The Game Future NRL Stadiums part II

[Perth Red]

In what way is it successful? They aren't doing that well financially or in TV ratings and their crowds stink.
Additionally Sydney Rabbitohs is a better name because the team plays in Sydney while South Sydney is a ridiculous name because they don't play anywhere near South Sydney. Actually I am not even sure South Sydney is a place. If it is the Toes certainly don't play there.

they Are one of the nrl’s few profitable clubs without pokies despite spending big, boast Biggest membership in Sydney and have transitioned from a small inner city suburb reach to a city wide one with a large national following and brand recognition. South sydney is now the brand, not the location. It doesn’t matter where they play, in fact if they were playing in south sydney they’d be as small as manly. Playing in a central stadium allows them to reach a much larger fan catchment. Only thing holding them back is how absolutely sht anz stadium is for club games.
Eels, tigers and bulldogs are heading same way. Roosters have an opportunity if they spread their wings north.

 

[T-Boon]

they Are one of the nrl’s few profitable clubs without pokies despite spending big, boast Biggest membership in Sydney and have transitioned from a small inner city suburb reach to a city wide one with a large national following and brand recognition. South sydney is now the brand, not the location. It doesn’t matter where they play, in fact if they were playing in south sydney they’d be as small as manly. Playing in a central stadium allows them to reach a much larger fan catchment. Only thing holding them back is how absolutely sht anz stadium is for club games.
Eels, tigers and bulldogs are heading same way. Roosters have an opportunity if they spread their wings north.

What are you talking about?

 

[taipan]

AFL recent crowd avg is up from 32k to 34-35k last three years. Avg dropped due to two expansion clubs admission but have been boosted in last three years by Perth and Adelaide larger stadiums. Melbourne attendances have been pretty consistent.

the whole tribalism home ground thing does not seem to be in anyone’s minds except some suburban sydney clubs. Most afl fans would rather be playing in a state of the art stadium with 30k plus crowds close to pubs and easy to get to than some small run down joint that they can call “home”.

The Newcastle Knights would laugh at the comments about tribalism and Sydney suburban clubs>they are one of teh most tribalistic clubs in the code.
As explained many times ,the Vic AFL clubs are well positioned for centralised stadiums,Sydney NRL cubs due to geography and transport infrastructure are not.
Else you may as well have Geelong playing at Marvel rather than their home ground.,geographically dumbMost Rugby league fans would prefer upgraded stadiums at their home ground, rather than some heartless centralised one Kms away.

 

[taipan]

they Are one of the nrl’s few profitable clubs without pokies despite spending big, boast Biggest membership in Sydney and have transitioned from a small inner city suburb reach to a city wide one with a large national following and brand recognition. South sydney is now the brand, not the location. It doesn’t matter where they play, in fact if they were playing in south sydney they’d be as small as manly. Playing in a central stadium allows them to reach a much larger fan catchment. Only thing holding them back is how absolutely sht anz stadium is for club games.
Eels, tigers and bulldogs are heading same way. Roosters have an opportunity if they spread their wings north.

That large ANZ stadium has done little for the Rabbitoh's crowds relative to membership.Yet most of their members live in the west.

 

[greenBV4]

As explained many times ,the Vic AFL clubs are well positioned for centralised stadiums,Sydney NRL cubs due to geography and transport infrastructure are not.
Else you may as well have Geelong playing at Marvel rather than their home ground.,geographically dumb

Actually the AFL does make Geelong play its large drawing games at the MCG

The AFL clubs definitely had an easy transition to centralised stadiums due to their location, but also because most of them moved towards being city wide clubs like Souths have before they moved to Central stadiums. I'm sure people in the outer suburbs here make up a big portion or even a majority of some clubs support despite not having a "local" team.

 

[taipan]

Actually the AFL does make Geelong play its large drawing games at the MCG

The AFL clubs definitely had an easy transition to centralised stadiums due to their location, but also because most of them moved towards being city wide clubs like Souths have before they moved to Central stadiums. I'm sure people in the outer suburbs here make up a big portion or even a majority of some clubs support despite not having a "local" team.

Then on that basis due to centralised stadiums,Geelong should play all their games at the main city stadiums either MCG or Marvel.
They don't because they care for local support:tribalism.

V'landys at least played the game in Wollongong and knows the local tribal influence in rugby league.

