The Game Future NRL Stadiums part II

[Perth Red]

Sydney FC are moving there because the new SFS is too big.

will the council grant the state govt a long lease on it like over here when state give took over nib stadium and redeveloped it? Think they paid $25mill for a 50 year lease.

 

[Suitman]

Sydney FC are moving there because the new SFS is too big.

No they are not.
Did you not see the video I posted 2 posts above yours?

 

[Tiger Shark]

why would you spend that sort of money on a stadium for 6 games a year? Are dragons going to move there full time or is there other tenants going to use it?

Exactly, unless the Sharks commit to playing there which sounds like they're keen to go back to Shark Park. Perhaps if there's financial incentives that offsets the lower crowds/memberships going there brings they might consider it.

Dragons aren't playing there full time.

What other teams would want to play there ?

 

[Deacon]

Souths may return, ppl need to understand these new stadiums main source of income isn’t sporting events

 

[Jamberoo]

Souths may return, ppl need to understand these new stadiums main source of income isn’t sporting events

Every other successful stadium in Australia relies on sporting events as the main income. What income should they rely upon? How many stadiums in Sydney can survive off the two to six concerts per year that might pull 40k+?

 

[baselinepanther]

Sydney FC are moving there because the new SFS is too big.

erskenville oval is too big for them

 

[Jamberoo]

If anyone thinks that shared stadiums are going to work, just have a look at the ordinary crowds the Sharks are pulling at Kogarah. PVL is on the right track with smaller, updated stadiums for each team. English soccer is the model, not AFL.

 

[Perth Red]

If anyone thinks that shared stadiums are going to work, just have a look at the ordinary crowds the Sharks are pulling at Kogarah. PVL is on the right track with smaller, updated stadiums for each team. English soccer is the model, not AFL.

English soccer is playing out of state of the art large capacity stadiums which most of them have paid for themselves. No epl club is going to survive in a sub standard sub capacity ground. Yeh if these suburban clubs had $200mill to throw at these grounds and were attracting away club fans to games then I’d agree, but they can’t and never will. So it’s 12-14k in sub standard grounds as is or do something different. There should be min criteria brought in with clubs having X years to get there or agree to work with the nrl to develop shared new stadia. 25k capacity, all seater, 80% under cover, x % women’s toilets etc etc. lift your game or get out the way.

 

[Jamberoo]

English soccer is playing out of state of the art large capacity stadiums which most of them have paid for themselves. No epl club is going to survive in a sub standard sub capacity ground. Yeh if these suburban clubs had $200mill to throw at these grounds and were attracting away club fans to games then I’d agree, but they can’t and never will. So it’s 12-14k in sub standard grounds as is or do something different. There should be min criteria brought in with clubs having X years to get there or agree to work with the nrl to develop shared new stadia. 25k capacity, all seater, 80% under cover, x % women’s toilets etc etc. lift your game or get out the way.

There is no appetite to build the expensive 25k stadiums you speak of, from the clubs, the NRL, the government or the fans. No one besides you is taking about such a plan. It ain’t happening.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

Every other successful stadium in Australia relies on sporting events as the main income. What income should they rely upon? How many stadiums in Sydney can survive off the two to six concerts per year that might pull 40k+?

They shifted from one badly placed suburban stadium with shitty transport links and no parking to another....

Hardly a fair judgement on centralised stadiums.

Id be more interested to see them spend a few years at the new SFS and see what THAT does for the crowds...

 

[Perth Red]

There is no appetite to build the expensive 25k stadiums you speak of, from the clubs, the NRL, the government or the fans. No one besides you is taking about such a plan. It ain’t happening.

sad isn’t it. So little ambition or vision.

 

[Jamberoo]

Could Sydney RL fans attitude towards traveling for games be changed?

In Melbourne there was fierce initial backlash 30 years ago when the VFL/AFL started closing suburban stadiums and moving all games to the CBD. Within a few years that was all forgotten and crowds went up by over 50%.

What if each Sydney club was granted funds to update their stadium and training facilities (not expand, but renovate at a capacity of around 15K), on the condition that the four biggest games v other Syndey clubs were moved to either Bankwest or SFS. So each club would have 8 games at their home suburban stadium (v non Sydney clubs and smaller Syd clubs), and 8/9 at Bankwest or SFS (the bigger games, home & away). Using Manly as an example, they used to be a big club, so surely there must be thousands of Manly fans who don't live on Northern beaches who would might go to big games at SFS? Yes there would be some backlash but SFS is going to be awesome and 2023 is a year of opportunity.

Are there any circumstances under which fans would travel, and what are they?

 

[Bring back John Fifita]

Could Sydney RL fans attitude towards traveling for games be changed?

