The Game Future NRL Stadiums part II

[hrundi99]

That and possibly NOT fixing up Brookvale, but instead they should be building a brand new stadium, more closer to public transport, and not so far away from manly beach, maybe closer to the spit bridge, although there isn't many reserves or land around there

Have you ever been to the Northern Beaches? Doesn't seem like it.

There's a city bus stop outside the ground.

Manly Beach property is too expensive. Unless the rugby team wants to give up their ground?

Spit Bridge is the border between North Shore and Northern Beaches and there is no space there.

 

[TheRam]

Exactly right TheRam. For a club that has struggled off field in terms of sponsorship and supporters it makes very little sense from the outside. Whether you use an existing facility like the SFS or angle for a new stadium I don’t know but Manly need to find a facility more accessible to a greater number of supporters

Notice how most of our clubs are so stuck on not changing much at all? They show very little change or innovation. Their ideas of growth, if they even have any, are so nothing that nothing really changes and unless they are forced into change by outside forces, the status quo remains and atrophy eventually takes place.

This is why our game as a whole is so behind the leader of the pack, AFL. The AFL also had these types running their clubs, but the AFL got real lucky and changed their Governing body and constitution and put in charge a dictator who fought with all the small minded loser leaders in clubland and won. Also they were equally lucky and never had a selfish arse media tycoon disrupt the momentum of their growth and tear their game apart too. So now they are sailing with a wind to their backs in clear and open waters.

In contrast we still are fighting battles with our clubs that should have been sorted a quarter of a century ago. Unfortunately the media tycoon is still influencing way to much of our games decisions and direction and our clubs have structured the ARLC in such a way that they still have all the power. So they are given way to much money and need to do very little for it other then field a team to remain in the NRL.

That is not the way to run a professional sport in Australia in particular one which has the most competitive football landscape in the world with 4 dominant players all vying for their piece of the pie.

If we had a truly powerful and innovative and aspirational ARLC governing the game, they would then have the ideas and teeth to enforce them to advance our sport in leaps and bounds. Real KPI's set differently for each club(one size does not fit all) that would ensure REAL growth at all levels otherwise your allocated annual grant will be affected and or even the franchise licence itself. in server circumstance put in jeopardy.

Then under this type of leadership the ARLC, would and could influence and help lobby where a team like the Sea Eagles should be angling the Government to build a new boutique stadium. Instead we as a game are just happy and grateful to keep the status quo and just renovate the existing hard to get at without major transport network links available and limiting venue that has always been part of the fabric. Like I said, they will change very little unless they are forced to. Manly want to stay in that local area for the locals and be damned. If you don't want to travel and come to our little turf, then stuff ya!

But instead the Penns and everyone else involved with that club should be breaking their necks to work out a way to find a better more central and transport friendly location that can give them a real north shore presence and ultimately a future that can have unlimited growth and success.

 

[Perth Red]

Grahame Samuels was the man to sort it but he quit at the games refusal to modernise. The more things change, the more they stay the same when it comes to RL!

Samuel, who resigned from the ARL commission (which governs NRL) after disagreements with the direction under chairman John Grant – particularly over the ability of clubs to influence decisions – said unlike the AFL's governing body, which was independent of clubs, the ARL commission was "largely controlled by clubs''.

Samuel and another commissioner, Jeremy Smith, resigned from the ARL board, objecting to the commission allowing the clubs to raid the sustainability fund.

He said the AFL made its commission independent of clubs in 1992 via a report by David Crawford.

"The NRL is yet to get to that stage, although it set up its commission,'' Samuel told the Sunday Age and Sun-Herald.

Ex-AFL and NRL powerbroker: why the AFL is so much better off

Graeme Samuel, the only man to have been both an AFL and rugby league commissioner, has drawn a sharp contrast between a professional AFL and less professional NRL as the codes confront financial crises.

www.theage.com.au

 

[TheRam]

Grahame Samuels was the man to sort it but he quit at the games refusal to modernise. The more things change, the more they stay the same when it comes to RL!

Samuel, who resigned from the ARL commission (which governs NRL) after disagreements with the direction under chairman John Grant – particularly over the ability of clubs to influence decisions – said unlike the AFL's governing body, which was independent of clubs, the ARL commission was "largely controlled by clubs''.

