France may join expanded league Tri-Nations

[PARRA_FAN]

I personally like the idea of including a 4th team, in that in France. They are I think ranked around 4th or 5th, and have been quite competitive in the last few years. Ok, you might expect to see blowouts, but give it a couple of years and the scores could become closer. As someone mentioned, it didnt hurt Union to put Italy in their 6 nations, and now theyre going alright. I dont know if theyve won a game yet, but the results are pretty close as far as I know.

Hows this for a format, say the first one will be staged over there, however the NZL/AUS games will obviously be played in New Zealand and Australia.

1. Australia Vs New Zealand- Melbourne/Syd
2. New Zealand Vs Australia- Auckland/ Welling

Then both teams fly to Europe, now if the SL season finished 1-2 weeks earlier, then the GB/France games will be played at the same time as the Aus/NZL games.

3. GB Vs FRance- St Helens/Leeds
4. France Vs GB- Perpignan/ Toulouse

Then of course all four teams are over there play teams twice, and lets say GB plays Australia first, NZL plays FRance in France on the same weekend, and so forth with the other games.

Every weekend over there we'll see two games played at the same time, so they go into December.

Thats not a bad format, I wish we could see that but it wouldnt surprise me if they just allowed teams to play each other once.

If this occured in 2009, I wonder when we'll see the Ashes again.

 

[Quidgybo]

I disagree. The presence of the final in 2004 meant that GB won the most pool games but lost the tournament. The presence of the final in 2005 meant that Australia won the most games but lost a one off match and thus lost the series.

So? As with the premiership, it isn't who finishes on top, it's who wins the Final.

As for dead rubber, the presence of a final gave us a dead rubber GB-NZ game 6 in 2004. That refutes your point.

No it doesn't. I said the tournament never ends with dead rubbers, not that it never has dead rubbers. With a final, the tournament always finishes with a live match.

Aus could lose the last four, and NZ could win the last four, leaving it decided on points differential, meaning how they perform in every single game becomes crucial.

You've missed my point. Using your example fixture list...

October 23-25
England vs France - England Win
New Zealand vs Australia - Australia Win

Oct 30-Nov 1
France vs England - France Wins
Australia vs New Zealand - Australia Win

Nov 6-8
Australia vs France - Australia Win
New Zealand vs England - New Zealand Win

Nov 13-15
Australia vs England - Australia Win
NZ vs France - New Zealand Win

Nov 20-22
England vs New Zealand - England Win
France vs Australia - Who cares

Nov 27-29
England vs Australia - Who cares
France vs New Zealand - Who cares



​

In this case the last three matches of the tournament, including the entire last week, are dead rubbers. But if there's a Final then the France vs Australia match is live because France can still win two matches to make the Final. And both the last two matches are live for a variety of reasons. I'm not suggesting the results couldn't fall so these matches are still dead rubbers but at least they wouldn't be dead rubbers in a dead tournament. A Final ensures the tournament always ends with a bang, not a potential whimper.

The final is not what sets RL's 3N apart from RU, its the quality of play. The presence of a final is contrived and a theft from cricket - its ok for a RLWC, but isn't unnecessary for 3N and test RL. In 2005, Kangaroos played the Kiwis four times in the season by having a final.

Contrived it may be, but no more so than the NRL Finals and the Grand Final - the pinacle event of the Rugby League calendar. The event fans will undertake a pilgrimage to see, the event unparalled numbers watch on TV, the event even non RL fans take notice of and the event for which sponsors and TV networks are willing to pay thru the nose. This year the Storm lost despite having run away with the minor premiership (effectively relegating the last few rounds to dead rubbers). But we all understand that's not the point, the Finals and the Grand Final are what counts. Getting to the finals and the Grand Final is half the battle, winning it is the other half. So it is with the Tri-Nations.

The addition of a final, in fact, diminishes test RL. The round robin tri nations aren't a means towards an end (the final) - they ARE the end. The Tri Nations should be the stepping stone towards getting 4, 5, then 6 national teams in the elite tier playing each other at home and away, each year.

I don't get how a final diminshes that aim. Surely the two points are largely unrelated. Teams play each other home and away in a round robin format with the tournament acting as a stepping stone to intoduce 4, 5 and then 6 national teams... and the tournament has a final. How does that last point take away from the others?

Leigh.