In Melbourne there was fierce initial backlash 30 years ago when the VFL/AFL started closing suburban stadiums and moving all games to the CBD. Within a few years that was all forgotten and crowds went up by over 50%.

What if each Sydney club was granted funds to update their stadium and training facilities (not expand, but renovate at a capacity of around 15K), on the condition that the four biggest games v other Syndey clubs were moved to either Bankwest or SFS. So each club would have 8 games at their home suburban stadium (v non Sydney clubs and smaller Syd clubs), and 8/9 at Bankwest or SFS (the bigger games, home & away). Using Manly as an example, they used to be a big club, so surely there must be thousands of Manly fans who don't live on Northern beaches who would might go to big games at SFS? Yes there would be some backlash but SFS is going to be awesome and 2023 is a year of opportunity.

Are there any circumstances under which fans would travel, and what are they?

To answer your last question first...

Perhaps. but it would need a state of the art rectangular stadium with rail transport right to “the front door” that links directly to all areas of the Sydney metro area. The stadium should also be in a location that offers other “entertainment” in its locale... eg restaurant, bars etc.

While the Sydney rail network has advanced a long way in recent years... it still is yet to provide comprehensive coverage of the metro area. A lot of this is to do with the geography of Sydney (eg its waterways). The new metro lines will help alleviate this..

As for a state of the art rectangular stadium... maximising the fan experience. Well one is being built in Moore Park. As much as the SFS was a good stadium for viewing from a seat... it was very dated in terms of catering, boxes, roof coverage in adverse weather.... and safety.. it needed to be knocked over...So Sydney hasn’t had a proper, large scale rectangular stadium since the SFS was opened in 88..which is now (IMO - rightly) gone.

Stadium Australia was built for the Olympics - well out of the CBD - with views to reconfigure after to a rectangular arena. However the AFL wanted to keep it more open to play games there so it was left open to how it is today. AFL don’t play there any more and now you’ve got a huge distance from the playing field to the fence... and if you’re up high... the play seems so far away. It’s not a good experience... and it’s not in Sydney...even if it’s close to the “population centre” of the metro region. And as for other “entertainment” in the precinct... it was basically nothing for a long time... an absolute buzzkill before/after a game. It’s gotten a bit better but it’s still relatively sterile compared to a city environment.

The new SFS will be that state of the art stadium with excellence in the game day experience at the match. But the lack of direct rail transport from the Sydney Metro area means that many people won’t travel there. Getting to central then waiting to squeeze
into trams / bus or do the 30 minute walk isn’t that attractive...

If you can get direct public transportation that can get fans from most parts of the metro area of Sydney outside a stadium within 40 minutes of leaving the platform - I think that’s the key. But that’s a big ask.

A heavy rail line with a station at Moore park could help do that. But that’d cost huge $$$$$ and I can’t see it happening for a long long time, if at all.

 

[MugaB]

Could Sydney RL fans attitude towards traveling for games be changed?

In Melbourne there was fierce initial backlash 30 years ago when the VFL/AFL started closing suburban stadiums and moving all games to the CBD. Within a few years that was all forgotten and crowds went up by over 50%.

What if each Sydney club was granted funds to update their stadium and training facilities (not expand, but renovate at a capacity of around 15K), on the condition that the four biggest games v other Syndey clubs were moved to either Bankwest or SFS. So each club would have 8 games at their home suburban stadium (v non Sydney clubs and smaller Syd clubs), and 8/9 at Bankwest or SFS (the bigger games, home & away). Using Manly as an example, they used to be a big club, so surely there must be thousands of Manly fans who don't live on Northern beaches who would might go to big games at SFS? Yes there would be some backlash but SFS is going to be awesome and 2023 is a year of opportunity.

Are there any circumstances under which fans would travel, and what are they?

This idea could work, but making all sydney clubs forfeit 4 games is a bit much, plus you'll already have wests/parra at bankwest, and souths/easts at the SFS somewhat permanently, so taking for example your penrith "home" game to verse wests/parra at bankwest for example just gives them another home game, if bankwest was a stadium with no home team, i would absolutely agree, or if we were talking about a revamped " Rectangular Homebush" that would make absolute sense to take at least 2-3 larger games to. The other issue is the form in some teams, prior to scheduling these larger events, if your the dogs this year taking as many games to bankwest would be better than the larger homebush, but a club like dragons who have exceeded expectations would be wise to take 2 games to that SFS (when built) to draw that big crowd vs parra or wests for example..
There's too many reasons why it wouldn't work in Sydney, but a neutral ground much like what ALF has done could work in the future maybe 10 years down the track, but realistically only for 2-3 home games per team

 

[Jamberoo]

you'll already have wests/parra at bankwest, and souths/easts at the SFS somewhat permanently, so taking for example your penrith "home" game to verse wests/parra at bankwest for example just gives them another home game, if bankwest was a stadium with no home team, i would absolutely agree

The clubs would not be ‘forfeiting’ home games, just hosting them elsewhere. Also they would play less ‘away’ games as the trade off. So all Sydney teams lose a little hole ground advantage, and lose some away disadvantage. It evens out.
It works fine in Melbourne. Geelong play two game per year at the MCG v MCG clubs. It means instead of 30k, you get 70k. Geelong members have their reserved seats and free entry, so it does not feel like an away game. Doing this is the only way to increase crowds.