In Sydney the bulk of regular supporters of Penrith are local,Manly ditto,Sharks ditto,Eels ditto and Dragons ditto.Souths support is mainly from Western Sydney.Not too sure about Tigers or Bulldogs.Easts are all over the shop.
If these Sydney clubs had the bulk of their members near CBD and inner east/west, they would play at the SFS.
In an ideal world Sydney would have at least 3 Harbour Bridges, direct expressways, and direct rail running to 4 main you beaut stadiums, to cater for the rectangular codes.Unfortunately Sydney is not an ideal world re transport ,but an absolute schmozzle.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

That large ANZ stadium has done little for the Rabbitoh's crowds relative to membership.Yet most of their members live in the west.

I agree with you that ANZ is a terrible club ground but even this imperfect example of a centralised stadium has reaped benefits for the bunnies.

The three decades before moving to ANZ that Rabbitohs averaged around 10k with a few exceptions. Since moving to ANZ they have averaged around 15k with a couple of exceptions.

A similar thing has happened to Bulldogs crowds since moving there.

 

[Perth Red]

The Newcastle Knights would laugh at the comments about tribalism and Sydney suburban clubs>they are one of teh most tribalistic clubs in the code.
As explained many times ,the Vic AFL clubs are well positioned for centralised stadiums,Sydney NRL cubs due to geography and transport infrastructure are not.
Else you may as well have Geelong playing at Marvel rather than their home ground.,geographically dumbMost Rugby league fans would prefer upgraded stadiums at their home ground, rather than some heartless centralised one Kms away.

That pretty much sums up every sports club with a fan base. They are called "fanatics" for a reason lol. To suggest sharing a stadium makes you any less "tribal" is nonsense as has been proven around the world where clubs share stadiums.
I don't disagree re geography of Sydney being a barrier, but as Souths are showing it doesnt always have to be. It is really only an issue if the only people you are attractive to are the ones in the same postcode. You think Carlton fans all live in Carlton? lol.
Im sure they would but unless the clubs, game or Govt can find a few hundred million (and in State Govt case not worry about them not being owned by them) to do those local ground upgrades it may be a pipe dream.

 

[Perth Red]

That large ANZ stadium has done little for the Rabbitoh's crowds relative to membership.Yet most of their members live in the west.

Thats probably because its a horrible ground for club games. I wouldn't be keen to go every other week to ANZ either. What it has done though is allow them to build crowds (most years) from a 10-12k avtg to a high of 18k-20k avg.

Then on that basis due to centralised stadiums,Geelong should play all their games at the main city stadiums either MCG or Marvel.
They don't because they care for local support:tribalism.

What? Geelong is a different city 75km from those stadiums???? Why would they play there. It would be like suggesting Newcastle should play in Sydney lol. Bit different to being in the same city and being less than 30km from a decent stadium.

 

[Quicksilver]

Souths were shit for years and so they got shit crowds. They haven’t played at Redfern since what, the 1980s?

They spent like 20 years at the SFS which was Sydney’s best stadium- getting shit crowds because they were shit.

Their move to ANZ coincided with them getting good for the first time in forever.

It also probably helped them to tap their “traditional” supporter base that moved west when they were priced out of the inner-city and the south. They are a battler team with a bit of glamour chucked in. South Sydney being over 100 years old is very much a multigenerational club.

Furthermore, ANZ actually isn’t that far from Redfern, compared to the effect of a centralised stadium policy on other teams.

 

[reanimate]

What? Geelong is a different city 75km from those stadiums???? Why would they play there. It would be like suggesting Newcastle should play in Sydney lol. Bit different to being in the same city and being less than 30km from a decent stadium.

Geelong is more like the Central Coast in terms of travel time. Newcastle is an extra hour on top.

 

[Nqcowboy]

Geelong is more like the Central Coast in terms of travel time. Newcastle is an extra hour on top.

Yeah it’s not far, my housemate had to do two weeks in Geelong for work but the accomodation was shit and he had just started seeing this chick so he basically drove from thornbury to Geelong every second day

 

[taipan]

That pretty much sums up every sports club with a fan base. They are called "fanatics" for a reason lol. To suggest sharing a stadium makes you any less "tribal" is nonsense as has been proven around the world where clubs share stadiums.
I don't disagree re geography of Sydney being a barrier, but as Souths are showing it doesnt always have to be. It is really only an issue if the only people you are attractive to are the ones in the same postcode. You think Carlton fans all live in Carlton? lol.
Im sure they would but unless the clubs, game or Govt can find a few hundred million (and in State Govt case not worry about them not being owned by them) to do those local ground upgrades it may be a pipe dream.

They are called members LOL and they are the ones who deserve to be treated so.The bulk of the clubs I mentioned members ,are domiciled within reasonable distance of the Sydney clubs.
Really,you obviously have zero idea of Sydney and I'm talking tribalism in Sydney..You like to continue to compare Sydney with Melbourne and other cities around the world..And continue to do so,one more time ,Sydney is not Melbourne.
And you completely missed my point, of course there are NRL club fans living outside and across Oz and indeed parts of the world, the 2016 G/F emphasised that point.My point is there is a greater % within their area for certain Sydney clubs on a regular weekly basis..