 

[Quidgybo]

OK this is going to be a long post so stick with me. These are all ideas I sketched out ages ago for different international season formats (and I know there are a couple of inconsistencies in these but if since forgotten some of the logic I was using). Basically there are four different formats a Tri-Nations with true home and away, a short form (5 weeks) Four Nations, a long form Four Nations with rotating final, and a long form Four Nations with hosted final. Those aren't all encompassing descriptions as there are many elements that can be swapped between the formats but I could go on all day if I tried to go thru all the permutations.

As I've outlined elsewhere I strongly believe the five year cycle works best with the second five years just reversing the venues. Over a ten year period it allows for an even rotation of events (including World Cups) between northern and southern hemispheres without anywhere doubling up in successive years.

In the first three formats I've used a two leg format to allow true home and away. Rather than having the Aus vs NZ or intra-hemisphere matches played at the start of the tournament, they are played in the middle. This has the effect of reducing the length of time that the teams have to spend in the opposite hemisphere (given that a common complaint among players has been the length of time away from family with annual tours).

In the first three formats the WCC is included in the program as a bookend - which ever hemisphere hosts the Tri-Nations final, the other hosts the WCC. By playing the WCC immediately prior to the first game the club travelling cross hemisphere can travel with their national side meaning players who are members of both club and country don't have to make two trips - it also allows the national side an additional week to aclimatise.


FORMAT A - Tri Nations with true home and away

Year 1

1st Leg – Australia/New Zealand

Week 1 – World Club Challenge
Week 2 – Australia vs Great Britain
Week 3 – New Zealand vs Great Britain
Week 4 – Australia vs New Zealand
Week 5 – New Zealand vs Australia

2nd Leg – Britain

Week 6 – Great Britain vs Australia
Week 7 – New Zealand vs Great Britain
Week 8 – Tri Nations Final (Manchester / Leeds)

Year 2

1st Leg – Britain

Week 1 – World Club Challenge
Week 2 – Great Britain vs New Zealand
Week 3 – Great Britain vs Australia

2nd Leg – Australia/New Zealand

Week 4 – Australia vs New Zealand
Week 5 – New Zealand vs Australia
Week 6 – Australia vs Great Britain
Week 7 – New Zealand vs Great Britain
Week 8 – Tri Nations Final (Brisbane / Sydney / Melbourne)

Year 3

1st Leg – Australia/New Zealand
Week 1 – World Club Challenge
Week 2 – Australia vs Great Britain
Week 3 – New Zealand vs Great Britain
Week 4 – Australia vs New Zealand
Week 5 – New Zealand vs Australia

2nd Leg – Britain

Week 6 – Great Britain vs Australia
Week 7 – New Zealand vs Great Britain
Week 8 – Tri Nations Final (London / Cardiff)

Year 4

1st Leg – Britain

Week 1 – World Club Challenge
Week 2 – Great Britain vs Australia
Week 3 – Great Britain vs New Zealand

2nd Leg – Australia/New Zealand

Week 4 – New Zealand vs Australia
Week 5 – Australia vs New Zealand
Week 6 – New Zealand vs Great Britain
Week 7 – Australia vs Great Britain
Week 8 – Tri Nations Final (Auckland / Wellington / Christchurch)

Year 5

World Cup (Europe)

Year 10
World Cup (Australia/Pacific/SE Asia)

​

This is the same Tri-Nations we have now but scheduled to allow all three nations to play two games at home and two games away. As now the tournament always starts in one hemisphere and ends in the other but every team travels to the opposite hemisphere once. The tournament is effectively played as two legs, north and south with all three teams in the one heisphere at the same time.

As well as alternating between hemispheres, the Tri-Nations final also alternates within hemispheres. In the south between Australia and New Zealand and in the north between northern England and southern Wales / London. This means that each of Australia, New Zealand, northern England an southern Wales / London hosts the final once in every four year cycle. By further rotating the finals within hemispheres you could ensure the final was hosted once in every 12 years in Sydney, Brisbane Melbourne, Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch and once in every 8 years in Manchester, Leeds, London and Cardiff.

Of course you could play with that pattern further but the end result is that hosting the final becomes a rare and novel event despite the annual hemisphere rotation. This can be true of any of the formats I outline here although less so for the last one.




