The Game Future NRL Stadiums part II

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

Jesus Christ. We're talking around in circles here.

https://architectureau.com/articles...m-over-rail-yards-at-sydneys-central-station/

In general, reclamation of airspace over railyards is pretty standard practice in major cities.

That would be amazing, but the Trust would never allow it and the scare campaign would be too easy...

Any idea on the cost? Labor said they would willingly fund it as a loan. Maybe the NRL could “buy” it and pay it off with major events to the State like the AFL has with Docklands

 

[beave]

Light rail is already projected to be running at 110% of capacity on Thursday and Friday evenings so wont provide greatly improved access for many events.

Sydney's car dependency is part of the problem when it comes to the city's lacklustre culture of event attendance.
That it is common to drive to major events in the first place is an embarrassment for a major global city.
Something you would never hear - "Alright guys. Hop in the car. We're off to the Arsenal/Tottenham/Chelsea/West Ham/Fulham/Palace/Charlton/Milwall/QPR game" - or to any theatre, gallery or gig for that matter.

Granted, the PT infrastructure is a shambles but we really do need to be looking at integrated infrastructure which allows Sydney to move its population and thus increase vibrancy and event attendance. Metro West to Olympic Park will increase event attendance there drastically.

The idea of investing $780 million on a brand new stadium that is not on heavy rail or an MRT system is dumb-f**kery of the highest order.

i understand what you are getting at BUT most NFL teams have extensive parking lots at their stadiums and encourage fans to tailgate in these lots before games. I wouldn’t be completely shitting on stadiums that require fans drive to events.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

i understand what you are getting at BUT most NFL teams have extensive parking lots at their stadiums and encourage fans to tailgate in these lots before games. I wouldn’t be completely shitting on stadiums that require fans drive to events.

NSW just doesnt have the culture for it and the security would be too dificult.

Pre-match events at local bars would be killer, but in a car park we would find anway to ruin it very quickly

 

[beave]

NSW just doesnt have the culture for it and the security would be too dificult.

Pre-match events at local bars would be killer, but in a car park we would find anway to ruin it very quickly

without a doubt. Oz is very nana state like but to be honest, the general populace are our own worst enemy. Add piss and football fans in a carpark and we all know the outcome.....

 

[TheRam]

Light rail is already projected to be running at 110% of capacity on Thursday and Friday evenings so wont provide greatly improved access for many events.

Sydney's car dependency is part of the problem when it comes to the city's lacklustre culture of event attendance.
That it is common to drive to major events in the first place is an embarrassment for a major global city.
Something you would never hear - "Alright guys. Hop in the car. We're off to the Arsenal/Tottenham/Chelsea/West Ham/Fulham/Palace/Charlton/Milwall/QPR game" - or to any theatre, gallery or gig for that matter.

Granted, the PT infrastructure is a shambles but we really do need to be looking at integrated infrastructure which allows Sydney to move its population and thus increase vibrancy and event attendance. Metro West to Olympic Park will increase event attendance there drastically.

The idea of investing $780 million on a brand new stadium that is not on heavy rail or an MRT system is dumb-f**kery of the highest order.

This in particular is is so glaringly obvious that only Pollies can miss it completely.

 

[Captain Apollo]

Jesus Christ. We're talking around in circles here.

https://architectureau.com/articles...m-over-rail-yards-at-sydneys-central-station/

In general, reclamation of airspace over railyards is pretty standard practice in major cities.

Thank you, I don't recall having seen that article.

Firstly, it proposes building it as a public-private partnership. Those have been proven to be the worst things in terms of value for money to the public have they have been done. If you want examples, let me know and I'll link you to the various NSW Auditor-General reports which have concluded that time after time. If you want a recent example, look at the new Northern Beaches Hospital. Labor if they win the election won't touch anymore PPP proposals. I mean look at the buildings in front of the stadium which I'll bet are blocks of units, which the public will just go ape for (and not in a good way).

