The Game Future NRL Stadiums part II

[Timmah]

You've got to realise councils are not free to charge ratepayers whatever they like, their income is pretty much pegged by the state government. They are also charged with building and maintaining local roads, whereas the users of same are taxed by other levels of Government. What it amounts to is that local sporting grounds, especially the high end ones we are talking about here, rely largely on whatever grants they can get from state and federal governments, usually as part of pork barrelling at election time. I can tell you, this does not buy a brand spanking new stadium every 30 years. Not even close. Penrith last got a few bob spent on it as a Howard election bribe around the mid '00s.

Of course if the constituents of these local government bodies weren't being repeatedly put upon to pay for the home grounds of wealthy football clubs outside their area, clubs that routinely buy premierships, they might be in a better position to chip in for their own.

I'm not suggesting that state governments shouldn't chip in and help smaller venues, but to abandon the larger venues entirely and not commit to say, even a minor upgrade of ANZ Stadium for example, is foolish.

ANZ currently hosts no oval codes anymore, but is still not properly configured for the three rectangle codes it does. To think the government don't even want to do the minimum to get that sorted is pathetic.

 

[Delboy]

A mid-life upgrade, like train carriages get at the same age. Parramatta could have had likewise, but that horse has well and truly bolted now.

Is that you Peter Fitzsimons, didn't think you would post on a league forum. Probably I've in the inner city too.

 

[Saxon]

It would be classic NSW Labor to f**k up that much good for the state to be able to say that they’re doing the opposite of what the coalition did.

And it would be classic NSW Liberal to shortcut the planning process and then say "Oh well, it's done now".

 

[TheEroticGamer]

But the 5 year, 10 year ,15 year Gus plan, was supposed to do just that.

I'd say the five year plan joke is dead but that would insinuate it was alive in the first place.

 

[El Diablo]

this is the kind of idiot who is behind Labor campaigns


dumbest analogy ever

 

[herbert henry1908]

And it would be classic NSW Liberal to shortcut the planning process and then say "Oh well, it's done now".

It’s not like they’re replacing a 45k stadium with an 80k seat stadium, that would’ve required an exhaustive planning process.

The main objection is the money being spent, not what’s being put there.

 

[beave]

this is the kind of idiot who is behind Labor campaigns


dumbest analogy ever

i responded yesterday when I read it, absolute f**king genius.

 

[taipan]

this is the kind of idiot who is behind Labor campaigns


dumbest analogy ever

Is Daley saying "I'm Spartacus?"
Bruce Hawker is not that much younger than the Coliseum ,when it comes to ideas and Medicare scare campaigns(which were effective)

 

[herbert henry1908]

 

[Canard]

Looks better every time a photo is released

 

[El Diablo]

https://www.nrl.com/news/2019/02/25...-danger-of-political-wrangling-over-stadiums/

Kogarah, Brookvale woes highlight danger of political wrangling


Brad Walter NRL.com Senior Reporter
Mon 25 Feb 2019, 06:58 PM


Manly officials no longer have to walk across Lottoland stadium before matches to clear the field of dog faeces and hazardous objects left by members of the public, but the playing surface is still causing concern.

Netstrata Jubilee Stadium, which along with Leichhardt Oval is the only other council-managed ground used for NRL matches, doesn't have public access issues but overuse may put St George Illawarra's long term future at Kogarah in doubt if the venue isn't ready for their round two clash with South Sydney.

The inability of the Sea Eagles and Dragons to play trial matches at their home grounds last weekend highlighted the problem facing the major sporting codes in Sydney if political wrangling continues to delay the rebuilding of Allianz Stadium.

"It needs to be done and it needs to be done now," one senior official told NRL.com.

With the Moore Park venue out of action since the end of last season, Kogarah, Brookvale and Leichhardt Oval have borne the brunt of hosting Sydney FC A-League and Waratahs Super Rugby matches which would have otherwise been played at Allianz Stadium.

Sydney FC have played eight A-League matches at Kogarah and are scheduled to use the venue for their upcoming Asian Champions League fixtures, while the W-League grand final was also held there.

Like Manly, who moved their trial against Cronulla to Shark Park, Sydney FC have already shifted their next A-League home game from Brookvale to Leichhardt, which will also host Thursday's Cup of Nations double-header featuring the Matildas after the FFA shifted it from Netstrata Jubilee Stadium.


WIN Stadium, which hosted St George Illawarra’s trial against Newcastle on Saturday night after the playing surface at Kogarah was deemed unsafe, now appears set to be the venue for the March 23 clash with Souths – despite initially being unavailable due to construction work on the northern grandstand roof.

Scheduling of other events at Netstrata Jubilee Stadium had also been the cause of frustration for the Dragons as they were forced to host consecutive games at WIN Stadium in Rounds 15, 16 and 17, and then play three home games at Kogarah in four weeks between Round 20 and 23.

St George Illawarra's agreement with Georges River Council to play home games at Kogarah expires at the end of the season and there is the possibility that the club could look elsewhere from next year. The new Bankwest Stadium at Parramatta is likely to be an option.

