The Game Future NRL Stadiums part II

[herbert henry1908]

If a stadium was to be built on top of central, it would have to be the premiere stadium of the country.

It would need an 80'000 seat capacity and ANZ would have to go.

It is probably the best outcome and most ideal situation for literally everyone. That's why it won't happen.

Agree, I’d want to see it as the major stadium. Not just about sports, this would be a hell of a venue to have concerts at too.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

You need to make such things an event. That is where RL fails

We do one-off events well:

Origin
All Stars
Magic Weekend (hopefully)
Grand Final
Pacific Test (growing)
NRL 9's

We just need to transfer some of this marketing hype accross into regular NRL matches. The problem is though, that clubs, not the NRL are responsible for the game-day experience and marketing. Maybe it would be beneficial for the NRL to partner with the clubs in this area to raise the match-day experience at all NRL games.

 

[Captain Apollo]

What is the SCG Trust if not a PPP? It's a public agency operated by private citizens with limited bureaucratic background and a primary function to benefit it's members (private stakeholders).

The SCG trust is actually a public body. It is constituted under the Sydney Cricket and Sports Ground Trust Act 1978. The actual trustees of which there are 15, 13 of them are appointed by the Government of the day (via the Governor) whilst the other two are elected by the members. The Trusts' primary purpose is set out in the legislation which states "The Trust is charged with the care, control and management of the scheduled lands."

As such the SCG Trust is not a PPP at all by any accepted definition. In fact the NSW Parliament could legislate to repeal the Act and place the ground under someone else's care, or for that matter the Government could have the Governor remove any of the trustees from office (including those elected by the membership).

Mate, I'm no fan of the SCG Trust at all so don't think what I've posted above is me defending them. It isn't. I'm merely rebutting your assertion that they are a PPP. They aren't. The problem is amongst those who are the current trustees and how the trust as an entity functions. This is the list of current trustees -

• Mr Tony Shepher (Chair - GWS);
• Mr Rod McGeogh (Deputy Chair);
• Mr John Hartigan (ex-News Ltd);
• Mr Alan Jones;
• Mr Stuart MacGill;
• Mr Nihal Gupta (former Chairman of SBS, Former Director of the Sydney Sixers);
• Ms Katie Page (Managing Director, Harvey Norman);
• Mr Maurice Newman (former Chair ABC, former Chairman of Deutsche Bank, Former Chairman Sydney Sixers);
• Hon Barry O'Farrell (Former Premier);
• Mr Michael Crismale (Board Member, Sydney FC);
• Ms Kerrie Mather (former Managing Director and CEO of Sydney Airport);
• Mr Peter Ivany (Chairman of the Sydney Swans Foundation); and
• Ms Stephanie Brantz (commentator/presenter/reporter for Fox Sports, formerly doingf same for Channel 9). (all of these ones are appointed by the Government)
• Mr Phil Waugh (ex-rugby Union, elected by trust members); and
• Mr Dave Gilbert (ex-cricketer, elected by trust members).

Many of the above people were more likely appointed because of close ties to the Liberal Party than for their acumen at sports venue management. I think the trust should be abolished myself and its functions given to Venues NSW.

 

[Saint Doc]

The SCG trust is actually a public body. It is constituted under the Sydney Cricket and Sports Ground Trust Act 1978. The actual trustees of which there are 15, 13 of them are appointed by the Government of the day (via the Governor) whilst the other two are elected by the members. The Trusts' primary purpose is set out in the legislation which states "The Trust is charged with the care, control and management of the scheduled lands."

As such the SCG Trust is not a PPP at all by any accepted definition. In fact the NSW Parliament could legislate to repeal the Act and place the ground under someone else's care, or for that matter the Government could have the Governor remove any of the trustees from office (including those elected by the membership).

Mate, I'm no fan of the SCG Trust at all so don't think what I've posted above is me defending them. It isn't. I'm merely rebutting your assertion that they are a PPP. They aren't. The problem is amongst those who are the current trustees and how the trust as an entity functions. This is the list of current trustees -

• Mr Tony Shepher (Chair - Swans);
• Mr Rod McGeogh (Deputy Chair);
• Mr John Hartigan (ex-News Ltd);
• Mr Alan Jones;
• Mr Stuart MacGill;
• Mr Nihal Gupta (former Chairman of SBS, Former Director of the Sydney Sixers);
• Ms Katie Page (Managing Director, Harvey Norman);
• Mr Maurice Newman (former Chair ABC, former Chairman of Deutsche Bank, Former Chairman Sydney Sixers);
• Hon Barry O'Farrell (Former Premier);
• Mr Michael Crismale (Board Member, Sydney FC);
• Ms Kerrie Mather (former Managing Director and CEO of Sydney Airport);
• Mr Peter Ivany (Chairman of the Sydney Swans Foundation); and
• Ms Stephanie Brantz (commentator/presenter/reporter for Fox Sports, formerly doingf same for Channel 9). (all of these ones are appointed by the Government)
• Mr Phil Waugh (ex-rugby Union, elected by trust members); and
• Mr Dave Gilbert (ex-cricketer, elected by trust members).

