Financial Plight of Clubs

[hrundi99]

Fact is - sponsorship of Manly is not that attractive for Max Delmege, the club saviour. How can an investment look good to another party when the existing investor wants out?

That's not a fact at all.

Why should he keep putting money in from his own pockets when he can get a third party to do it? Makes perfect sense to me, Einstein.

 

[Man_of_Steel_1982]

Top 10 Cities:

1. Sydney - NRL
2. Melbourne - AFL
3. Brisbane - NRL
4. Perth - AFL
5. Adelaide - AFL
6. Newcastle - NRL
7. Canberra - NRL
8. Gold Coast - NRL
9. Wollongong - NRL
10. Gosford - NRL

 

[Lockyer4President!]

Top 10 Cities:

1. Sydney - NRL
2. Melbourne - AFL
3. Brisbane - NRL
4. Perth - AFL
5. Adelaide - AFL
6. Newcastle - NRL
7. Canberra - NRL
8. Gold Coast - NRL
9. Wollongong - NRL
10. Gosford - NRL

Why not go to the 16 most populous cities just to further embarrass the AFL.

1. Sydney - NRL
2. Melbourne - AFL
3. Brisbane - NRL
4. Perth - AFL
5. Adelaide - AFL
6. Gold Coast - NRL
7. Newcastle - NRL
8. Canberra - NRL
9. Central Coast - NRL
10. Wollongong - NRL
11. Sunshine Coast - NRL
12. Hobart - AFL
13. Geelong - AFL
14. Townsville - NRL
15. Cairns - NRL
16. Toowoomba - NRL

National game... :lol:

 

[Man_of_Steel_1982]

Why not go to the 16 most populous cities just to further embarrass the AFL.

1. Sydney - NRL
2. Melbourne - AFL
3. Brisbane - NRL
4. Perth - AFL
5. Adelaide - AFL
6. Gold Coast - NRL
7. Newcastle - NRL
8. Canberra - NRL
9. Central Coast - NRL
10. Wollongong - NRL
11. Sunshine Coast - NRL
12. Hobart - AFL
13. Geelong - AFL
14. Townsville - NRL
15. Cairns - NRL
16. Toowoomba - NRL

National game... :lol:

And why isn't our game beating it's chest about this??? The AFL plonk two satellite teams in their "developing states" (which no one takes any notice of), states which account for more than half the national population yet WE publicly announce them as the "national game".

The NRL CEO should be the number one salesman for the code, promoting our strengths, talking us up at every opportunity and never giving competing codes a free kick.

 

[adamkungl]

AFLs amazing popularity is built on pure hype. They can market, we can't for sh*t. Simple.

 

[Rockin Ronny]

BUT - the AFL are doing the promotion and backing it up by putting teams in. NRL clubs play interstate to make some money then leave the area alone, without TV coverage, for years. Even in Melbourne, they don't show NRL til midnight.

 

[Rockin Ronny]

That's not a fact at all.

Why should he keep putting money in from his own pockets when he can get a third party to do it? Makes perfect sense to me, Einstein.

You poor,simple fool.

Max has got what he wanted, the trade-off - the property for development. he doesn;t want to sponsor manly any more.

Why? because it was always a charity case because the poor bastards couldn't find a decent sponsor. Now, potential sponsors would say "their only major backer for 3 or 4 years was a Manly tragic". What the hell is so attractive about that?

As the saying goes, the best way to make a small business is to give an idiot like you a big business.

 

[hrundi99]

You poor,simple fool.

Max has got what he wanted, the trade-off - the property for development. he doesn;t want to sponsor manly any more.

Why? because it was always a charity case because the poor bastards couldn't find a decent sponsor. Now, potential sponsors would say "their only major backer for 3 or 4 years was a Manly tragic". What the hell is so attractive about that?

As the saying goes, the best way to make a small business is to give an idiot like you a big business.

f**k off you drip.

You know nothing. I know it hurts.

 

[bobmar28]

All jokes and sledging aside. It's a serious point.