 

[forby]

There is no way Penrith will Parramatta at BankWest as a “home” game!
Nor should they ever have to.
Penrith deserve to have Panthers Stadium upgraded before any other ground!

 

[Bring back John Fifita]

The clubs would not be ‘forfeiting’ home games, just hosting them elsewhere. Also they would play less ‘away’ games as the trade off. So all Sydney teams lose a little hole ground advantage, and lose some away disadvantage. It evens out.
It works fine in Melbourne. Geelong play two game per year at the MCG v MCG clubs. It means instead of 30k, you get 70k. Geelong members have their reserved seats and free entry, so it does not feel like an away game. Doing this is the only way to increase crowds.

There’s merit in this. And I see how it’d work down there...

It’s somewhat why teams like the Tigers n Dragons have played “home games” at the bigger modern stadiums like bankwest n Homebush before.... but not so much to draw a bigger gate, but because they offer far better corporate facilities than Jubilee or Campbelltown, Leichhardt.

The Tigers are in a bind. Neither of Leichhardt or Campbeltown are grounds to accomodate corporate sponsors / suites etc. So games get taken to Bankwest. Like it if not, corporates attract much needed $$$$.. but to only play 2 or 3 home games at Campbelltown a year.... one of the biggest growth areas in Sydney... is awful...

I like the idea of playing regular games at bigger venues ... but only in prime time slots on a Friday / Saturday night or Sunday arvo) where crowds travel in reasonably and can pour in the gates (not a Thursday or Friday 6pm).

The thing that Melbourne has on its side that Sydney doesn’t though is direct rail access to Jollimont / Southern Cross stations and a quick walk to the grounds, both of which are right on the edge of the cbd and thus pubs, restaurants etc etc.Its very easy to get to the MCG / Docklands from most parts of the metro area, and MTM coordinate rail services to get folk in n out fairly quickly.

The commute to Moore park can be horrendous... and Homebush is sterile outside the ground - not many options pre/post match ... aside from the ground itself..

 

[T-Boon]

Penrith deserve to have Panthers Stadium upgraded before any other ground!

No way. The ground only has one tenant and it is privately owned. Pay for the upgrade yourselves.
Havent the Panthers recently stepped back even further from women's rugby league? So even that is a massive negative.

 

[forby]

The ground is Council owned. Upgrade and make somebody else share it eg WSW!
Covid and money caused the drop out of Tasha Gale. They still give more support to the Juniors than the rest of the Sydney clubs combined!
Penrith are a Rugby League region - so you want to penalise them because they haven’t got a second sport to co-tenant? They have had 4/4 maximum crowds so far this year. Imagine if they had an upgraded 25-30k stadium! Or doesn’t that fit your narrative?

 

[reanimate]

Could Sydney RL fans attitude towards traveling for games be changed?

In Melbourne there was fierce initial backlash 30 years ago when the VFL/AFL started closing suburban stadiums and moving all games to the CBD. Within a few years that was all forgotten and crowds went up by over 50%.

What if each Sydney club was granted funds to update their stadium and training facilities (not expand, but renovate at a capacity of around 15K), on the condition that the four biggest games v other Syndey clubs were moved to either Bankwest or SFS. So each club would have 8 games at their home suburban stadium (v non Sydney clubs and smaller Syd clubs), and 8/9 at Bankwest or SFS (the bigger games, home & away). Using Manly as an example, they used to be a big club, so surely there must be thousands of Manly fans who don't live on Northern beaches who would might go to big games at SFS? Yes there would be some backlash but SFS is going to be awesome and 2023 is a year of opportunity.

Are there any circumstances under which fans would travel, and what are they?

One of the big advantages the AFL and Melbourne had is the quality transport network that made the move to shared stadiums work. Even teams on the outer edge of the city like Essendon can make it from their old ground at Windy Hill to Marvel stadium in 30 minutes. Brookvale Oval to the SFS is ~1 hour and 20 minutes.

Taking a few of the big games to the SFS could work, but they’d have to be staged on days to allow maximum travel time. Thursday and Friday games wouldn’t work.