Five Years To Fix Knights

[macavity]

The big question is.... is it going to take longer to fix us on the park or off it?

The team is struggling at the moment, but much more concerning to my mind is the complete lack of engagement and care in the town these days.

Don't believe me, look at the lack of a major sponsor, the empty corporate boxes, the empty stands, the near death of this forum, and the fact that now-days the away crowd is often louder than the home crowd at Marathon. Could you imagine any of that even 5 years ago?

It seems even when we turn up we don't care that much.

A bunch of us tried for nearly 10 years to get some active support going, and we were finally getting there with a band and a pretty decent visual and aural presence in 2011 - and then the Tinkler lackies completely pulled the rug out and actively tried to kill it. Well, they succeeded, and now the place sounds like a morgue even when we are winning.

But at least the crowd is easy to control as they head for the exits early, and the knitting nanas don't drop a stitch because someone dared make some noise.

Tinkler has broken the link between the team and the town, I hope not irreparably.

Whoever takes over has a mountain to climb in pretty much every way. I can guarantee the fan base is the last thing they are thinking about though.

I am glad Tinkler is gone, because honestly I was starting to hate my club. Those of us here will be easy to win over, but how do the new mob win back those who maybe didn't turn up to every game but at least used to wish the club well.... but now just don't GAF? In other words, 90% of the town.

Furious.

 

[macavity]

And I can back Duck on the wrestling issue.

Under Smithy and Stone our defence was heading in the right direction because we had a pair of wrestlers who understood footy and helped out for the love of the club. Both had larger offers from Sydney clubs to drop us but stayed solid because they were fans first.

Bennett pretty much wiped them from the club the minute he took over... and all of a sudden our contact becomes a joke.

 

[Joker's Wild]

Where does this refusal to have a wrestling coach thing come from. It's wrong.

He has been quoted in the media saying as much

 

[Joker's Wild]

The big question is.... is it going to take longer to fix us on the park or off it?

The team is struggling at the moment, but much more concerning to my mind is the complete lack of engagement and care in the town these days.

Don't believe me, look at the lack of a major sponsor, the empty corporate boxes, the empty stands, the near death of this forum, and the fact that now-days the away crowd is often louder than the home crowd at Marathon. Could you imagine any of that even 5 years ago?

It seems even when we turn up we don't care that much.

A bunch of us tried for nearly 10 years to get some active support going, and we were finally getting there with a band and a pretty decent visual and aural presence in 2011 - and then the Tinkler lackies completely pulled the rug out and actively tried to kill it. Well, they succeeded, and now the place sounds like a morgue even when we are winning.

But at least the crowd is easy to control as they head for the exits early, and the knitting nanas don't drop a stitch because someone dared make some noise.

Tinkler has broken the link between the team and the town, I hope not irreparably.

Whoever takes over has a mountain to climb in pretty much every way. I can guarantee the fan base is the last thing they are thinking about though.

I am glad Tinkler is gone, because honestly I was starting to hate my club. Those of us here will be easy to win over, but how do the new mob win back those who maybe didn't turn up to every game but at least used to wish the club well.... but now just don't GAF? In other words, 90% of the town.

Furious.

The crowd stuff is game wide. Even here in Brissy crowds are down and enthusiasm is low.

 

[aqua_duck]

And I can back Duck on the wrestling issue.

Under Smithy and Stone our defence was heading in the right direction because we had a pair of wrestlers who understood footy and helped out for the love of the club. Both had larger offers from Sydney clubs to drop us but stayed solid because they were fans first.

Bennett pretty much wiped them from the club the minute he took over... and all of a sudden our contact becomes a joke.

Yep, Graham and Grant Lawrence did a great job, I'm not sure on Grant's credentials but Graham's credentials are top shelf and he has a rugby league background to boot. From what I was told Graham was brought in last year half way through the year after Stone and Bedsy had managed to convince Bennett, Graham said the whole time he was there Bennett pretty much shunned him, told him to do what he had to do and left it at that, never asked for feed back, hardly ever spoke to him the entire time and ditched him as soon as he could

 

[macavity]

The crowd stuff is game wide. Even here in Brissy crowds are down and enthusiasm is low.