Many of the above people were more likely appointed because of close ties to the Liberal Party than for their acumen at sports venue management. I think the trust should be abolished myself and its functions given to Venues NSW.

Great to see appropriate rugby league representation on that board........

 

[El Diablo]

Mr Tony Shepher (Chair - Swans);

GWS

 

[dangerousdave]

Metro south west is going to Waterloo.

I suspect that will become the major interchange between the 2 metro lines.

It's doubtful that the Eastern portion of metro west will follow a more northern route because that will essentially duplicate the light rail.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

How would the NRL be able to pay it off? The NRL is set up to be a not for profit body. As such doing what you suggest could jeopardise that status, which would mean they wind up with a hole heap more to pay in tax. The profits the game generates get plowed back into the game, be it at NRL level or lower. Hence to repay the loan, it would divert revenue going to certain areas of the game (e.g. junior football).

NFP organisations are still able to invest in assets. Infact most would collapse if they didnt, it the most secure source of revenue they can hope for...

The ARLC can invest in a stadium because the rent would be a great cash source, not just from the East Sydney clubs but also Union and Soccer.

What do you that that $80mil investment fund was for if not for investing?

 

[herbert henry1908]

I suspect that will become the major interchange between the 2 metro lines.

It's doubtful that the Eastern portion of metro west will follow a more northern route because that will essentially duplicate the light rail.

I’m not so sure. One of the places they’ve committed to building a station is rozelle. To get to Waterloo it’d have to go south east before heading into the city.

My guess is the metro west will interchange at Martin Place.

The light rail needs duplicating, as you pointed out it faces high use from day one. But if I had to guess we won’t see any metro east for quite a while.

 

[dangerousdave]

The SCG trust is actually a public body. It is constituted under the Sydney Cricket and Sports Ground Trust Act 1978. The actual trustees of which there are 15, 13 of them are appointed by the Government of the day (via the Governor) whilst the other two are elected by the members. The Trusts' primary purpose is set out in the legislation which states "The Trust is charged with the care, control and management of the scheduled lands."

As such the SCG Trust is not a PPP at all by any accepted definition. In fact the NSW Parliament could legislate to repeal the Act and place the ground under someone else's care, or for that matter the Government could have the Governor remove any of the trustees from office (including those elected by the membership).

Mate, I'm no fan of the SCG Trust at all so don't think what I've posted above is me defending them. It isn't. I'm merely rebutting your assertion that they are a PPP. They aren't. The problem is amongst those who are the current trustees and how the trust as an entity functions. This is the list of current trustees -

• Mr Tony Shepher (Chair - Swans);
• Mr Rod McGeogh (Deputy Chair);
• Mr John Hartigan (ex-News Ltd);
• Mr Alan Jones;
• Mr Stuart MacGill;
• Mr Nihal Gupta (former Chairman of SBS, Former Director of the Sydney Sixers);
• Ms Katie Page (Managing Director, Harvey Norman);
• Mr Maurice Newman (former Chair ABC, former Chairman of Deutsche Bank, Former Chairman Sydney Sixers);
• Hon Barry O'Farrell (Former Premier);
• Mr Michael Crismale (Board Member, Sydney FC);
• Ms Kerrie Mather (former Managing Director and CEO of Sydney Airport);
• Mr Peter Ivany (Chairman of the Sydney Swans Foundation); and
• Ms Stephanie Brantz (commentator/presenter/reporter for Fox Sports, formerly doingf same for Channel 9). (all of these ones are appointed by the Government)
• Mr Phil Waugh (ex-rugby Union, elected by trust members); and
• Mr Dave Gilbert (ex-cricketer, elected by trust members).

Many of the above people were more likely appointed because of close ties to the Liberal Party than for their acumen at sports venue management. I think the trust should be abolished myself and its functions given to Venues NSW.

That's fair.
Good post and good breakdown.

PPP is clearly not the term I was looking for. The amount of power they wield and their refusal to act in the public interest is criminal.

I'm genuinely dumbfounded that in a stadia thread, in a rugby league forum much less, people are willing to accept that a preordained plan to funnel money to the Trust must be followed to a T without any investigation of alternatives.

 

[herbert henry1908]

See the map for the metro west, Waterloo area isn’t included in the study area.

 

[Perth Red]

We do one-off events well:

Origin
All Stars
Magic Weekend (hopefully)
Grand Final
Pacific Test (growing)
NRL 9's

We just need to transfer some of this marketing hype accross into regular NRL matches. The problem is though, that clubs, not the NRL are responsible for the game-day experience and marketing. Maybe it would be beneficial for the NRL to partner with the clubs in this area to raise the match-day experience at all NRL games.