FORMAT B - Four Nations Short (5 weeks)

Year 1

1st Leg – Australia/New Zealand

Week 1 – World Club Challenge
Week 2 – Australia vs Great Britain - New Zealand vs France
Week 3 – Australia vs New Zealand

2nd Leg – Britain/France

Week 3 – France vs Great Britain
Week 4 – Great Britain vs New Zealand - France vs Australia
Week 5 – Four Nations Final (Britain)

Year 2

1st Leg – Britain/France

Week 1 – World Club Challenge
Week 2 – Great Britain vs Australia - France vs New Zealand
Week 3 – France vs Great Britain

2nd Leg – Australia/New Zealand

Week 3 – New Zealand vs Australia
Week 4 – Australia vs France - New Zealand vs Great Britain
Week 5 – Four Nations Final (Australia)

Year 3

1st Leg – Australia/New Zealand

Week 1 – World Club Challenge
Week 2 – Australia vs Great Britain - New Zealand vs France
Week 3 – Australia vs New Zealand

2nd Leg – Britain/France

Week 3 – Great Britain vs France
Week 4 – Great Britain vs New Zealand - France vs Australia
Week 5 – Four Nations Final (France)

Year 4

1st Leg – Britain/France

Week 1 – World Club Challenge
Week 2 – Great Britain vs Australia - France vs New Zealand
Week 3 – France vs Great Britain

2nd Leg – Australia/New Zealand

Week 3 – Australia vs New Zealand
Week 4 – Australia vs France - New Zealand vs Great Britain
Week 5 – Four Nations Final (New Zealand)

Year 5

World Cup (Europe)

Year 10

World Cup (Australia/Pacific/SE Asia)

​

This introduces France into a single round format. Because of the single round format, each year two teams get two home games and the other two get one home game. This alternates each year and over a two cycle period (10 years) equals out for all teams. Each year the final is hosted by one of the teams with only one home game so that in a four year period, a nation will host two games three out of every four years. Of course the downside of this short format is that there are only ever two games to allocate to each country which isn't many when there are more than two cities clamouring for matches.




FORMAT C - Four Nations Long with rotating final

Year 1

1st Leg – Australia/New Zealand

Week 1 – World Club Challenge
Week 2 – Australia vs Great Britain - New Zealand vs France
Week 3 – Australia vs France - New Zealand vs Great Britain
Week 4 – Australia vs New Zealand
Week 5 – New Zealand vs Australia

2nd Leg – Britain/France

Week 4 – Great Britain vs France
Week 5 – France vs Great Britain
Week 6 – Great Britain vs Australia - France vs New Zealand
Week 7 – Great Britain vs New Zealand - France vs Australia
Week 8 – Four Nations Final (Britain)

Year 2

1st Leg – Britain/France

Week 1 – World Club Challenge
Week 2 – Great Britain vs Australia - France vs New Zealand
Week 3 – Great Britain vs New Zealand - France vs Australia
Week 4 – Great Britain vs France
Week 5 – France vs Great Britain

2nd Leg – Australia/New Zealand

Week 4 – Australia vs New Zealand
Week 5 – New Zealand vs Australia
Week 6 – Australia vs Great Britain - New Zealand vs France
Week 7 – Australia vs France - New Zealand vs Great Britain
Week 8 – Four Nations Final (Australia)

Year 3

1st Leg – Australia/New Zealand

Week 1 – World Club Challenge
Week 2 – New Zealand vs Great Britain - Australia vs France
Week 3 – New Zealand vs France - Australia vs Great Britain
Week 4 – New Zealand vs Australia
Week 5 – Australia vs New Zealand

2nd Leg – Britain/France
Week 4 – France vs Great Britain
Week 5 – Great Britain vs France
Week 6 – France vs Australia - Great Britain vs New Zealand
Week 7 – France vs New Zealand - Great Britain vs Australia
Week 8 – Four Nations Final (France)

Year 4

1st Leg – Britain/France

Week 1 – World Club Challenge
Week 2 – France vs Australia - Great Britain vs New Zealand
Week 3 – France vs New Zealand - Great Britain vs Australia
Week 4 – France vs Great Britain
Week 5 – Great Britain vs France

2nd Leg – Australia/New Zealand

Week 4 – Australia vs New Zealand
Week 5 – New Zealand vs Australia
Week 6 – New Zealand vs Great Britain - Australia vs France
Week 7 – New Zealand vs France - Australia vs Great Britain
Week 8 – Four Nations Final (New Zealand)

Year 5

World Cup (Europe)

Year 10

World Cup (Australia/Pacific/SE Asia)

​

This is my personal favourite. Each team has three home and three away matches. Each season two of the teams get their home matches in three week blocks and one of those two nations also gets the final in the fourth week. effectively creating a marketable home series.