Samuel and another commissioner, Jeremy Smith, resigned from the ARL board, objecting to the commission allowing the clubs to raid the sustainability fund.

He said the AFL made its commission independent of clubs in 1992 via a report by David Crawford.

"The NRL is yet to get to that stage, although it set up its commission,'' Samuel told the Sunday Age and Sun-Herald.

Ex-AFL and NRL powerbroker: why the AFL is so much better off

Graeme Samuel, the only man to have been both an AFL and rugby league commissioner, has drawn a sharp contrast between a professional AFL and less professional NRL as the codes confront financial crises.

www.theage.com.au

Spot on.

 

[MugaB]

Have you ever been to the Northern Beaches? Doesn't seem like it.

There's a city bus stop outside the ground.

Manly Beach property is too expensive. Unless the rugby team wants to give up their ground?

Spit Bridge is the border between North Shore and Northern Beaches and there is no space there.

I've been many times, as a penrith fan, i dont mind travelling sydney to watch away games, ive been to most grounds, and brookvale has its suburban shitehole charm, but its stuck in the middle of nowhere, with only street parking, so you've said there is city buses... great.. i drive, you want me to park in the city or catch a train in from where i live, but via town hall just to catch a specific bus to brookvale... nah dude, trainlines work coz they are quick, buses mill about, unless there is an express from Chatswood/Linfield on game day, then im driving in and then gotta look for street parking, i have enjoyed games there, but its not an easy travel if you're not from around the area, compare travel to Olympic park, Bankwest, or SFS to Brookvale

 

[TheRam]

I've been many times, as a penrith fan, i dont mind travelling sydney to watch away games, ive been to most grounds, and brookvale has its suburban shitehole charm, but its stuck in the middle of nowhere, with only street parking, so you've said there is city buses... great.. i drive, you want me to park in the city or catch a train in from where i live, but via town hall just to catch a specific bus to brookvale... nah dude, trainlines work coz they are quick, buses mill about, unless there is an express from Chatswood/Linfield on game day, then im driving in and then gotta look for street parking, i have enjoyed games there, but its not an easy travel if you're not from around the area, compare travel to Olympic park, Bankwest, or SFS to Brookvale

Brookvale is the opposite of an easy get to if you are coming from out of the local area. The locals like that though and there in lies the problem. Myopic and insular thinking.

The best location for a boutique stadium would be Chatswood Oval, but good luck getting the ok for that ever to happen. We haven't the clout for that type of annexation of such a valuable asset. But if that were turned into a 25-30K boutique stadium, it would be a sellout basically every game and the Sea Eagles would be the envy of every other footy franchise in the country for location, not to mention its soaring popularity in the whole of the north shore.

 

[Perth Red]

Brookvale is the opposite of an easy get to if you are coming from out of the local area. The locals like that though and there in lies the problem. Myopic and insular thinking.

The best location for a boutique stadium would be Chatswood Oval, but good luck getting the ok for that ever to happen. We haven't the clout for that type of annexation of such a valuable asset. But if that were turned into a 25-30K boutique stadium, it would be a sellout basically every game and the Sea Eagles would be the envy of every other footy franchise in the country for location, not to mention its soaring popularity in the whole of the north shore.

Manly have shown zero inclination they want to be anything more than they already are, they think putting some lipstick on brookvale will take their 10k crowds to 15k and all will be well. Given the lack of growth in most clubs they may well be right I suppose.

 

[reanimate]

Notice how most of our clubs are so stuck on not changing much at all? They show very little change or innovation. Their ideas of growth, if they even have any, are so nothing that nothing really changes and unless they are forced into change by outside forces, the status quo remains and atrophy eventually takes place.

This is why our game as a whole is so behind the leader of the pack, AFL. The AFL also had these types running their clubs, but the AFL got real lucky and changed their Governing body and constitution and put in charge a dictator who fought with all the small minded loser leaders in clubland and won. Also they were equally lucky and never had a selfish arse media tycoon disrupt the momentum of their growth and tear their game apart too. So now they are sailing with a wind to their backs in clear and open waters.

