Fox Soccer

[PacificCoastRL]

All of you who are now coming to the defense of Niu and the AMNRL have given no evidence as to why the USARL players should be excluded. You have only expressed your opinions. As for a few others - billy2, DaBears, Bucks County Sharks, I'm looking at you - your silence speaks volumes. From everything I've seen, read or heard, everyone, no matter what competition the play in, are eligible to play for the Tomahawks, providing the meet a few other requirements. Everyone that is, except those that played for a USARL team. Heck, I even meet the requirements. I'm a Canadian, but my grandmother was born in Minnesota. So that makes me eligible. I'm 56-years old, haven't played a game of rugby league in my life, but I'm still eligible. I might have to pay some registration fees and the like, but I'm still eligible. I played as many AMNRL games as Apple Pope did last year, so I guess I'm okay on that front. Of course, if I had Spinner sign me up for a trial game that would screw my chances I suppose. The funny thing is, it would take only one man's say-so to make the USARL players eligible.

 

[billy2]

My silence says that this argument does nothing but harm to the sport and i'd be quite happy if everyone would STFU.
The usual whiners provoke a response from me when i see some particularly hateful and harmful rhetoric from them, but overall, throwing oil on the flames is not something i want to do.
Destroying the game in the US is not something i want to be part of.

 

[PacificCoastRL]

Telling the truth is not wrong is it? Telling the truth isn't throwing oil on flames. Or is it? The argument can be put to bed if everyone knew the facts pertaining to these exclusions.

 

[Evil Homer]

My silence says that this argument does nothing but harm to the sport and i'd be quite happy if everyone would STFU.
The usual whiners provoke a response from me when i see some particularly hateful and harmful rhetoric from them, but overall, throwing oil on the flames is not something i want to do.
Destroying the game in the US is not something i want to be part of.

There is no 'harmful rhetoric', just the truth, which you and the other AMNRL sympathisers seem to be unwilling to admit. Nobody on this forum can 'destroy the game', the only people capable of that are those in the USA who continue to do the wrong thing and expect not to be held accountable for their actions. I think you are an absolute hypocrite.

 

[Evil Homer]

I would blame the "heads" of the clubs that formed an unsanctioned league for not taking it to the players for a vote. They should have said that by forming a league that is unrecognized there is a danger that you will not be able to play in the World Cup. Do you still want us to do this.

If I was a player in the USARL, I would blame the head of your club.

The NRL deal with David Niu because he is the most credible Rugby League person in the US, they know this, despite what the 8 people on this forum will keep trying to spin.

Maybe you would be better blaming the 'head' of the league who was and still is completely unopen to any sort of democratic process. The hypocrisy of you calling for any sort of vote is beyond laughable. FWIW, any player that had an issue could quite easily have switched to an AMNRL team. The fact that few did and the AMNRL could barely run a league despite attepting to bribe players with national selection speaks volumes about your organization.

Just finally, when has the NRL dealt with David Niu? Why would the head of a developing RL competition want to have any dealings with the NRL when his own competition is struggling to get off the ground? And apart from the Australia match in 2004, has anything productive come of these 'dealings'? Or is Niu more interested in brown-nosing and self-promotion than actually developing the game?

 

[Fatwing15]

Go the Sharks! You boys are the best. Wonder why you've never won single Championship despite the fact that you are one of the oldest clubs in the USA? You play the same you talk, sitting on the fence wondering when the ball is going to bounce your way. When it doesn't, you talk shit all the while pissing and moaning. You never win big and your losing never cuts deep enough. Until you pricks take a side and I mean "stand for what believe" then go on making the numbers.

You know you are so stop listening to this bullshit, grow the game!

You are attacking a team that has pretty good relationships with clubs in both comps and is always competitive without heavily relying on foreign players. I think The Sharks a playing this about as well as any one can. Kind of curious what you are referring too when you say "talk shit while pissing and moaning". Is this a common feeling towards the Sharks? They haven't had any players selected to the Tomahawks either.

 

[DaBears]

Maybe you would be better blaming the 'head' of the league who was and still is completely unopen to any sort of democratic process. The hypocrisy of you calling for any sort of vote is beyond laughable. FWIW, any player that had an issue could quite easily have switched to an AMNRL team. The fact that few did and the AMNRL could barely run a league despite attepting to bribe players with national selection speaks volumes about your organization.

Just finally, when has the NRL dealt with David Niu? Why would the head of a developing RL competition want to have any dealings with the NRL when his own competition is struggling to get off the ground? And apart from the Australia match in 2004, has anything productive come of these 'dealings'? Or is Niu more interested in brown-nosing and self-promotion than actually developing the game?

Again I ask E Homer, are you part of Rugby League here in the USA?
If you have ever met Nui, he is far from a self promoter.

