The Game Future NRL Stadiums part II

[Babyface O'reilly]

The drip line is badly positioned. Opening night of Allianz I got wet, as did a lot of people. I know people who were season ti8ketholders with Sydney FC who cancelled their season tickets after they got soaked at a Sydney FC home game in seats that were supposedly undercover.

The irony is that the company that designed the current Allianz Stadium? Well they designed the original SFS too

I believe the SFS was meant to have a larger roof until budget issues intervened

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Where’s the drip line at the shitty Perth stadium?

Western Australia is still stuck in the iron age.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

I believe the SFS was meant to have a larger roof until budget issues intervened

This is such a classic NSW thing to do.
start off with a very expensive plan of dubious economic benefit (knocking down an adequate stadium to build a flash one)
Cut back on the original plans because of the cost, and end up spending hundreds of millions to get only a modest improvement on the old one. And meanwhile Accor still sucks.

 

[horrie hastings]

I believe the SFS was meant to have a larger roof until budget issues intervened

Yes because the members needed a far bigger gym and exercise area and two pools.

 

[Canard]

This is such a classic NSW thing to do.
start off with a very expensive plan of dubious economic benefit (knocking down an adequate stadium to build a flash one)
Cut back on the original plans because of the cost, and end up spending hundreds of millions to get only a modest improvement on the old one. And meanwhile Accor still sucks.

You've just explained how every states government infrastructure project of the last 30 years runs.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

You've just explained how every states government infrastructure project of the last 30 years runs.

The particularly egrarious thing about the SFS was it was a decent stadium already (sure it wasn’t perfect, but there are plenty worse in the state including Accor). But the SCG trust get what they want

 

[Wb1234]

The particularly egrarious thing about the SFS was it was a decent stadium already (sure it wasn’t perfect, but there are plenty worse in the state including Accor). But the SCG trust get what they want

Really bad corporate facilities

the actual boxes were behind the posts at one end and the rest were open air boxes and a few proper ones

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Really bad corporate facilities

the actual boxes were behind the posts at one end and the rest were open air boxes and a few proper ones

Yeah I know, I’ve been in them. But is that really a reason to rebuild an entire stadium? I reckon they could’ve easily retrofitted some corporate suites in prime position, especially if they’d been prepared to sacrifice a few hundred seats.

 

[Wb1234]

Yeah I know, I’ve been in them. But is that really a reason to rebuild an entire stadium? I reckon they could’ve easily retrofitted some corporate suites in prime position, especially if they’d been prepared to sacrifice a few hundred seats.

Whether it’s bs or not I don’t know the scg trust said the stadium was going to fail fire inspections and not be granted an occupation certificate

costs to fix were horrendous

of course the trust has milked it for loads of extra for its members

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Whether it’s bs or not I don’t know the scg trust said the stadium was going to fail fire inspections and not be granted an occupation certificate

costs to fix were horrendous

of course the trust has milked it for loads of extra for its members

Yeah I remember all their justifications. Still reckon they milked it big time.
I seriously doubt $100M couldn’t have fixed all the main idenfied issues with the old stadium apart from the dripline.
But anyway it’s done now, and we went from what, 45% coverage to maybe 60%.

 

[Perth Red]

Western Australia is still stuck in the iron age.

Indeed it is, and long may it continue!

 

[Wb1234]

L

Yeah I remember all their justifications. Still reckon they milked it big time.
I seriously doubt $100M couldn’t have fixed all the main idenfied issues with the old stadium apart from the dripline.
But anyway it’s done now, and we went from what, 45% coverage to maybe 60%.

yeh you’re not wrong
is still a pretty stadium and with south’s to move there soon it’s going to get decent patronage

 

[Timbo]

I have a relative who was one of the last venue managers of the old SFS. He said it was a death trap in terms of emergency access and egress, and they had been told by the emergency services that after the existing safety certificate it would not be extended.

Now he retired before the decision was made to knock it down and rebuild it, so I have no idea how much it would have cost to fix that, but I imagine it couldn't have been cheap. In addition to re-locating the corporate seats to the sidelines, probably would have been fairly expensive.