The big difference is Brissie is down because they are used to winning a comp every few years and suddenly they aren't.

We aren't used to dominating - but we are used to feeling like the team is ours.

 

[Noname36]

I never once said our position is the sole fault of the coach, but his lack of a modern style game plan, refusal to have a wrestling coach and sticking with Gids at hooker for over half a season has contributed to our position on the table. I've said many times if we were say 12th or 13th, I'd be ok with that considering the circumstances but that's just a pipedream at present, we're last. To me a winning percentage of 43% over a period of 2.5 years is hardly acceptable for any coach (Elliot got sacked with 45% win percentage) especially the highest paid coach in history. I'd also be more acceptable of our position if we had a young team but we have a dad's army of a team that's going to need a major overhaul for any incoming coach if Bennett doesn't stay.
Let's not muck around, in all honesty we'll need atleast 5 or 6 new signings to be contenders next year, that's a predicament that is probably worse than most sides hence why I say we're abit of a mess on the field. Also would you keep Bennett on his current deal for next year?

When everyone lays the boot into Bennett for his decisions, there never seems to be any acknowledgement of the context of when he made them or the reasoning behind it. You criticise our "Dads army" squad but they were the blokes that got us within a win of the GF last season. Watch our finals wins last year. It was all Smith, it was all Scott, Bedsy, Mase and even Hilder. They did it all. We have a lot of young blokes at the club, but they have to learn from someone. If you can't see their value, listen to how Rochow or Sims or Tapine talk about them and how easy they've made their transitions into FG.

We've tried to make some younger forward signings, but they didn't happen. Young blokes won't play in Newcastle if they can stay in Sydney. We signed a good young prop in Packer but we had to sack him. We sacked another young prop in Tets. We lost another young forward to a career ending injury. We've tried to sign younger players to replace the older members of our pack but it hasn't happened. As a result we've been relying on our younger players at the club to come in...and I for one am bloody happy they've got experience around to guide them. I'd much rather them learn from the likes of Smith and Scott than Ciraldo or Tolar I know that.

And re Gidley playing hooker: context is everything. Gids has been injured for two years. We learnt to play without him. When he came back in we'd just lost Bedsy and we didn't have anyone else to play there. Who would have you selected? Waddell? Hilder? Cuthbertson? Clydesdale wasn't ready yet to start or play long minutes. He didn't even have an off season. When I played footy (not professionally obviously) it was at hooker and it's the most physically demanding position there is. Bennett did the right thing by Clydesdale, and I'd happily cop a couple of losses (and there's no guarantee we would have won any more games with him as starting hooker anyway) if it meant we didn't set him back or hurt his career. I wish someone had have taken that much care of Mullo or Snowy instead of just getting thrown the to wolves the way they were so young. It absolutely set their development back and screwed them up for a long time.

And also, our defence was no better under Stoney so let's not exaggerate there. Yes it was very good under Smith but given the results the same wrestling coach got under Stone it's debatable whether the wrestling coach was the reason for our good defence during the Smith years or Smith himself. I think we absolutely need a wrestling coach (as much as I hate what the wrestle has done to the game) but I don't think Bennett not using one is the be all and end all of our defensive decline this year.

 

[TooheysNew]

He has been quoted in the media saying as much

Where? Not doubting you, im just genuinely curious because I know the club definitely has someone coaching wrestling at the moment.

 

[aqua_duck]

Where? Not doubting you, im just genuinely curious because I know the club definitely has someone coaching wrestling at the moment.