Whilst Sydney has the geography and the transport debacle, tribalism will have a large % of their fans based around their home.Whether you or I like it or not, that is the fact.Of course if I moved interstate I would still follow the club and be tribal, but that has little do do with local tribalism which actually exists.
Europe itself could fit into East Coast Oz.I drive from Sydney to the. GC, thus to compare distance I've driven through number of European countries and they do have better developed/more expressways.

You think Geelong fans would put up with all their games at Marvel/MCG LOL?And BTW their State Govt had no qualms spending large sums on their stadium.

You are the one who spends a lot of time ,having a shot at Souths membership and their crowds who attend at ANZ.

I don't think about Carlton or the AFL, I leave that to you LOL.I much prefer to concentrate on a code I actually support, and not bootlick a code I have little time for.Each to his own tastes LOL.

 

[taipan]

Thats probably because its a horrible ground for club games. I wouldn't be keen to go every other week to ANZ either. What it has done though is allow them to build crowds (most years) from a 10-12k avtg to a high of 18k-20k avg.



What? Geelong is a different city 75km from those stadiums???? Why would they play there. It would be like suggesting Newcastle should play in Sydney lol. Bit different to being in the same city and being less than 30km from a decent stadium.

LOL but Geelong play at the MCG on occasions for home games.That they have an upgraded(State Govt assisted)stadium for their local tribe,means something.

The crowds initially at ANZ were far better for them(Souths )than most recent numbers.It is a centralised all seater stadium, which they will no doubt continue to use .One of the very reasons the sharks hate it, too far, and not rectangular.Plus they got a special deal there.And we are stuck with it,thanks intitially to your mob GWS and the AFL putting in dosh ,to keep it in the current configuration.

LOL And reality check Wollongong is a different city to Sydney, and Penrith may as well be a different city.Distance wise and time wise to get to Sydney CBD is not that much different to Geelong.And Campbelltown LOL.
And even for clubs closer in, the time to get to say the SFS or ANZ is almost the same as Geelong.Try getting to a 6pm game at the SFS from Cronulla after work.Or from Manly to ANZ.

Sheesh!! Seriously mate I'm glad you're not planning a military invasion, we'd be late all the flipping time.

LOL you still have extremed difficulty understanding Sydney traffic issues, the reason away fans in Sydney do not attend in numbers to other clubs' games.

You live in the most isolated city on the planet, and your understanding of Sydney issues reinforces the fact.

Upgraded stadiums for a few Sydney clubs is the answer,ATM money is the issue.Sunday afternoon 3pm games at a new SFS for blockbusters ,I would have no objection to ,but still clubs like Penrith would find it
not to their liking.

 

[taipan]

I agree with you that ANZ is a terrible club ground but even this imperfect example of a centralised stadium has reaped benefits for the bunnies.

The three decades before moving to ANZ that Rabbitohs averaged around 10k with a few exceptions. Since moving to ANZ they have averaged around 15k with a couple of exceptions.

A similar thing has happened to Bulldogs crowds since moving there.

Agree.But I did point out earlier many Souths fans live in Western Sydney.{Perhaps ditto the Bulldogs).The close to home attitude IMO exists.

 

[Perth Red]

Penrith would be the exception due to distance (though it would be interesting to see how many people they could attract from areas like Blacktown that are half the distance to Bankwest as they are to Penrith stadium), and Dragons games in Wollongong
Sharks, Manly, Dragons sydney games and Tigers could all be at shared stadiums rather than the rn down sub 20k grounds they use. Where those shared stadiums are, how the NRL can adapt to overcome the barriers of attendance (like not playing them at 6pm), how clubs can adapt to appeal to more than just their local postcode members etc is where a shared vision and strategy comes in. Or we could all talk about how suburban grounds need upgrading for another twenty years and be happy with the 13k crowd on the grass hills of these clubs.
The reality is the clubs dont have the money, the NRL wont spend the money and your State Govt wont spend big $'s on numerous facilities it doesnt own. So where are these clubs going to get the serious money needed to turn them into 21st century professional sport stadiums?

lol you make it sound like Sydney is this incredibly unique city in the world. I've been to plenty and its not. Guess what, put 5 million people in one place and it will be shthouse to get around. Haven't yet been to one that isnt, including melbourne (try driving to AAMI from the outer suburbs on a Friday night).

