The Game Future NRL Stadiums part II

[Steel Saints]

Now this is pie in the sky stuff from yours truly. But imagine if Souths moved back to the new SFS. Then the Roosters move to North Sydney Oval. NSO could get a refurb because it would be a venue used 12 months of the year with domestic and women's cricket in the summer. It doesn't need to be converted to rectangular as it's a fairly small oval venue. If they could refurb the old stands, put seating on the hill, then the ground would have a very unique charm about it. Not every venue needs to be like Bankwest.

Meanwhile Manly relocates to Central Coast. Then you have a situation where Souths, Roosters and Manly cover the east, north and Central Coast respectively. But of course this will never happen.

 

[Captain Apollo]

Hey does anyone know if there is a train station anywhere on the north shore that could potentially have a 25k stadium built over it, something like the mooted Central Station option?

The North Shore line is very narrow, it is lucky to be two actual lines for one train going each way, at just about every station. Further quite a bit of the line goes through very narrow gullies. There is no where near the overhead space at any place on that line (bar North Sydney which is already built over) to be able to build a stadium.

 

[Captain Apollo]

Now this is pie in the sky stuff from yours truly. But imagine if Souths moved back to the new SFS. Then the Roosters move to North Sydney Oval. NSO could get a refurb because it would be a venue used 12 months of the year with domestic and women's cricket in the summer. It doesn't need to be converted to rectangular as it's a fairly small oval venue. If they could refurb the old stands, put seating on the hill, then the ground would have a very unique charm about it. Not every venue needs to be like Bankwest.

Meanwhile Manly relocates to Central Coast. Then you have a situation where Souths, Roosters and Manly cover the east, north and Central Coast respectively. But of course this will never happen.

The Roosters won't be moving to North Sydney Oval. Its further away from Easts Leagues Club to start with, so commercially it makes no sense for them to do so. From an historical perspective, other than when the SFS was under construction, the club has played its home games out of the SCG precinct (be it at the Sportsground, the SFS, the SCG or the original Sydney Showground).

 

[reanimate]

Has enough time passed that the Bears could conceivable buy back in to the Sea Eagles if the team was renamed “North Sydney” or “North Sydney - Central Coast” (ie. “Norths” in casual conversation)? Could today’s Sea Eagles fans accept losing the name “Manly - Warringah” if everything else about the current team remained unchanged, other than its appeal to a wider market?

Leigh.

In theory, yes. The Penns have apparently knocked back a few attractive offers to buy Manly though, so any offer from a Bears consortium would be met with an immediate no. It’s more likely, in my mind, that a future cashed up Manly owner buys the Bears structure and folds the NSW cup side into the Sea Eagles organisation.

No Manly fan will accept losing the name ‘Manly’ from the side in the future again though, a more acceptable compromise would be dropping Warringah from the team’s name and being known as something like ‘Manly-North Sydney’ or ‘Manly-North Shore’. This way, the team could still be known as Manly in shorthand, but it would also acknowledge the North Shore.

Either way, it will take direction and leadership from the NRL to make something happen in this space, the status quo is not doing the game any favours.

 

[T-Boon]

Would they call themselves manly if they played somewhere sensible like North Sydney Oval ?

 

[Steel Saints]

The Roosters won't be moving to North Sydney Oval. Its further away from Easts Leagues Club to start with, so commercially it makes no sense for them to do so. From an historical perspective, other than when the SFS was under construction, the club has played its home games out of the SCG precinct (be it at the Sportsground, the SFS, the SCG or the original Sydney Showground).

Yep, and the other thing also is for the Roosters to take advantage of the corporate boxes at the new SFS.

 

[TheRam]

The North Shore line is very narrow, it is lucky to be two actual lines for one train going each way, at just about every station. Further quite a bit of the line goes through very narrow gullies. There is no where near the overhead space at any place on that line (bar North Sydney which is already built over) to be able to build a stadium.

Thanks mate, I thought so, but I just wanted to make sure I wasn't forgetting one that might do the trick.

Manly is just such a bad location for a Stadium from an expand their and the NRL's support base point of view.

If they build it at Brookvale, which unfortunately seems to be the case when V'Landys gets it done, there is no easy public transport link for anyone wanting to go there out of the local area. It also says to the overwhelming majority of the people on the North Shore this is a very localized team catering to this specific area and Manly themselves foster that notion and have done f**k all to grow their brand to the wider Northern community.

Pity, there are a couple of places on the North Shore, like St Leonards for one, that if they built it there, it would instantly make it accessible by train and other public transport and also over time, bring in tens of thousands more as possible supporters. Especially if they also changed their name to North Shore or North Sydney Sea Eagles or something similar to appeal to the whole Northern community.