The boys kind of teach themselves ATM under the supervision of coaching staff but there's a big difference between that and having a specialist wrestling coach

 

[aqua_duck]

When everyone lays the boot into Bennett for his decisions, there never seems to be any acknowledgement of the context of when he made them or the reasoning behind it. You criticise our "Dads army" squad but they were the blokes that got us within a win of the GF last season. Watch our finals wins last year. It was all Smith, it was all Scott, Bedsy, Mase and even Hilder. They did it all. We have a lot of young blokes at the club, but they have to learn from someone. If you can't see their value, listen to how Rochow or Sims or Tapine talk about them and how easy they've made their transitions into FG.

We've tried to make some younger forward signings, but they didn't happen. Young blokes won't play in Newcastle if they can stay in Sydney. We signed a good young prop in Packer but we had to sack him. We sacked another young prop in Tets. We lost another young forward to a career ending injury. We've tried to sign younger players to replace the older members of our pack but it hasn't happened. As a result we've been relying on our younger players at the club to come in...and I for one am bloody happy they've got experience around to guide them. I'd much rather them learn from the likes of Smith and Scott than Ciraldo or Tolar I know that.

And re Gidley playing hooker: context is everything. Gids has been injured for two years. We learnt to play without him. When he came back in we'd just lost Bedsy and we didn't have anyone else to play there. Who would have you selected? Waddell? Hilder? Cuthbertson? Clydesdale wasn't ready yet to start or play long minutes. He didn't even have an off season. When I played footy (not professionally obviously) it was at hooker and it's the most physically demanding position there is. Bennett did the right thing by Clydesdale, and I'd happily cop a couple of losses (and there's no guarantee we would have won any more games with him as starting hooker anyway) if it meant we didn't set him back or hurt his career. I wish someone had have taken that much care of Mullo or Snowy instead of just getting thrown the to wolves the way they were so young. It absolutely set their development back and screwed them up for a long time.

And also, our defence was no better under Stoney so let's not exaggerate there. Yes it was very good under Smith but given the results the same wrestling coach got under Stone it's debatable whether the wrestling coach was the reason for our good defence during the Smith years or Smith himself. I think we absolutely need a wrestling coach (as much as I hate what the wrestle has done to the game) but I don't think Bennett not using one is the be all and end all of our defensive decline this year.

I don't disagree with you re the contribution of Smith and Mason, etc but they were always going to be short term fixes and to compound them by signing up guys like Judas, Tahu, etc is what I don't agree with. To me having so many old guys was always going to create a vacuum and tha vacuum has come about quicker than we thought it would.
In regards to Clydesdale, there's a big difference between Clydesdale's situation and that of Mullen and Snowden, the latter two were 18 when they were thrown in, Clydesdale is 21 and I'm not saying he should've been given 80 mins but surely more than 20? I mean when a bloke is getting 20 mins and Gids 70 lets not pretend it was for Clydesdale's development

 

[TooheysNew]

The boys kind of teach themselves ATM under the supervision of coaching staff but there's a big difference between that and having a specialist wrestling coach

Its not really like that at allt. May have been before, but not now.

 

[aqua_duck]

Its not really like that at allt. May have been before, but not now.

Maybe things have changed but only about a month ago, Graham told me Robbie Rochow was contacting him about private sessions. Maybe we have a coach who may not be as credentialed?

 

[TooheysNew]

Maybe things have changed but only about a month ago, Graham told me Robbie Rochow was contacting him about private sessions. Maybe we have a coach who may not be as credentialed?

Correct.

 

[aqua_duck]

So we have someone who coaches wrestling but isn't the best man for the job?

 

[TooheysNew]

I didn't comment as to his quality at all, I just said that he wasn't as credentialed. Didn't have as many bits of paper.

 

[The Showstopper]

Some claim lifting is rampant due to a crackdown on late leg contact in the wrestle. Maybe. I still say Bennett is correct in his views. He believes a disciplined side can beat a side who wrestles in the ruck. Our contact is more attitude than coaching. It is interesting though our finals form and the imvolvement of a wrestling coach. There is definitely a argument for Aqua there. I can only assume Wayne had a change of heart at the last minute and saw him compromising his views by allowing it. I can see where Aqua is coming from.