They missed the chance with the grant increase, some of it should have been reliant on improving kpi’s like game day experience. It was the perfect chance for carrot and stick and the nrl failed miserably again to show leadership.

 

[Timmah]

With the access that a stadium above central would have, would it matter?

Most people would only go to a major event a few times a year, for people in the West it would only mean an extra 30mins (15 each way) travel on direct trains.

I don't know how anyone (especially a Panthers fan) could possibly think making it more difficult for the major population centre of Sydney to travel further would be a good way to attract more fans.

 

[dangerousdave]

I’m not so sure. One of the places they’ve committed to building a station is rozelle. To get to Waterloo it’d have to go south east before heading into the city.

My guess is the metro west will interchange at Martin Place.

The light rail needs duplicating, as you pointed out it faces high use from day one. But if I had to guess we won’t see any metro east for quite a while.

It would be sensible.

But Sydney uni still has its hat in the ring in trying to drag the line South to serve itself and RPA. Sydney Uni's student pop is set to grow from about 25,000 on campus students to 75,000. Honestly, I wish the city was already served by multiple metro lines serving all these areas. We are always playing catch up it seems.

With Sydney's sandstone bedrock and geographic barriers to growth and connectivity, hopefully both state parties have their eyes on the progress and outcomes of Mr. Musk's boring projects in Chicago and LA... unlikely though. This is NSW after all.

 

[Last Week]

Good theory but leaving Western Sydney with its biggest stadium as a 30k venue... best idea?

I'd say so. I don't see why Western Sydney would need a stadium any bigger if the one at Central existed.

Every single event event at ANZ currently (barring regular club games) could be moved there.

 

[herbert henry1908]

It would be sensible.

But Sydney uni still has its hat in the ring in trying to drag the line South to serve itself and RPA. Sydney Uni's student pop is set to grow from about 25,000 on campus students to 75,000. Honestly, I wish the city was already served by multiple metro lines serving all these areas. We are always playing catch up it seems.

With Sydney's sandstone bedrock and geographic barriers to growth and connectivity, hopefully both state parties have their eyes on the progress and outcomes of Mr. Musk's boring projects in Chicago and LA... unlikely though. This is NSW after all.

At least we’re seeing progress on trains now, I’d just be very surprised if they were that close to the city at rozelle to then push the line south. People at rozelle want to get into the city, they don’t want to go south towards Waterloo. Ditto the whole line really, they’re selling it as a way to connect the two CBD’s.

I think they were smart not giving a stop to Sydney uni on the SW line, Waterloo was more important. Most uni students are young, they can do the walk to the Redfern.

 

[herbert henry1908]

I don't know how anyone (especially a Panthers fan) could possibly think making it more difficult for the major population centre of Sydney to travel further would be a good way to attract more fans.

Because major events are about the whole experience, and the CBD would be a vastly better experience. You could make a whole night out of it, rather than just a drive & go home.

This would inconvenience most people only a few times a year, I honestly think the trade off would be worth it. It would also bring more economic benefits than a stadium at Olympic Park.

I should say though this would be contingent on the stadium being right next to central, any further and it is becoming too much of an inconvenience on people from the west.

An express train from Penrith to Central is 50 mins. Non express is 1 hour 3mins.

An express train from Penrith to Olympic Park, with the interchange is 51 mins. Non express is 57 mins.

There’s hardly any difference.

 

[Captain Apollo]

GWS

Oops. Fixed now. Thanks for the correction

 

[Captain Apollo]

NFP organisations are still able to invest in assets. Infact most would collapse if they didnt, it the most secure source of revenue they can hope for...

The ARLC can invest in a stadium because the rent would be a great cash source, not just from the East Sydney clubs but also Union and Soccer.

What do you that that $80mil investment fund was for if not for investing?

On that part I wasn't aware of, so thank you for the clarification.

Thing is it would not address the strain doing what you propose would put on the NRL's revenue though as it would not be a 1-2 year thing, it would more than likely take decades, and if interest rates should rise during the term of the lone then.... yikes

 

[OldPanther]

I don't know how anyone (especially a Panthers fan) could possibly think making it more difficult for the major population centre of Sydney to travel further would be a good way to attract more fans.

I don't know a stadoum at central would be brilliant. Much easier for everyone to get to from various parts of the city.

 

[Perth Red]

I don't know a stadoum at central would be brilliant. Much easier for everyone to get to from various parts of the city.

Most cities are now aware that centralised, or very easy to access, stadiums are a big plus for sports tourism. The closer you can get to the city and where sports tourists will be staying the better. Ease of access is def a factor in deciding to travel to a city for an event.