.

I'm not begrudging Newcastle, Townsville & Canberra their NRL teams, but it adds pressure on Sydney, because if we want geographical coverage of AFL with a competition of 16-18 clubs that doesn't stretch coaching/player depth, rationalizing Sydney comes into sharp focus.

Our admins and clubs also suck at managing small cities. Green Bay is a tiny city in USA, it doesn't even have half a million people but it is known around the world. Buffalo while not a massively successful team is in a smaller city as well. I am sure there are more examples but USA treats clubs like a business and the best admins go into working there.

 

[Perth Red]

Our admins and clubs also suck at managing small cities. Green Bay is a tiny city in USA, it doesn't even have half a million people but it is known around the world. Buffalo while not a massively successful team is in a smaller city as well. I am sure there are more examples but USA treats clubs like a business and the best admins go into working there.

Green bay has a large population reach (around 5million)with couple of hours of stadium. Buffalo is a fair call and probably one of the smallest NFL catchments with around 750k in driving range (Americans will travel for NFL much further)

 

[hrundi99]

But according to Franklin Junior sports are played at 3pm Saturdays so they be missing out on a game.
I always thought Junior Rugby League was played on a Sunday morning ?

Saturday morning to mid-afternoon.

 

[Dragonwest]

All expansion should be focused around junior club land.
build up a base of U6s to opens and then you have your fans.

Start at the NRL level and we all know what happens

Totally disagree. Being in Perth as a junior through the early 90s I can tell you that the addition of the Reds directly lead to the addition of 4 or 5 junior clubs into our competition over a couple of years. All the strong established clubs increases their number and were able to field multiple teams right up to 15s.

It was a well staged inclusion, they slowly ramped up matches in Perth followed by the announcement of the new club. Numbers for seniors and juniors exploded, league grew and pulled away from Rugby Union in the state.

Then we fell way back and are only very slowly growing now. We currently lose a lot of our best junior talent to Union or interstate all the time as we don't have pathway available to them. We also don't retain a lot of players from our 18s into our amateur grades. There is more competition available to them in union.