I, and many others, were backing a CC Bears team NOT just because of tradition, feelgood etc. Because millions were spent on a great stadium (which eveyone wants to use), fan support from 2 regions would be huge, corporate support (with or without Singo) was assured. The actions of Gallop and the NRL to keep a CC Bears team drifting in the breeze with no commitment at all is simply unprofessional, incompetent and stops the game progressing. It's plain stupid. The NRL idiots are even trying to cause more pain by thinking a club will pull up roots and go to Gosford.

This is the sort of thinking that is holding the game back.

You know what is holding the game back? Nine teams in Sydney. Merge or relocate some of them and that will free up franchises for expansion.

 

[bobmar28]

Again, it's a feelgood statement - but is it true? Rugby league is played in only 2 states really. AFL has premier teams in WA (2), SA (2), NSW (1, soon 2), Qld (1, maybe 2) and strong links to TAS. It's a truly national game with national exposure. The clubs have executives with strong game tradition and business acumen. They run their own show and negotiate appropriate TV rights deals. We don't even own or run our own game. Support could be measured as "who's prepared to pay" AFL clubs get 20,000+ members paying $300+ per annum. Our game gets 100 members at $10 a pop.

The only profile seen this year is bad behaviour.

Rugby league is in grave danger of being further marginalised - but the capacity to improve and grow is not a priority for News Limited who just want to flog PayTV and get their money back.

Rugby League is played in the 2 states where most Australians live.

 

[bobmar28]

I think the point about Rugby League having a greater profile is referring to the fact that NSW and QLD account for more than half of the national population.

So if Rugby League was run by people with half a brain, they'd ensure we had a decent TV deal that saw coverage Australia wide (complementing our larger "home" territories), a timeline for expansion teams in Perth and eventually Adelaide and then we would really be in the box seat. Even if it means slightly less in a national TV deal, the extra revenue from sponsors of clubs and the game would be huge.

As a side note, I often wonder whether Telstra (who are part owners of FOXTEL) are really the best we can do as the major sponsor of the competition.

Telstra have been pouring money into our game all these years but be careful what you wish for because I think they are terminating their sponsorship at the end of the contract period.

 

[Rockin Ronny]

You know what is holding the game back? Nine teams in Sydney. Merge or relocate some of them and that will free up franchises for expansion.

bobmar

No. Wouldn't matter if there 14 teams in Sydney IF they were properly managed, negotiated decent sponsorship, developed their juniors, developed their memberships - and were backed up by a competent NRL that negotiated a fair dinkum TV rights deal. The game would be great.

If a player is good enough and his manager can negotiate 3rd party deals, then go for it - but players should have base salaries with big incentives for winning and representing etc.

 

[bobmar28]

bobmar

No. Wouldn't matter if there 14 teams in Sydney IF they were properly managed, negotiated decent sponsorship, developed their juniors, developed their memberships - and were backed up by a competent NRL that negotiated a fair dinkum TV rights deal. The game would be great.

If a player is good enough and his manager can negotiate 3rd party deals, then go for it - but players should have base salaries with big incentives for winning and representing etc.

I would rather see a truly national NRL competition than what we now have, which is an extended Sydney suburban competition.

 

[Perth Red]

Biggest difference for me is that with AFL you can turn a TV on anywhere in Australia and watch a game at a sensible time, you can pick up a major newspaper in any city in Australia and read AFL articles. The same is not true for NRL. In many ways we do have the jump on AFL to become a national game but we do not have the resources, leadership or vision to make it happen. AFL is "expanding" into non AFL areas, NRL continues to "expand" within its own heartlands. Also AFL has arguably expanded into non AFL territory more succesfully than NRL has been able to expand into non NRL territory. I am sure if the NRL pumped the amount of money and effort into Melbourne, Perth and Adelaide that the AFL is pumping into non AFL territory the Storm, Reds and Rams would have had as big, if not bigger, profile than the likes of the Swans and Lions.

We all know the causes of the lack of resources and leadership but it doesn't change the reality of what things are right now.

 

[Perth Red]

bobmar

No. Wouldn't matter if there 14 teams in Sydney IF they were properly managed, negotiated decent sponsorship, developed their juniors, developed their memberships - and were backed up by a competent NRL that negotiated a fair dinkum TV rights deal. The game would be great.

If a player is good enough and his manager can negotiate 3rd party deals, then go for it - but players should have base salaries with big incentives for winning and representing etc.