FORMAT D - Four Nations with hosted final

Year 1

Week 1 – Australia vs New Zealand - France vs Great Britain
Week 2 – New Zealand vs Australia - Great Britain vs France
Week 3 – Australia vs Great Britain - New Zealand vs France
Week 4 – Australia vs France - New Zealand vs Great Britain
Week 5 – Great Britain vs Australia - France vs New Zealand
Week 6 – Great Britain vs New Zealand - France vs Australia
Week 7 – World Club Championship (Britain/France)
Week 8 – Four Nations Final

Year 2

Week 1 – New Zealand vs Australia - Great Britain vs France
Week 2 – Australia vs New Zealand - France vs Great Britain
Week 3 – Great Britain vs Australia - France vs New Zealand
Week 4 – Great Britain vs New Zealand - France vs Australia
Week 5 – Australia vs France - New Zealand vs Great Britain
Week 6 – Australia vs Great Britain - New Zealand vs France
Week 7 – World Club Championship (Australia/New Zealand)
Week 8 – Four Nations Final

Year 3

Week 1 – Australia vs New Zealand - France vs Great Britain
Week 2 – New Zealand vs Australia - Great Britain vs France
Week 3 – Australia vs France - New Zealand vs Great Britain
Week 4 – Australia vs Great Britain - New Zealand vs France
Week 5 – Great Britain vs New Zealand - France vs Australia
Week 6 – Great Britain vs Australia - France vs New Zealand
Week 7 – World Club Championship (Britain/France)
Week 8 – Four Nations Final

Year 4

Week 1 – New Zealand vs Australia - Great Britain vs France
Week 2 – Australia vs New Zealand - France vs Great Britain
Week 3 – Great Britain vs New Zealand - France vs Australia
Week 4 – Great Britain vs Australia - France vs New Zealand
Week 5 – Australia vs Great Britain - New Zealand vs France
Week 6 – Australia vs France - New Zealand vs Great Britain
Week 7 – World Club Championship (Australia/New Zealand)
Week 8 – Four Nations Final

Year 5

World Cup (Europe)

Year 10

World Cup (Australia/Pacific/SE Asia)

​

This format introduces two very different ideas. The first is effectively a three leg tournament with the first two weeks being the intra-hermisphere matches, the second two weeks away games in one hemisphere and the third two weeks away games in the other. Again this allows a full home and away series. But this time the WCC is moved to whichever hemisphere the third leg is played in and set on a spare weekend between the last round robin match and the final. Why? To provide a deliberate break so that the final can be allocated based on finishing positions. Whichever team finishes highest, hosts the final ensuring that the final is never contested by two foreign teams. The break gives a full fortnight to book a venue and market the match and ship players cross hemisphere if needed. The only players that travel in the last week are those involved in the WCC.

And with that I'm going to bed, its bloody 3.30am!

Leigh.

 

[Parraletic]

Finally League official have seen the light. About time they got serious about expanding the international game!

 

[carlnz]

No offense Parra but your dillusional. Russia?? Wales?? Wales is firmly rugby Union, no doubt they won't be joining. The Catalans squad will consist of 13 foreign players this season not 7 or 8 as you suggest in your thread. 5 of those are newly imported, this is because they are desperate not to be kicked out of the comp. No doubt they will survive on the basis they have been given enough money by rupert to sign whoever they like and play with a totally non french team.

How many of the Warriors players are Australian?? The French (like Kiwis)wont care whos in their side as long as their winning. French players will get picked up by other Super league Clubs.

 

[Mal Meninga]

It's great news for League internationally but what's their player base like? They've got plenty of talent in Union but is League considered a minority sport over there?

What happened to the French league sides of 50 years ago where they challenged the Kangaroos? Why was that never ever built on...

 

[borntoride]

How many of the Warriors players are Australian?? The French (like Kiwis)wont care whos in their side as long as their winning. French players will get picked up by other Super league Clubs.

I dunno how many of the warriors are australian and i don't really care. Their are more than enough kiwi's in both NRL and SL to make a good sized national squad. To compare French players in SL to NZ player in NRL is bullsh*t. The French would probably like it if their team did win, but they don't. They might win if they went down into the NL1. Support for the French team won't get stronger unless the people get behind them, we can't force them to take rugby league on board it's their own decision.

 

[aussies1st]

Would be good to see the French involved, thats the best way to get improvement in them.

 

[carlnz]

I dunno how many of the warriors are australian and i don't really care. Their are more than enough kiwi's in both NRL and SL to make a good sized national squad. To compare French players in SL to NZ player in NRL is bullsh*t. The French would probably like it if their team did win, but they don't. They might win if they went down into the NL1. Support for the French team won't get stronger unless the people get behind them, we can't force them to take rugby league on board it's their own decision.