I wish V'Landys would micro manage these clubs more and get them to get out of their funk and myopic mentality. If they want the 10's of millions that they get from all the benefits of being in the NRL, then they should contribute to making their market share and therefore the game bigger. Just sitting on your little turf and not having aspirations to capture the burgeoning areas around you that are without any true representation is just plain folly and out right lunacy.

 

[magpie_man]

In theory, yes. The Penns have apparently knocked back a few attractive offers to buy Manly though, so any offer from a Bears consortium would be met with an immediate no. It’s more likely, in my mind, that a future cashed up Manly owner buys the Bears structure and folds the NSW cup side into the Sea Eagles organisation.

No Manly fan will accept losing the name ‘Manly’ from the side in the future again though, a more acceptable compromise would be dropping Warringah from the team’s name and being known as something like ‘Manly-North Sydney’ or ‘Manly-North Shore’. This way, the team could still be known as Manly in shorthand, but it would also acknowledge the North Shore.

Either way, it will take direction and leadership from the NRL to make something happen in this space, the status quo is not doing the game any favours.

Surely it would be worth V'landys facilitating some sort of mediation between the two parties.
I wonder if they could do a 33% split between North Sydney, Brookvale and Gosford?

 

[reanimate]

Would they call themselves manly if they played somewhere sensible like North Sydney Oval ?

Ideally, yes. Even if we were gifted a brand new stadium at NSO2, Manly doesn't want to lose their identity again, the name has to stay in some capacity.

Manly is just such a bad location for a Stadium from an expand their and the NRL's support base point of view.

If they build it at Brookvale, which unfortunately seems to be the case when V'Landys gets it done, there is no easy public transport link for anyone wanting to go there out of the local area. It also says to the overwhelming majority of the people on the North Shore this is a very localized team catering to this specific area and Manly themselves foster that notion and have done f**k all to grow their brand to the wider Northern community.

Pity, there are a couple of places on the North Shore, like St Leonards for one, that if they built it there, it would instantly make it accessible by train and other public transport and also over time, bring in tens of thousands more as possible supporters. Especially if they also changed their name to North Shore or North Sydney Sea Eagles or something similar to appeal to the whole Northern community.

I wish V'Landys would micro manage these clubs more and get them to get out of their funk and myopic mentality. If they want the 10's of millions that they get from all the benefits of being in the NRL, then they should contribute to making their market share and therefore the game bigger. Just sitting on your little turf and not having aspirations to capture the burgeoning areas around you that are without any true representation is just plain folly and out right lunacy.

It's not great, but it's not awful. It's right on the main road, there are bus stops right outside and there will be new developments happening just down the road from it in the future which should bring a new set of shops and potentially nightlife as well. It's 30-40 minutes from Wynyard (differs with traffic obviously).

As I previously indicated, yes, Manly should be growing in the North Shore, but Norths still control the area from a development and territory standpoint and their partner club is the one who benefits from any Manly investment. V'Landys should step in and force the issue, the whole area should be under the control of one body. The status quo has led to nothing but rot and malaise.

 

[T-Boon]

Just move 6 games a year to NSO and let the fans decide. The problem with manly is it is too far from everywhere manly fans won’t travel to any other part of Sydney even for semis. NSO would attract away fans existing fans from Manly and a new bunch of northern suburbs fans.

 

[reanimate]

Surely it would be worth V'landys facilitating some sort of mediation between the two parties.
I wonder if they could do a 33% split between North Sydney, Brookvale and Gosford?

100% it’d be worth it. I don’t see the situation being resolved in any other way, bar a future rich Manly owner also buying up the Bears and the Norths group.

Just move 6 games a year to NSO and let the fans decide. The problem with manly is it is too far from everywhere manly fans won’t travel to any other part of Sydney even for semis. NSO would attract away fans existing fans from Manly and a new bunch of northern suburbs fans.

NSO isn’t a great stadium for RL. It’s a nice day out for the occasional game, but being an oval, the viewing angles aren’t great. The stadium probably won’t see any major development due to its heritage status though, plus if you did it up to modern standards the AFL could play there too and it would defeat the idea of a new dedicated northern rectangular stadium. I can’t see a new rectangular stadium being built at NSO2 over doing up Brookvale either.

 

[Captain Apollo]

100% it’d be worth it. I don’t see the situation being resolved in any other way, bar a future rich Manly owner also buying up the Bears and the Norths group.

NSO isn’t a great stadium for RL. It’s a nice day out for the occasional game, but being an oval, the viewing angles aren’t great. The stadium probably won’t see any major development due to its heritage status though, plus if you did it up to modern standards the AFL could play there too and it would defeat the idea of a new dedicated northern rectangular stadium. I can’t see a new rectangular stadium being built at NSO2 over doing up Brookvale either.