In contrast we still are fighting battles with our clubs that should have been sorted a quarter of a century ago. Unfortunately the media tycoon is still influencing way to much of our games decisions and direction and our clubs have structured the ARLC in such a way that they still have all the power. So they are given way to much money and need to do very little for it other then field a team to remain in the NRL.

That is not the way to run a professional sport in Australia in particular one which has the most competitive football landscape in the world with 4 dominant players all vying for their piece of the pie.

If we had a truly powerful and innovative and aspirational ARLC governing the game, they would then have the ideas and teeth to enforce them to advance our sport in leaps and bounds. Real KPI's set differently for each club(one size does not fit all) that would ensure REAL growth at all levels otherwise your allocated annual grant will be affected and or even the franchise licence itself. in server circumstance put in jeopardy.

Then under this type of leadership the ARLC, would and could influence and help lobby where a team like the Sea Eagles should be angling the Government to build a new boutique stadium. Instead we as a game are just happy and grateful to keep the status quo and just renovate the existing hard to get at without major transport network links available and limiting venue that has always been part of the fabric. Like I said, they will change very little unless they are forced to. Manly want to stay in that local area for the locals and be damned. If you don't want to travel and come to our little turf, then stuff ya!

But instead the Penns and everyone else involved with that club should be breaking their necks to work out a way to find a better more central and transport friendly location that can give them a real north shore presence and ultimately a future that can have unlimited growth and success.

Chatswood Oval would be the dream, but it will never happen. Other than Brookvale, you only really have Rat Park or North Sydney Oval as potential locations. Rat Park is even further than Brookvale for opposition fans and North Sydney Oval will always be an oval, it’s a terrible RL ground. There are parcels of land further to the north, such as St Ives Showground, but they’re even further away for opposition and home fans.

Brookvale isn’t a great location for Manly’s home ground, but other than a miracle happening that sees a BankWest style stadium getting built in Chatswood, it’s unlikely to get better.

 

[TheRam]

Chatswood Oval would be the dream, but it will never happen. Other than Brookvale, you only really have Rat Park or North Sydney Oval as potential locations. Rat Park is even further than Brookvale for opposition fans and North Sydney Oval will always be an oval, it’s a terrible RL ground. There are parcels of land further to the north, such as St Ives Showground, but they’re even further away for opposition and home fans.

Brookvale isn’t a great location for Manly’s home ground, but other than a miracle happening that sees a BankWest style stadium getting built in Chatswood, it’s unlikely to get better.

You are probably right, but I have always wondered if Gore Hill Oval would make a great location for a Boutique stadium? I mean it is only a few mins from St Leonards Train Station and seems to be big enough. I don't think it would create the same negative press from different groups trying to prevent it like the Chatswood Oval location would.

See the map below. I've circled the train station in red. Parking would probably be an issue, but with the train station so close I don't think it would be such a major problem.

 

[MugaB]

You are probably right, but I have always wondered if Gore Hill Oval would make a great location for a Boutique stadium? I mean it is only a few mins from St Leonards Train Station and seems to be big enough. I don't think it would create the same negative press from different groups trying to prevent it like the Chatswood Oval location would. See the map below. I've circled the train station in red.

View attachment 55792

Trouble with Gore hill is its not really Northern Beaches, plus the SFS is only 10mins away... Sea Eagles should be looking north of Chatswood (which is also not northern beaches, but atleast its a far distance from the City, but close to a trainline) maybe Killara

 

[TheRam]

Also from a long term point of view as time moves on and less an less people are still alive that are relatives to the people that are buried at the Cemetery next door, the Gov can start to move the dead from there and relocate them over time as has happened with older cemeteries before and therefore make the whole area a sports precinct and with substantial parking.

Lets say over the next hundred years when there will be NO major plots of land in the Metropolitan North Shore anymore, the Sea Eagles and NRL, plus any other rectangular code, would have future proofed their success and have a great central location with fantastic transport links including train to support them.

But again it needs vision, a long term game plan and strength to take such a bold and long term strategy from our leaders, but the benefits are massive for the club and sport in general if we were to think and take action this way.

So it will never happen.