Secondly, knowing what is around the area, you would have massive disruption to the roads around the area during construction of said stadium which, alas, are key roads into and out of the CBD let alone to the eastern suburbs. Further, it could disrupt the light rail which runs down Devonshire Street, which the proposal wants the stadium built over. The article does not indicate how it would cope with that, which is one of the key questions.

 

[Captain Apollo]

That would be amazing, but the Trust would never allow it and the scare campaign would be too easy...

Any idea on the cost? Labor said they would willingly fund it as a loan. Maybe the NRL could “buy” it and pay it off with major events to the State like the AFL has with Docklands

How would the NRL be able to pay it off? The NRL is set up to be a not for profit body. As such doing what you suggest could jeopardise that status, which would mean they wind up with a hole heap more to pay in tax. The profits the game generates get plowed back into the game, be it at NRL level or lower. Hence to repay the loan, it would divert revenue going to certain areas of the game (e.g. junior football).

 

[franklin2323]

NSW just doesnt have the culture for it and the security would be too dificult.

Pre-match events at local bars would be killer, but in a car park we would find anway to ruin it very quickly

You need to make such things an event. That is where RL fails

 

[herbert henry1908]

A stadium at central? Really? How high in the air are you going to put this stadium? Central Station is mostly above ground especially the area where the inter-city trains terminate. I doubt it would be cheap, and you would quite possibly disrupt the entire Sydney trains network as all rail lines intersect at Central Station. I go through there every working day and there is no where to put a construction zone for such a project on the available land around the station.

Unless you can show how this would be done easily and cost effectively, I think it is a pie in the sky idea that it will ever be considered let alone get the go ahead.

It wouldn’t be cheap, but there are rudimentary plans to build above the trains lines going out of central. Been a proposal around for a few years. (Not a stadium, but other buildings)

 

[herbert henry1908]

Here’s an article that references the idea

https://www.domain.com.au/news/stra...ok-build-train-lines-melbourne-sydney-765124/

 

[herbert henry1908]

Here’s another article from 2013 specifically talking about building over the central rail lines

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/n...t/news-story/66109a85dd8650f581adf01ec0c7106f

 

[herbert henry1908]

Light rail is already projected to be running at 110% of capacity on Thursday and Friday evenings so wont provide greatly improved access for many events.

Sydney's car dependency is part of the problem when it comes to the city's lacklustre culture of event attendance.
That it is common to drive to major events in the first place is an embarrassment for a major global city.
Something you would never hear - "Alright guys. Hop in the car. We're off to the Arsenal/Tottenham/Chelsea/West Ham/Fulham/Palace/Charlton/Milwall/QPR game" - or to any theatre, gallery or gig for that matter.

Granted, the PT infrastructure is a shambles but we really do need to be looking at integrated infrastructure which allows Sydney to move its population and thus increase vibrancy and event attendance. Metro West to Olympic Park will increase event attendance there drastically.

The idea of investing $780 million on a brand new stadium that is not on heavy rail or an MRT system is dumb-f**kery of the highest order.

Peak travel times leaving the city is 5pm-6.30pm. There should be capacity on the light rail for when the stadium is being used for football. I also recall someone saying there’s scope for them to increase the trains when there’s events on.

I certainly agree that it would be much better if it were closer to the rail lines, though. Hopefully the East gets a metro line soon.

 

[herbert henry1908]

You'd also have to wipe out a large amount of green space which is already quite rare. Cost + massive public backlash means that this is about as likely as a stadium on the moon.

It's also only 1.9 km from Central to the SFS. If that's too far for you than I really don't know what can be done to help.

How so?

We’re talking building above the rail lines, not on existing green space.

 

[dangerousdave]

i understand what you are getting at BUT most NFL teams have extensive parking lots at their stadiums and encourage fans to tailgate in these lots before games. I wouldn’t be completely shitting on stadiums that require fans drive to events.

That's true.
But let's say there are 2 models for both strategic infrastructure planning and event attendance and that the two are interrelated.