 

[greenBV4]

lol you make it sound like Sydney is this incredibly unique city in the world. I've been to plenty and its not. Guess what, put 5 million people in one place and it will be shthouse to get around. Haven't yet been to one that isnt, including melbourne (try driving to AAMI from the outer suburbs on a Friday night).

People also think melbourne is this unique city that doesn't get get traffic despite having 5 million people

The grid system sure helps a lot but is not flawless, turning right anywhere during peak traffic can be a mission in itself, and freeway on and off ramps still pile up

Try tell someone from Pakenham, Frankston, Werribee or Craigeburn how easy it is for them to get to the city in peak traffic

 

[taipan]

Penrith would be the exception due to distance (though it would be interesting to see how many people they could attract from areas like Blacktown that are half the distance to Bankwest as they are to Penrith stadium), and Dragons games in Wollongong
Sharks, Manly, Dragons sydney games and Tigers could all be at shared stadiums rather than the rn down sub 20k grounds they use. Where those shared stadiums are, how the NRL can adapt to overcome the barriers of attendance (like not playing them at 6pm), how clubs can adapt to appeal to more than just their local postcode members etc is where a shared vision and strategy comes in. Or we could all talk about how suburban grounds need upgrading for another twenty years and be happy with the 13k crowd on the grass hills of these clubs.
The reality is the clubs dont have the money, the NRL wont spend the money and your State Govt wont spend big $'s on numerous facilities it doesnt own. So where are these clubs going to get the serious money needed to turn them into 21st century professional sport stadiums?

lol you make it sound like Sydney is this incredibly unique city in the world. I've been to plenty and its not. Guess what, put 5 million people in one place and it will be shthouse to get around. Haven't yet been to one that isnt, including melbourne (try driving to AAMI from the outer suburbs on a Friday night).

Any shared stadiums would need to be reasonably close to their main base.And LOL what shared stadium would Manly move in with.
And new shared or upgraded stadiums would be 20k,That's just the way it is.We could talk about the AFL for 20 years like you do.With all the crap going on in this country ,you can't talk 6 months ahead.
Manly for a start Is going ahead with a $30m Centre of Excellence at Brookvale. If you have assets, you are in position to secure loans, and if you secure loans Govts can match on a dollar for dollar basis.

LOL as if I've spent my life travelling back and forth to the GC.I've been fortunate enough to travel to Europe and Asia (not USA or Sth Americas)with work, holidays and go on a Kangaroo supporter's tour. I do understand the road infrastructure that exists there, which I've travelled on not as a driver.

Pleaser mate FFS.
Fact Sydney is far wider spread, with the Harbour slicing it in two, has sh*thouse traffic issues and SFA stadiums where trains go direct to them.Melbourne whilst it has traffic issues(like all citie overall ,they pale into insignificance to Sydney..I've been to Hong Kong and Singapore Both with populations bigger than Sydney.Their rail system makes it easier to get around, and they also have traffic issues. I've been to Tokyo,Yokohams,Osaka,Nagoya,travelling around via the bullet train.
Oh and I've been to Wembley for a Challenge Cup final 84 Wigan v Widnes, via rail whilst in London.So please mate, with all due respect don't lecture me on overseas cities.

Just some facts re areas to ponder all sq kms.

Greater Sydney 13,542 sq kms
Tokyo 13,452kms
Los Angeles 12,559kms
Melbourne 9,992.5kms
Perth 6,417kms

 

[Quicksilver]

Still the line about the run down suburban ground with the hill.

I don’t know how many times it has to be explained that every ground has a different make up and is used for different games. There doesn’t have to be a one size fits all- for all teams and all games.

The hills at Cronulla is making up an ever smaller % of the ground. After the next round of works there will basically be a hill at one end behind a seating area. Plus a tiny grass area at the other. And when I talk to parents of young children, they actually find it easier to sit on the hill, so the kids can go wild.

Basically you’ve got a ground that provides something for all users from corporates to children... but the guy from Perth doesn’t like it.

 

[taipan]

People also think melbourne is this unique city that doesn't get get traffic despite having 5 million people

The grid system sure helps a lot but is not flawless, turning right anywhere during peak traffic can be a mission in itself, and freeway on and off ramps still pile up

Try tell someone from Pakenham, Frankston, Werribee or Craigeburn how easy it is for them to get to the city in peak traffic

Never argued cities including Melbourne don't have traffic issues,It's how the cities have handled them, the geography that exists.

The rail set up for Melbourne to stadiums, leaves Sydney for dead.
Melbourne was a planned city initially Sydney wasn't.
Check the Sydney metro area size compared to Melbourne, then. allow for teh Harbour effect on Northern suburbs of Sydney,Manly W in particular.