Have to disagree. Sydney seems to be simply not big enough. If Melbourne AFL teams can't survive in a saturated market despite the much bigger $'s and fan base they have what makes you think Sydney teams can? Is there any city in the world that is able to sustain 9 top flight teasm in one code? Sydney has shown that there is a limited fan base for clubs and a limited sponsorship $. At the moment it seems that they are being too diluted. There is also an argument that the amount of Sydney clubs is at the detriment of having the capacity to take the game to other areas. Nor sure if this is true or not but I guess Gallop is reluctanct to see the league have too many teams and there by dilute the TV grants too much.

 

[Rockin Ronny]

Have to disagree. Sydney seems to be simply not big enough. If Melbourne AFL teams can't survive in a saturated market despite the much bigger $'s and fan base they have what makes you think Sydney teams can? Is there any city in the world that is able to sustain 9 top flight teasm in one code? Sydney has shown that there is a limited fan base for clubs and a limited sponsorship $. At the moment it seems that they are being too diluted. There is also an argument that the amount of Sydney clubs is at the detriment of having the capacity to take the game to other areas. Nor sure if this is true or not but I guess Gallop is reluctanct to see the league have too many teams and there by dilute the TV grants too much.

PR

Fact is - Vic and SA are AFL states. NSW and QLD are rugby league states. You will never get sufficient following for non-natural codes to make an incursion worthwhile.

Melbourne is sports mad. But, since inception, the Storm has won 2 premierships and is still an after thought. Melb fans aren't interested unless (1) it gets 40,000+ fans to a ground and (2) it's AFL. It's like trying to convince a gay person to go straight.

before superleague, rugby league was getting some foothold in WA and SA. A gradual growth - but national exposure. the creation of melbourne and eradication of the Reds, Rams and Bears was not abot what was best for the game , it was about what was financially best for News Limited and their croneys like Lachlan Murdoch and John Ribot. it was all about greed.

If a club board is made up of 5 well conected businessmen, 2 high profile ex-players and a chairman who has links with the body running the sport - then you have a club that will prosper. Most boards now carry lightweight seatwarmers who not only do little for the club but put club interests before the game.

It has been said that the biggest obstacle to the CC Bears, despite all the obvious benefits, is that the Sydney clubs fear its success and don;t want it there. how sad is that for the future of the game.

In the AFL, they assist relocation (Swans) or help them through bad times (Bulldogs and Nth melb). In rugby league, they kill off their expansion and traditional teams so Murdoch would pay less in NRL grants then put in team that has zero interest for the locals.

While News Limited runs the game, it will just keep falling away.

 

[Perth Red]

PR

Fact is - Vic and SA are AFL states. NSW and QLD are rugby league states. You will never get sufficient following for non-natural codes to make an incursion worthwhile.

.

Agree with most of that Ronny but not the above bit. RU had zero profile and little in terms of jnrs etc in Perth 10 years ago. This is just (if not more so) a mad AFL city as Melbourne. The RFU have had a concerted effort to raise the profile of the game over the last 7 years leading to the introduction of the Force. They are, within a short period of time, now bigger than most NRL clubs. Same can be said for soccer in Melbourne. I saw how an alien sport like Gridiron developed a huge following in Europe during the 90's.Any sport can be succesful in any city if it has the right money and people backing it.

This isn't about NRL being No1 in Vic, WA and SA it is about it being a strong number 2. AFL know that it will never be No1 in NSW and Q'land, it also knows it doesn't need to be as long as it is strong enough to give it the clout to get better and better $deals.

 

[bluey]

Make no mistake about it, the roosters dropped those teams because tehy dont need them, not because they couldnt afford it. The NRL should make it mandatory that they field teams, because they will end up raiding every other side with the money they save and team after team will follouw suit. Yet again the NRL have failed to enforce a sensible policy.

And thats the truth

 

[Loudstrat]

Originally Posted by Rockin Ronny
BUT - the AFL are doing the promotion and backing it up by putting teams in. NRL clubs play interstate to make some money then leave the area alone, without TV coverage, for years. Even in Melbourne, they don't show NRL til midnight.

The Titans mean nothing to you?