You can go full car dependent with oodles of room and road infrastructure that can cope with 25,000 cars coming and going in a short period of time, or you can go for inner urban and well connected.

Under model #1, we should look at a 70k stadium with 30k club mode at Prospect for all Sydney clubs. Under model #2, an inner city stadium of 30k-40k should be as connected to as many people in the city by public transport in addition to a refurbished Homebush which will eventually be served by the Metro West MRT. For all the discussion of the 1.9km walk from Central to SFS, this simply isn't good enough. Stadia should be with in a walkable radius of 800m of heavy rail or MRT systems. I'm happy to walk the 1.9km but that's certainly not the case for all. And remember, it's up a hill.
A new Moore Park stadium does not fit either model. It's a half-arsed hybrid. I can't imagine people standing around on the muddy grass of Moore park with barbies and eskies. Nor do the scarf clad masses, rise from a station on escalators directly into the atrium of a world class stadium ready for a world class event in a world class city.

It's also important to note that most NFL markets are much smaller than Sydney and don't percieve themselves to be connected global cities. While I'm partial to a good tail-gate, I don't believe Sydney has a sustainable future under an increasingly car dependent model. It comes down to how we want Sydney to function in the future as well as vibrancy and event attendance. Do we want a city that is closer to London/Berlin or Atlanta/LA?

 

[dangerousdave]

Peak travel times leaving the city is 5pm-6.30pm. There should be capacity on the light rail for when the stadium is being used for football. I also recall someone saying there’s scope for them to increase the trains when there’s events on.

I certainly agree that it would be much better if it were closer to the rail lines, though. Hopefully the East gets a metro line soon.

This could be the game changer for Moore Park.
Some of the Metro West proposals run from Westmesd to Maroubra. I suspect, however that a route there will dip south through Waterloo and Roseberry at developer behest.

 

[dangerousdave]

Thank you, I don't recall having seen that article.

Firstly, it proposes building it as a public-private partnership. Those have been proven to be the worst things in terms of value for money to the public have they have been done. If you want examples, let me know and I'll link you to the various NSW Auditor-General reports which have concluded that time after time. If you want a recent example, look at the new Northern Beaches Hospital. Labor if they win the election won't touch anymore PPP proposals. I mean look at the buildings in front of the stadium which I'll bet are blocks of units, which the public will just go ape for (and not in a good way).

Secondly, knowing what is around the area, you would have massive disruption to the roads around the area during construction of said stadium which, alas, are key roads into and out of the CBD let alone to the eastern suburbs. Further, it could disrupt the light rail which runs down Devonshire Street, which the proposal wants the stadium built over. The article does not indicate how it would cope with that, which is one of the key questions.

What is the SCG Trust if not a PPP? It's a public agency operated by private citizens with limited bureaucratic background and a primary function to benefit it's members (private stakeholders).

 

[Last Week]

If a stadium was to be built on top of central, it would have to be the premiere stadium of the country.

It would need an 80'000 seat capacity and ANZ would have to go.

It is probably the best outcome and most ideal situation for literally everyone. That's why it won't happen.

 

[Timmah]

If a stadium was to be built on top of central, it would have to be the premiere stadium of the country.

It would need an 80'000 seat capacity and ANZ would have to go.

It is probably the best outcome and most ideal situation for literally everyone. That's why it won't happen.

Good theory but leaving Western Sydney with its biggest stadium as a 30k venue... best idea?

 

[herbert henry1908]

This could be the game changer for Moore Park.
Some of the Metro West proposals run from Westmesd to Maroubra. I suspect, however that a route there will dip south through Waterloo and Roseberry at developer behest.

Metro south west is going to Waterloo.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Good theory but leaving Western Sydney with its biggest stadium as a 30k venue... best idea?

With the access that a stadium above central would have, would it matter?

Most people would only go to a major event a few times a year, for people in the West it would only mean an extra 30mins (15 each way) travel on direct trains.