 

[aqua_duck]

The thing is I don't know why wrestling and discipline are seperate things, IMO they go hand in hand, a team wrestles well can slow down the PTB legitimately and it results in less offloads conceded, more dominant tackles and just more blokes put on their back, a team that doesn't wrestle well has to account for those things in other ways, like holding down or get killed by quick PTBs.
I'm not ignorant enough to believe that if we wrestled better and had a credentialed wrestling coach like say Manly, Souths, Storm, Bulldogs, etc we'd all of a sudden be world beaters but I do believe that those clubs employ those particular guys for a reason.
Not everyone agrees with me obviously but all I'm doing is questioning the job Bennett has done thus far. When Bennett signed a lot of people thought we'd be a powerhouse, I personally had more modest and realistic expectations and they definitely haven't been met thus my questioning of Bennett. If we change Bennett's name to B.Smith do people think he'd be given anywhere near as much leeway?

 

[Noname36]

If we change Bennett's name to B.Smith do people think he'd be given anywhere near as much leeway?

Um, we gave Smithy a heap of leeway. First year here we were one loss off the spoon. Following year he replaced all the nuffies with a different bunch of nuffies and we performed slightly better but still didn't make the semis. 2009 we looked good, but still he chose to leave before he achieved anything with us. So yeah, one potentially good year, one average year, and one awful year (sounds familiar doesn't it?) - but if I recall most of us were devastated when he said he was leaving.

So in answer to your question - yes.

Re the wrestling: it's a terrible part of the game that has killed the attacking quality we used to see. If it were up to me it would be bloody eradicated. I have to wonder what people will think of Bellamy's legacy when looking back on it in the future.

Still though I understand that as awful as it is, you have to buy into it or get left behind. Bennett is obviously strongly against it, but if he's still willing to put those feelings aside and have someone coach it (which we now know he does) then I'm not sure why he has to keep copping shit for it.

 

[aqua_duck]

Um, we gave Smithy a heap of leeway. First year here we were one loss off the spoon. Following year he replaced all the nuffies with a different bunch of nuffies and we performed slightly better but still didn't make the semis. 2009 we looked good, but still he chose to leave before he achieved anything with us. So yeah, one potentially good year, one average year, and one awful year (sounds familiar doesn't it?) - but if I recall most of us were devastated when he said he was leaving.

So in answer to your question - yes.

Re the wrestling: it's a terrible part of the game that has killed the attacking quality we used to see. If it were up to me it would be bloody eradicated. I have to wonder what people will think of Bellamy's legacy when looking back on it in the future.

Still though I understand that as awful as it is, you have to buy into it or get left behind. Bennett is obviously strongly against it, but if he's still willing to put those feelings aside and have someone coach it (which we now know he does) then I'm not sure why he has to keep copping shit for it.

Smithy stepped in with a completely different set of circumstances. He had the best player in history retire 2 games into his tenure, also that first year he had the worst injury toll I can remember, used something like 37 players that year due to retirements, injuries, judas Newton, etc. I mean that's every bloke in your reserve grade side getting a run and then the fringe reserve graders in top of that. If there was ever an understandable wooden spoon that was it. In 2008 we finished 9th on 28 points which would get you into the top 8 most years. Smith also wasn't on anywhere near as much money, didn't have anything like the resources and facilities and a team that was a lot younger and in a genuine rebuild.
In regards to wrestling, whether we agree with it or not is not the question, it's a part of the game and teams need to buy into it. I mean I don't necessarily agree with having to pay as much tax as I do but doesn't mean I can just avoid it, to counter it I go see a good accountant. In my view a good wrestling good and buying into the wrestle is the equivalent.

 

[Nuffy]

The Sunday tele is suggesting that Quayle is in line to be the new Chairman of the club.

Seems like a good idea.

Can't find the article online.