My question about the SFS remains why did it have to be a 45,000 seat stadium. A 30,000 seat club stadium would have been perfect for the Roosters, Rabbitohs, Waratahs and Sydney FC. It also would have been fine for most Socceroos games and non-Bledisloe or Lions Wallabies tests. Concerts would have the ability to use the SCG and Accor if they needed the larger capacity, but there are a number of 30,000 seat stadiums that are designed with a modular end area for a stage that allow them to hold 40-50,000 for concerts.

Once they decided they weren't building a 65,000 seat stadium at Moore Park and sell off Homebush and demolish it like Baird wanted to do, I don't know why the SFS wasn't designed as something more boutique, but with the flexibility to hold more for concerts.

 

[Perth Red]

I have a relative who was one of the last venue managers of the old SFS. He said it was a death trap in terms of emergency access and egress, and they had been told by the emergency services that after the existing safety certificate it would not be extended.

Now he retired before the decision was made to knock it down and rebuild it, so I have no idea how much it would have cost to fix that, but I imagine it couldn't have been cheap. In addition to re-locating the corporate seats to the sidelines, probably would have been fairly expensive.

My question about the SFS remains why did it have to be a 45,000 seat stadium. A 30,000 seat club stadium would have been perfect for the Roosters, Rabbitohs, Waratahs and Sydney FC. It also would have been fine for most Socceroos games and non-Bledisloe or Lions Wallabies tests. Concerts would have the ability to use the SCG and Accor if they needed the larger capacity, but there are a number of 30,000 seat stadiums that are designed with a modular end area for a stage that allow them to hold 40-50,000 for concerts.

Once they decided they weren't building a 65,000 seat stadium at Moore Park and sell off Homebush and demolish it like Baird wanted to do, I don't know why the SFS wasn't designed as something more boutique, but with the flexibility to hold more for concerts.

yeh either they should have made it 70k and pulled down accor or made it 30k and spent money on accor. Still its good Sydney has at least got two decent stadiums now. Hopefully one day the Feds will come to the party and spend on Accor and make it the 'national' rectangular stadium.

 

[Wb1234]

I have a relative who was one of the last venue managers of the old SFS. He said it was a death trap in terms of emergency access and egress, and they had been told by the emergency services that after the existing safety certificate it would not be extended.

Now he retired before the decision was made to knock it down and rebuild it, so I have no idea how much it would have cost to fix that, but I imagine it couldn't have been cheap. In addition to re-locating the corporate seats to the sidelines, probably would have been fairly expensive.

My question about the SFS remains why did it have to be a 45,000 seat stadium. A 30,000 seat club stadium would have been perfect for the Roosters, Rabbitohs, Waratahs and Sydney FC. It also would have been fine for most Socceroos games and non-Bledisloe or Lions Wallabies tests. Concerts would have the ability to use the SCG and Accor if they needed the larger capacity, but there are a number of 30,000 seat stadiums that are designed with a modular end area for a stage that allow them to hold 40-50,000 for concerts.

Once they decided they weren't building a 65,000 seat stadium at Moore Park and sell off Homebush and demolish it like Baird wanted to do, I don't know why the SFS wasn't designed as something more boutique, but with the flexibility to hold more for concerts.

Scg trust wouldn’t have allowed the loss in capacity

they were previously competitors with accor

it’s the state govts fault for not bringing all stadiums under one body sooner

 

[Valheru]

The particularly egrarious thing about the SFS was it was a decent stadium already (sure it wasn’t perfect, but there are plenty worse in the state including Accor). But the SCG trust get what they want

Accor isn't worse then the old SFS as far as facilities go, it is just the wrong shape for rectangle field sports.

The old SFS was 30 years old when it got knocked down and had not been touched the longest of any major stadium in the country. Below is an excerpt from another post I made and is a list of dates of the last major works done on the marquee stadiums in the country.