You mentioned earlier that the AMNRL is the laughing stock of the RL community, so if thats true why would Gallop(IMHO runs the best RL comp) want to deal with them on any level.

To get the best Rugby League team in the world to come to the states for a 1 off exhibition is no small feat. To dismiss it as such shows how no matter what the league accomplishes, haters will never be satisfied.

Now, I'm not in the know with all the dealings that go on & only speak periodically with friends still involved in the league, but apart from that game, I know of one AMNRL coach that was & maybe still in constant contact with Brian Smith, who was getting help with coaching. Other coaches have stopped by during the off season for 1 off clinics.... I'm sure they help out in other ways but the fact there is a relationship at all speaks for itself.

 

[DaBears]

Go the Sharks! You boys are the best. Wonder why you've never won single Championship despite the fact that you are one of the oldest clubs in the USA? You play the same you talk, sitting on the fence wondering when the ball is going to bounce your way. When it doesn't, you talk shit all the while pissing and moaning. You never win big and your losing never cuts deep enough. Until you pricks take a side and I mean "stand for what believe" then go on making the numbers.

You know you are so stop listening to this bullshit, grow the game!

You obviously don't know anything at all about the Sharks as a club or how they play the game.

 

[DaBears]

Some of you are still missing the point in all of this. Players are being excluded from the Tomahawks because they play in the USARL. It's great if Niu and the rest with the AMNRL have pulled this Fox Sports thing off. Wonderful, and you can laud them all you like. But, could somebody answer this - Billy2, DaBears, or any others - Why are these players being excluded? Do you agree with their exclusion? What can be done to change this policy?

I can't answer for the AMNRL. In a perfect world everyone would be eligible to play & both comps would have a working relationship for the betterment of the game.

In my opinion, both comps are in competition with one another, and just like in business, if you have an advantage in some area, you're not going to hand that advantage over to your competition in the spirit of fairness.

I know its unfair for players deserving on national selection, but if you look at it as a purely business point of view, its a rather big advantage.

For example, and I don't know if this at all is the real reason...but a team like Utah who was with the USARL before switching to the AMNRL (or back to them) saw that as a recruiting tool for good players they need to offer a path to the Tomahawks for their players. Now if they only have 1 choice and that's to join the AMNRL, then the USARL doesn't have an answer to compete with that.... big advantage to AMNRL
Same can be said for new teams looking to start up... ala Hawaii Harlequins & the new Mid -West teams.

I am not saying its a great deal for the sport of League here in the States but as a business strategy you can see the advantage... I couldn't fault the USARL doing the same thing if they held the same advantage...its just smart business and in today's world, sport is a business.

 

[deluded pom?]

...its just smart business and in today's world, sport is a business.

I understand where you are coming from but PROFESSIONAL sport is a business. This is, on the whole , park football where players pay to play not get paid to play.

 

[Evil Homer]

Again I ask E Homer, are you part of Rugby League here in the USA?
If you have ever met Nui, he is far from a self promoter.

I clearly do not live in the USA, I don't see how that is of any relevance at all to any of the points I have raised.

You mentioned earlier that the AMNRL is the laughing stock of the RL community, so if thats true why would Gallop(IMHO runs the best RL comp) want to deal with them on any level.

When has Gallop had dealings with the AMNRL? Again, I ask why the AMNRL would be interested in dealing with any Australian bodies when they are barely able to administrate their own competition?

To get the best Rugby League team in the world to come to the states for a 1 off exhibition is no small feat. To dismiss it as such shows how no matter what the league accomplishes, haters will never be satisfied.

I was extremely satisfied with the USA vs Australia match. That was 8 years ago, with a unified competition and under completely different circumstances. I've already praised much of the work that the (unified) AMNRL did prior to 2010, that doesn't excuse the damage they are doing to the game now. I do know from a number of sources that the last couple of international events hosted by the (new) AMNRL have been completely shambolic, and that is of much more relevance than the fact that they were able to hold an excellent event 8 years ago.

Now, I'm not in the know with all the dealings that go on & only speak periodically with friends still involved in the league, but apart from that game, I know of one AMNRL coach that was & maybe still in constant contact with Brian Smith, who was getting help with coaching. Other coaches have stopped by during the off season for 1 off clinics.... I'm sure they help out in other ways but the fact there is a relationship at all speaks for itself.

OK, so 'David Niu's dealings with the NRL' that Mr Knight was alluding to consist of an AMNRL coach talking to Brian Smith and occasional off-season coaching clinics. I'm pretty sure I could get coaching advice from Brian Smith, but the second part is a positive, and although many developing nations do the same I won't belittle those achievements. But what does inviting professional coaches achieve when there are hardly any teams and vast majority of players do not want to play in that competition?