The Round 6 clash between Parramatta and Wests Tigers which will open Bankwest Stadium is headed for a 30,000 sell-out and the Eels have set new membership records this season, despite finishing last in 2018.

The stadium debate dominating the lead up to the NSW election is in direct contrast to the attitude in Melbourne, where government spending to maintain the Victorian capital's reputation as one of the world's greatest sporting cities is widely supported.

The NSW Land and Environment Court last week agreed to an injunction delaying further demolition of Allianz Stadium and the Labor Party is threatening to halt the $1.3 billion spending on Allianz and ANZ Stadium if it wins the upcoming state election.

Yet while suburban grounds have appeal because of the atmosphere generated by a crowd of about 15,000, the bigger stadiums will usually offer a financial guarantee for clubs to play their home games there.

In contrast, it is believed to cost the Dragons about $100,000 just to open the gates at Kogarah and they suffered a financial hit by having to relocate the Knights trial to Wollongong with just 36-hours notice, as the crowd was below initial expectations and a number of corporate functions had to be cancelled.

Member for Kiama and Parliamentary Secretary for the Illawarra and South Coast Gareth Ward said at Monday's announcement that the end-of-season Kangaroos-Kiwis Test would be at WIN Stadium that the venue was available to host more Dragons matches if they could not be played at Kogarah.

The views in this article do not necessarily express the opinions of the NRL, ARLC, NRL clubs or state associations.

 

[franklin2323]

80k seater... Does that mean ANZ is getting the upgrade still? I can handle that and sorting out Allianz later. Keep ANZ as scheduled while Allianz plays out in court and hopefully gets down graded

 

[adamkungl]

Oh god.

So Labor will throw tiny amounts of money putting lipstick on the various pigs around the suburbs with poor access and spectator facilities.

But hey! You can sit on the hill! Which your kids will love! Unless it rains. Or is windy. Or is cold. And we’ll still slug you $20 for a pie and a coke. In which case your kids - and you - won’t want to go.

It’s also definitely going to help the city and the state attracting big ticket events. I can see it now: The NFL playing an international match at Shark Park, Liverpool playing Chelsea at Kograh and a Soccer World Cup Final at Penrith.

We were so f**king close to fixing this shit and it’s going to be ruined so the ALP can win a dick measuring contest.

Spot on

Suburban grounds are reaching the end of their lives as first grade venues.

Last week we saw Kogarah and Brookvale both declared unfit for TRIAL GAMES.

The people claim they want the grass hills but don't show up when it's given to them, bar a once or twice a year flash in the pan when the stars align (perfect weather, 2 teams in good form, no other events on the same weekend, no trackworks, etc etc etc) and we all declare how much we Love Sunday Afternoon Football at Leichhardt.
Most clubs that have taken games to modern stadiums has increased their crowds even while their fans complained. Souths traditional home is a once a year preseason throwback and as a club they go from strength to strength (and their fans still go on about how much souuuul they have).
I wonder if Wests, after pulling 25-30k for every game at Bankwest this year, will think twice before taking 8 games out to the suburbs for 11k crowds in 2020 onwards?

If people REALLY want the grassroots suburban experience, they'll go to NSW Cup games in numbers. But they don't and won't.

Parra
Canterbury
Souths
Easts
will all be playing out of modern stadiums full time. Up to them and their fans to take maximum advantage

Big decisions coming for these clubs. To keep up they'll need to be pulling a few crowds above 20k and the suburban grounds don't allow it.
My thoughts (most fans probably wont agree):

Wests - should go Parra 10 games or full time. Leichhardt and Campbeltown once a year events. Time to stop fracturing their own fanbase and look to their future.

St George - relegate Kogarah to one-off. 6 games at the new SFS and 5 or 6 in Wollongong.

Penrith & Cronulla - grounds in pretty good shape and too far out for central stadiums to be a week to week option. Any investment in suburban grounds should focus on these two for practical/geographical reasons. BUT they should both set up a big public holiday game like some other clubs do, at a central stadium, to give themselves an annual 30k crowd. It could even be against each other. They have some great shared players throughout their histories and were founded in the same year.

Manly - Brookvale seems a lost cause. Government funding promises evaporate, the local council charges rent well above its worth while failing to adequately maintain it, and fans are no longer buying in. The worst field, views, facilities, transport, and parking of any NRL stadium. I don't know if the changes required to bring it up to scratch are possible.
A move to Gosford and rebranding as a Central Coast-Northern Sydney superclub hold a far more prosperous future.

 

[M2D2]

The brains trust in this thread still seems to be continuing their form.
What a twist.

 

[Timbo]

Spot on

Suburban grounds are reaching the end of their lives as first grade venues.

Last week we saw Kogarah and Brookvale both declared unfit for TRIAL GAMES.