Also part of the reason the North Sydney Bears were willing to move to Gosford was due to the high costs they were charged for using the ground by the local council. IIRC they were being charged about 5 to 6 times more per game to use the oval than any other professional sport was. So it may not be cost effective to play their regularly.

 

[Timbo]

100% it’d be worth it. I don’t see the situation being resolved in any other way, bar a future rich Manly owner also buying up the Bears and the Norths group.

NSO isn’t a great stadium for RL. It’s a nice day out for the occasional game, but being an oval, the viewing angles aren’t great. The stadium probably won’t see any major development due to its heritage status though, plus if you did it up to modern standards the AFL could play there too and it would defeat the idea of a new dedicated northern rectangular stadium. I can’t see a new rectangular stadium being built at NSO2 over doing up Brookvale either.

I actually don’t think AFL can play there - the playing surface is too small to accomodate the minimum sized playing field.

I seem to recall the Swans playing a trial there once and they had to reduce the number of players on the field.

 

[reanimate]

Also part of the reason the North Sydney Bears were willing to move to Gosford was due to the high costs they were charged for using the ground by the local council. IIRC they were being charged about 5 to 6 times more per game to use the oval than any other professional sport was. So it may not be cost effective to play their regularly.

That sounds right, probably some Unionite in the council sticking it to RL in any way they could.

Our mayor on the Northern Beaches doesn't seem to be an RL fan either. Back when there were three councils on the Beaches, Warringah Council was in charge of Brookvale and was headed by the same guy. He played hardball with huge rent costs with the Sea Eagles to the point that he had the mayor of Manly Council publicly criticise him for trying to drive them out of the area.

I actually don’t think AFL can play there - the playing surface is too small to accomodate the minimum sized playing field.

I seem to recall the Swans playing a trial there once and they had to reduce the number of players on the field.

If a redevelopment was on the cards, the AFL would be straight in there saying it needs to be made bigger to accommodate them playing there too, they wouldn't let the opportunity pass.

 

[gunpk]

I also agree that the only way Manly have a chance to grow on the North shore is if the NRL step in and help. I remember back around 2008~11 when Manly were successful they were trying to send over players to malls, schools and junior games in the North Shore but the Bears told them to Fk off as it was their area.
Manly really can't spread into the North shore until NRL sort it out with the Bears

 

[Suitman]

Hey does anyone know if there is a train station anywhere on the north shore that could potentially have a 25k stadium built over it, something like the mooted Central Station option?

There is a large rail holding yard just north of Hornsby station where the trains sleep at night. This would be the only place large enough for your proposal.
Otherwise, no.

 

[Jamberoo]

That sounds right, probably some Unionite in the council sticking it to RL in any way they could.

Our mayor on the Northern Beaches doesn't seem to be an RL fan either. Back when there were three councils on the Beaches, Warringah Council was in charge of Brookvale and was headed by the same guy. He played hardball with huge rent costs with the Sea Eagles to the point that he had the mayor of Manly Council publicly criticise him for trying to drive them out of the area.

If a redevelopment was on the cards, the AFL would be straight in there saying it needs to be made bigger to accommodate them playing there too, they wouldn't let the opportunity pass.

The AFL clubs who are temporarily in Sydney were shocked at the poor oval facilities, so yes the AFL will be pushing hard in the next few years for upgraded ovals.
I assume this is no longer happening...
https://www.newtownjets.com/major-a...anese-mp-regarding-the-future-of-henson-park/

 

[titoelcolombiano]

We don't need Manly or Norths to grow popularity of the game in North Sydney. The Roosters are the ''wealthy'' Sydney club and can easily gel with the culture of the affluent Northern and Eastern suburbs of the city. Plus they can stay at Moore Park whilst doing so, both the Swans and Waratahs manage it perfectly well.

 

[Timbo]

That sounds right, probably some Unionite in the council sticking it to RL in any way they could.

Our mayor on the Northern Beaches doesn't seem to be an RL fan either. Back when there were three councils on the Beaches, Warringah Council was in charge of Brookvale and was headed by the same guy. He played hardball with huge rent costs with the Sea Eagles to the point that he had the mayor of Manly Council publicly criticise him for trying to drive them out of the area.

If a redevelopment was on the cards, the AFL would be straight in there saying it needs to be made bigger to accommodate them playing there too, they wouldn't let the opportunity pass.

You can’t make North Sydney Oval bigger. It’s boxed in by roads and the stands and trees are heritage listed.

 

[The_Frog]

There is a large rail holding yard just north of Hornsby station where the trains sleep at night. This would be the only place large enough for your proposal.

Then they'd have to build another car sidings. Can't see it. Car sidings are ugly but essential.