Suncorp - 2003
Townsville - 2020
Robina - 2008
Gabba - 2005
Newcastle - 2010
SCG - 2013
Accor - 2003
Commbank - 2019
AAMI - 2010
MCG - 2005
Marvel - 2000 (ongoing re-development now)
Geelong - 2017 (ongoing re-development now)
Adelaide Oval - 2014
Optus - 2018
Bellrieve - 2015

SFS hadn't been touched since 1988

Looking beyond the size of the stadium, it isn't a small improvement, it is a drastic improvement with far better facilities providing a superior game day experience. It also gets used at minimum 30 times by its 3 core tenants per year and the law of averages say that is higher when finals are taken in to account. Then you add internationals, womens fixtures and concerts etc.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Accor isn't worse then the old SFS as far as facilities go, it is just the wrong shape for rectangle field sports.

The old SFS was 30 years old when it got knocked down and had not been touched the longest of any major stadium in the country. Below is an excerpt from another post I made and is a list of dates of the last major works done on the marquee stadiums in the country.

Suncorp - 2003
Townsville - 2020
Robina - 2008
Gabba - 2005
Newcastle - 2010
SCG - 2013
Accor - 2003
Commbank - 2019
AAMI - 2010
MCG - 2005
Marvel - 2000 (ongoing re-development now)
Geelong - 2017 (ongoing re-development now)
Adelaide Oval - 2014
Optus - 2018
Bellrieve - 2015

SFS hadn't been touched since 1988

Looking beyond the size of the stadium, it isn't a small improvement, it is a drastic improvement with far better facilities providing a superior game day experience. It also gets used at minimum 30 times by its 3 core tenants per year and the law of averages say that is higher when finals are taken in to account. Then you add internationals, womens fixtures and concerts etc.

All fair points. But I think the clincher is, neglected as it was in terms of upgrades, the old SFS got the single most important thing right, the view from the stands for the majority of spectators. Accor doesn’t, and no amount of window dressing will ever fix that- at best they might manage to modify it to have half decent lower tiers.
The bloke who designed Suncorp talked about that in an article a while back- with stadiums you have to get those fundamentals right, and anything else you can fix.
I guess what I’m getting at is properly fixing or replacing Accor should always have been the first priority, but the bullshit politics of the time got in the ways of that.

 

[Steel Saints]

Stadiums like Allianz are used not just for sport. A few months ago, a Robbie Williams concert attracted 38,000.

A few weeks ago, the NSW gov. announced that the concert cap will be lifted from four to 20 events per year. NSW gov reckon that it will add $120 million to the state’s economy annually.

So our mindset needs to change regarding stadiums. They are concert venues too.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Stadiums like Allianz are used not just for sport. A few months ago, a Robbie Williams concert attracted 38,000.

A few weeks ago, the NSW gov. announced that the concert cap will be lifted from four to 20 events per year. NSW gov reckon that it will add $120 million to the state’s economy annually.

So our mindset needs to change regarding stadiums. They are concert venues too.

100%, and any smart stadium design includes the ability to easily erect staging etc with the necessary access, power supplies etc etc.

 

[Valheru]

All fair points. But I think the clincher is, neglected as it was in terms of upgrades, the old SFS got the single most important thing right, the view from the stands for the majority of spectators. Accor doesn’t, and no amount of window dressing will ever fix that- at best they might manage to modify it to have half decent lower tiers.
The bloke who designed Suncorp talked about that in an article a while back- with stadiums you have to get those fundamentals right, and anything else you can fix.
I guess what I’m getting at is properly fixing or replacing Accor should always have been the first priority, but the bullshit politics of the time got in the ways of that.

I do get where you're coming from

I guess we can argue what should have been done first but for me a world class venue in (or close to) the city is an absolute priority and yields far reaching economic benefit for the region. The addition of light rail to the venue meaning you can have a drink or dinner anywhere in the CBD really and easily get to the venue just adds to that.

Having said that, I do understand the desire for Accor to get some love and I'm all on board re-building it as a 70-90k rectangle venue, it should be our Wembly. However, how many events realistically will it hold in a year that the SFS (or Commbank) is too small for and what will its general use be? Regarding the former there is one (on the odd occasion 2) origin matches a year and the NRL GF. Outside of that you might get the odd concert from someone huge like Taylor Swift, some marquee one off like a socceroos Asian cup final or an NRL prelim if two western Sydney clubs are involved. The bulldogs seem to be the only prospective permanent tenant in the future with the Souths move to SFS being seemingly inevitable. So yeah I can see how the government would find the SFS a more viable option for ROI.