The people claim they want the grass hills but don't show up when it's given to them, bar a once or twice a year flash in the pan when the stars align (perfect weather, 2 teams in good form, no other events on the same weekend, no trackworks, etc etc etc) and we all declare how much we Love Sunday Afternoon Football at Leichhardt.
Most clubs that have taken games to modern stadiums has increased their crowds even while their fans complained. Souths traditional home is a once a year preseason throwback and as a club they go from strength to strength (and their fans still go on about how much souuuul they have).
I wonder if Wests, after pulling 25-30k for every game at Bankwest this year, will think twice before taking 8 games out to the suburbs for 11k crowds in 2020 onwards?

If people REALLY want the grassroots suburban experience, they'll go to NSW Cup games in numbers. But they don't and won't.

Parra
Canterbury
Souths
Easts
will all be playing out of modern stadiums full time. Up to them and their fans to take maximum advantage

Big decisions coming for these clubs. To keep up they'll need to be pulling a few crowds above 20k and the suburban grounds don't allow it.
My thoughts (most fans probably wont agree):

Wests - should go Parra 10 games or full time. Leichhardt and Campbeltown once a year events. Time to stop fracturing their own fanbase and look to their future.

St George - relegate Kogarah to one-off. 6 games at the new SFS and 5 or 6 in Wollongong.

Penrith & Cronulla - grounds in pretty good shape and too far out for central stadiums to be a week to week option. Any investment in suburban grounds should focus on these two for practical/geographical reasons. BUT they should both set up a big public holiday game like some other clubs do, at a central stadium, to give themselves an annual 30k crowd. It could even be against each other. They have some great shared players throughout their histories and were founded in the same year.

Manly - Brookvale seems a lost cause. Government funding promises evaporate, the local council charges rent well above its worth while failing to adequately maintain it, and fans are no longer buying in. The worst field, views, facilities, transport, and parking of any NRL stadium. I don't know if the changes required to bring it up to scratch are possible.
A move to Gosford and rebranding as a Central Coast-Northern Sydney superclub hold a far more prosperous future.

Maybe we could call this superclub the Northern Eagles?

I'll stop as I'm being facetious - I completely agree with you. Brookie is a lost cause and I shudder every time it get a $1 million upgrade to it's turnstiles or $2 million for it's toilets because it means the Eagles will just cling on for a few more years. If they want to retain any connection to anywhere near their area at all the Central Coast Eagles are their best play.

Shark Park and Penrith are really the only viable stadiums as club grounds in the medium term. They're ok for the bulk of their games. I would like to hope that the demand for tickets could see Penrith moving games vs. the Eels, Tigers and Bulldogs to Bankwest at some point in the future, and that the Sharks look to move derbys vs the Dragons to the new SFS.

The reality is that Leichardt, Belmore, Campbelltown and Brookvale's day has passed. They might be ok in the future for trial matches and NSW Cup matches but that's about it.

 

[adamkungl]

Maybe we could call this superclub the Northern Eagles?

Central Coast Sea Eagles doesn't have the whiff of failure haha
Steal the Bears juniors while they're at it, why are they the only non-NRL sydney club to have a junior base still?

 

[TheFrog]

Is that you Peter Fitzsimons, didn't think you would post on a league forum. Probably I've in the inner city too.

Must be the only thing I agree with him on. Live in the outer suburbs of Penrith, right on the border.

I would like to hope that the demand for tickets could see Penrith moving games vs. the Eels, Tigers and Bulldogs to Bankwest at some point in the future

Crowds for Penrith vs Parramatta games have been substantially greater at Penrith than Parra for years, despite Parramatta having the larger (and some would say better) ground before it was razed. This is because there are more Parramatta supporters in Penrith that Penrikth supporters in Parramatta, but this might change in years to come if current on-field trends continue. It is also because Penrith fans don't like to travel much, for whatever reason. We have already let it be known that we don't wish our home games to be moved 30km away, any more than the Cowboys or Knights would. Tigers and Bulldogs draw well at Penrith too. To move our games en masse would be akin to killing our club.

 

[adamkungl]

It's very difficult to see Penrith or Cronulla out of a more central stadium for more than a very small handful of games per year.

 

[TheFrog]

Last week we saw Kogarah and Brookvale both declared unfit for TRIAL GAMES.

Both have hosted high level games of other codes. Maybe that has something to do with it.

 

[Timmah]

Must be the only thing I agree with him on. Live in the outer suburbs of Penrith, right on the border.



Crowds for Penrith vs Parramatta games have been substantially greater at Penrith than Parra for years, despite Parramatta having the larger (and some would say better) ground before it was razed. This is because there are more Parramatta supporters in Penrith that Penrikth supporters in Parramatta, but this might change in years to come if current on-field trends continue. It is also because Penrith fans don't like to travel much, for whatever reason. We have already let it be known that we don't wish our home games to be moved 30km away, any more than the Cowboys or Knights would. Tigers and Bulldogs draw well at Penrith too. To move our games en masse would be akin to killing our club.

A lot of it was probably to do with the fact Parramatta was also a shit venue.