AFL have been trying to own the Gold Coast ever since League expanded there in 1988. That was the first port of call for the Lions, remember. They couldn't last there. For the last 6 years the AFL, with the full support of the anti-League Gold Coast City Council, have tried again - and no team is starting there until next year/2010 (can't recall which). Meanwhile, local League support, backed by the Qld Govt, was enough to get the Titans up and running. Even AFL concedes that the Titans have a huge stranglehold there.

As for Western Sydney - I'd be surprised if it comes off at all.

Biggest difference for me is that with AFL you can turn a TV on anywhere in Australia and watch a game at a sensible time, you can pick up a major newspaper in any city in Australia and read AFL articles.

Again, proves that AFL is not a national comp, but an urban comp. Pick up a paper in Newcastle, Wollongong, Port Maquarie, Coffs Harbour, Gold Coast, Sunshine Coast, Toowoomba, Bundaberg, Rockhampton, Mackay, Townsville or Cairns and find the AFL coverage.

There's 2 million Australian's right there. Or the equivalent of Perth and Adelaide.

So what makes the AFL "National"? Oh yeah. Popular in 3 cities, and a team in 2 others. :lol:

The same is not true for NRL. In many ways we do have the jump on AFL to become a national game but we do not have the resources, leadership or vision to make it happen. AFL is "expanding" into non AFL areas, NRL continues to "expand" within its own heartlands. .

And what does that tell you? That League still has room to expand within it's own heartland, and AFL has already reached it's limits?

League can expand into Central Coast, Sunshinme Coast, Wellington and the Brisbane suburbs and produce sucessful, viable, self sufficient sides. The AFL only ever had 3 spots on the map (one could argue about a combined Ballarat/Bendigo team from a combined popn of 130k I guess, or Hobart)

AFL needs to create new markets or it's f*cked long term. League also needs to expand, but it's not as critical. Nowhere near as dire as the need in AFL.

Agree with most of that Ronny but not the above bit. RU had zero profile and little in terms of jnrs etc in Perth 10 years ago. This is just (if not more so) a mad AFL city as Melbourne. The RFU have had a concerted effort to raise the profile of the game over the last 7 years leading to the introduction of the Force. They are, within a short period of time, now bigger than most NRL clubs.

Bigger in what way? Guiteaus $1m contract - yeah. What are their totalk crowds like? TV ratings? Do they get as much TV and live audience from what, 12 weeks as a Sydney club gets in 26-30?

If their average home crowd is 30-35k, and their TV ratings up around 500-700k per match - then their season aggregate would be on par with Sydney's best. Still falls a sh*tload short of Brisbane, Newy, Titans and Cowpats.

This isn't about NRL being No1 in Vic, WA and SA it is about it being a strong number 2. AFL know that it will never be No1 in NSW and Q'land, it also knows it doesn't need to be as long as it is strong enough to give it the clout to get better and better $deals.

AFL struggles in the fight to be number 3. Union is 2 in terms of adult participation and TV coverage, Soccer pips it for crowds because there are 3 NSW teams instead of one. Soccer at least had the balls to go regional into Gospord and Newy - and soon Gold Coast.

Soccer is the real national sport - in terms of the access the most fans have to their side. Soccer is AFL, plus the regional presence that the AFL will never have the balls to do.

Think of the districts that are served by the 4 codes at the elite domestic level: Perth, Adelaide, Geelong, Melbourne, Canberra, Wollonging, Sydney, Central Coast, Newcastle, Gold Coast, Brisbane, North Queensland.

Of those 12 locations:
AFL is king in 4 - has a presence in 2. Ignores 6 (soon to be in Gold Coast)
League is king in 6 - equal top in Canberra and Central Coast with Union and Soccer respectively. Presence in another 1. Ignores 3
Soccer is arguably biggest on the Central Coast, but has a presence in another 7. Ignores 4 (soon to be in NQ so I believe)
Union is king in none - has a presence in 4, ignores 8.

League and soccer clearly lead the way. AFL is a long way behind in the race to service the sporting needs of Australia's public.

 

[KalgoorlieRed]

You know what is holding the game back? Nine teams in Sydney. Merge or relocate some of them and that will free up franchises for expansion.

Spot on fella.