Shows that you know f**k all about the game dont you.....

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

France joining the Tri Nations at least made it onto a Switzerland website.

http://www.tsr.ch/tsr/index.html?siteSect=800002&sid=7246568&cKey=1163175979000



The international Federation probes France to join the Tri-Nations
10.11.2006 17:26
The international Federation of Rugby with XIII (RLIF) indicated Friday in Sydney that it had approached France to join the Tri-Nations, competition which gathers already the teams of Australia, New Zealand and Great Britain, since 2009.

The RLIF required of the French Federation to present to him an economic plan in this direction.

Contacted Friday, the FFR XII confirmed that it was interested to integrate this competition and was in contact with the RLIF.

The international Federation indicated that the duration of a possible quadrangular tournament would be reduced and that matches would be played in France. (AFP)

 

[Sanchez]

does that mean its likely?

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

Sounds like it's locked in to me.

 

[roopy]

This is a radical idea, and i expect to be howled down by the 'purists' as usual, but I would admit France, but recognise they are not yet as good as the other three and allow them to use up to 6 or so invited players to not only boost their playing strength, but also crowd appeal by putting in guys like Marcus Bai, Hasim El Masri, Andrew Johns, Stacey Jones if NZ don't want him - or basically anyone they could sign up to boost their chances.
The team should be called French Barbarians.

 

[Brutus]

This is a radical idea, and i expect to be howled down by the 'purists' as usual, but I would admit France, but recognise they are not yet as good as the other three and allow them to use up to 6 or so invited players to not only boost their playing strength, but also crowd appeal by putting in guys like Marcus Bai, Hasim El Masri, Andrew Johns, Stacey Jones if NZ don't want him - or basically anyone they could sign up to boost their chances.
The team should be called French Barbarians.

Not a bad idea at all Roopy.

 

[borntoride]

Shows that you know f**k all about the game dont you.....

I think your lack of a real response shows that you know i'm right. France is not NZ they are totally different places and have totally different numbers represented in the Big Arena. The only similarity is they both have no domestic league. Maybe in a decade France will be like New Zealand but it's hard to say. Sorry I didn't realise that the warriors where the opitamy of the whole of RL and that not knowing, or caring how many aussies they have means i know all about RL. That's sarcasm BTW i'm not sorry at all, so f**k you....

 

[Poul]

This is a radical idea, and i expect to be howled down by the 'purists' as usual, but I would admit France, but recognise they are not yet as good as the other three and allow them to use up to 6 or so invited players to not only boost their playing strength, but also crowd appeal by putting in guys like Marcus Bai, Hasim El Masri, Andrew Johns, Stacey Jones if NZ don't want him - or basically anyone they could sign up to boost their chances.
The team should be called French Barbarians.

You're right Roopy, I don't like it! I think having "invitational" players only prevents local French talent from developing. I would rather see real French players getting thrashed (and my guess is that the French public would too), than a team full of imported players.
I think having two French teams in the ESL (hopefully Toulouse will be admitted in 2009?) will go a long way to aiding the development of a competitive national team. I would although like to see more French players plying their trade in British and Australian teams.

 

[langpark]

I think it's cool that in Australia we rarely see British and French players, because it provides a real X factor when we play them, they have totally different playing styles, if their best players were out here we'd know wat to expect when playing them in internationals

 

[hgfds]

France will find the players to be competitive dont forget the grandparent residency rule

 

[Quidgybo]

France is not NZ they are totally different places and have totally different numbers represented in the Big Arena. The only similarity is they both have no domestic league. Maybe in a decade France will be like New Zealand but it's hard to say.

Good, that's all we're asking you to do - look a decade down the track and see what the result of a decade in the Tri-Nations and SL could be. How bad the results are today or in 2009 are largely irrelevant. It's what they'll be like by 2016 or 2019 that we need to working towards.

Leigh.

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

borntoride

Since when doesn't France have a domestic League?

I'm sure all those supporters of those fantom clubs must be shocked that they have wasted years going too and watching these French clubs teams which don't exist. :roll:

Maybe you should look at a few French RL sites and then come back with something different.

These one's will help you get started

www.rugbyforumxiii.com

www.goldrugby.com/

www.goldrugby.com/nations/european_nations_rugbyleague.htm

www.goldrugby.com/website/liens_rugbyXIII.htm