It seems to me that David Niu and the AMNRL's priorities lie in self-validation through dealing with 'names', rather than building a strong domestic competition and developing the sport which is what they should be doing. They seem to want to be top RL administrators without actually wanting to put in any of the work to get there. The fact that they were willing to compromise their integrity and deliberately damage the game rather than accept a leadership challenge, to me seems like a pretty clear sign that they are in it for themselves and because they feel they can make personal gains rather than because they genuinely want to develop the sport. That at is my criticism of the AMNRL's regime and management style. The exclusion of players is a completely different issue. As I said earlier, I could quite easily overlook the former if it wasn't for the latter.

 

[Evil Homer]

I can't answer for the AMNRL. In a perfect world everyone would be eligible to play & both comps would have a working relationship for the betterment of the game.

In my opinion, both comps are in competition with one another, and just like in business, if you have an advantage in some area, you're not going to hand that advantage over to your competition in the spirit of fairness.

I know its unfair for players deserving on national selection, but if you look at it as a purely business point of view, its a rather big advantage.

For example, and I don't know if this at all is the real reason...but a team like Utah who was with the USARL before switching to the AMNRL (or back to them) saw that as a recruiting tool for good players they need to offer a path to the Tomahawks for their players. Now if they only have 1 choice and that's to join the AMNRL, then the USARL doesn't have an answer to compete with that.... big advantage to AMNRL
Same can be said for new teams looking to start up... ala Hawaii Harlequins & the new Mid -West teams.

I am not saying its a great deal for the sport of League here in the States but as a business strategy you can see the advantage... I couldn't fault the USARL doing the same thing if they held the same advantage...its just smart business and in today's world, sport is a business.

So you admit that the AMNRL are excluding players because they are desperate to hang onto influence and power and are willing to operate unfairly and undemocratically in order to do so. Does this suggest to you that they are confident in their own merits as administrators, or that they are fully aware of the fact that, on a level playing field, they would be removed from power? If they had the best interests of the game at heart, do you think they would want to hang on to power despite the fact that they are seemingly well aware that the majority do not want them there? You've claimed that Niu is not a self-promoter, but since there is no money involved I can't think of any other explanation for him behaving in the way that you have just stated.

 

[DaBears]

I understand where you are coming from but PROFESSIONAL sport is a business. This is, on the whole , park football where players pay to play not get paid to play.

Hey Pom,

I think both leagues long term goals are to operate a professional comp...if not it should be.
I'm also talking way way down the track.

 

[PacificCoastRL]

Hey Pom,

I think both leagues long term goals are to operate a professional comp...if not it should be.
I'm also talking way way down the track.

And I'm talking about right now. You can talk all you like about this being a business. But right now it's not. It is sport. And everything I have learnt in sport goes against what Niu and company are doing. This isn't about business this is about treating human beings in a decent manner.

 

[PacificCoastRL]

I would blame the "heads" of the clubs that formed an unsanctioned league for not taking it to the players for a vote. They should have said that by forming a league that is unrecognized there is a danger that you will not be able to play in the World Cup. Do you still want us to do this.

If I was a player in the USARL, I would blame the head of your club.

The NRL deal with David Niu because he is the most credible Rugby League person in the US, they know this, despite what the 8 people on this forum will keep trying to spin.

I'll quote from a sports radio show I listen to in my area. "You couldn't be more wrong if you were Mr. Wrong, the mayor of Wrongville."

 

[clarency]

I can't answer for the AMNRL. In a perfect world everyone would be eligible to play & both comps would have a working relationship for the betterment of the game.

You don't need a perfect world for that... just an administration that isn't corrupt.

 

[Choo Choo]

What's the history?

I remember in the mid 2000's Nui & co were meeting with Fox & others all the time. I believe Spike TV was the last network that I remember that went further than a meet n greet.
Yes, nothing came from these meeting beyond making connection & planting seeds to revisit in the future....but you cant seriously knock the guys for trying... At least they got a foot in the door.

I personally was with a group of AMNRL folks who met with L Murdoch... it was drinks but he certainly new of our agenda by the end of the night.

It wouldn't matter what evidence surfaced...the haters will continue to hate.

If you read my entire post, you will see that I said good on them if they pulled it off. Also, go through my posts and see that even though I'm with the Slayers, I continually give credit to Niu for his accomplishments.

I've been on the receiving end of too many AMNRL promises that did not pan out, so you must understand my apprehension.

 

[gutterfax]

http://www.londonbroncosrl.com/news/4292.php
GOOD NEWS....

 

[Evil Homer]

Great news.

 

[Steve Davy]

http://www.foxsoccerplus.com/

Yay!