 

[TheRam]

Trouble with Gore hill is its not really Northern Beaches, plus the SFS is only 10mins away... Sea Eagles should be looking north of Chatswood (which is also not northern beaches, but atleast its a far distance from the City, but close to a trainline) maybe Killara

The Sea Eagles need to stop thinking that way and embrace the whole North Shore. That is how over the long term they can capture the support of over a million people and make themselves, if not the most supported club and power house of the NRL, right up there with the top two or three. Also their junior catchment area would swell with more kids then ever too and would put them on a similar level with the likes of Parra and Penrith if they committed themselves to spend and grow it.

They then can start to engage with areas that were traditionally NS Bears catchments and beyond and make positive overtures to bring them onboard. Fight hard to get into the schools and so forth. Once the public see that they are legitimately making an effort and have committed to them in words, action and coin, then it is not so hard to get people on your side. But they need to see true and honest long term commitment not just empty promises.

This would do it and change everything in my mind for the better.

 

[GAZF]

Also from a long term point of view as time moves on and less an less people are still alive that are relatives to the people that are buried at the Cemetery next door, the Gov can start to move the dead from there and relocate them over time as has happened with older cemeteries before and therefore make the whole area a sports precinct and with substantial parking.

Lets say over the next hundred years when there will be NO major plots of land in the Metropolitan North Shore anymore, the Sea Eagles and NRL, plus any other rectangular code, would have future proofed their success and have a great central location with fantastic transport links including train to support them.

But again it needs vision, a long term game plan and strength to take such a bold and long term strategy from our leaders, but the benefits are massive for the club and sport in general if we were to think and take action this way.

So it will never happen.

They'd likely balls the relocation, ending up with a brand new stadium imploding into another dimension.

 

[Jamberoo]

Listening to SEN today, PVL is taking a break and it is likely that we will depart either Racing NSW or NRL at the end of the year. So, change could be coming soon.

 

[Perth Red]

Listening to SEN today, PVL is taking a break and it is likely that we will depart either Racing NSW or NRL at the end of the year. So, change could be coming soon.

Fingers crossed it’s the nrl! I can then put away my voodoo doll

 

[T-Boon]

Chatswood Oval would be the dream, but it will never happen. Other than Brookvale, you only really have Rat Park or North Sydney Oval as potential locations. Rat Park is even further than Brookvale for opposition fans and North Sydney Oval will always be an oval, it’s a terrible RL ground. There are parcels of land further to the north, such as St Ives Showground, but they’re even further away for opposition and home fans.

Brookvale isn’t a great location for Manly’s home ground, but other than a miracle happening that sees a BankWest style stadium getting built in Chatswood, it’s unlikely to get better.

There is a cemetery near St Leonards that could be turned into a stadium.
Cemetery's are a thing of the past even more so golf.
Actually I see that there is a Northern Beaches tunnel that is proposed. Would make a stadium at St Leonards even better.

 

[MugaB]

There is a cemetery near St Leonards that could be turned into a stadium.
Cemetery's are a thing of the past even more so golf.
Actually I see that there is a Northern Beaches tunnel that is proposed. Would make a stadium at St Leonards even better.

Desecrating a cemetery for manly, is the only way manly would move, aren't they into pagan rituals and such.... hehe go manly!


Seriously buiding a brand bew bankwest style stadium in St Leonards, is like saying lets build one in Leichardt or kogarah, whats the point? You're already so close to the city, the bradfield hwy starts at artarmon basically, you coud drive ito the SFS in minutes... i get it everyone wants the north shore assimilated again, but its better to give them a choice, follow the roosters at the SFS or a sea eagles playing out of a new stadium north of chatswood... somewhere where you can gauge fans from hornsby and northern beaches, not just north shore, thats why i brought up Killara or Gordon, nice area, just past chatwood, halfway between hornsby, and still close to the borders of northern beaches and more importantly has a trainline access... and in extreme case can take games to gosford, meaning the team can have a larger reach (but then isn't worthy of new stadium) but the stadium can be shared with the mariners, union, bears

 

[Dogs Of War]

Fingers crossed it’s the nrl! I can then put away my voodoo doll

No way he leaves racing. So NRL it will be.

 

[mongoose]

depends if he likes publicity. He gets a lot more of it being head of NRL than Racing.

 

[Captain Apollo]

There is a cemetery near St Leonards that could be turned into a stadium.
Cemetery's are a thing of the past even more so golf.
......

Wanna bet? There are some religions that only bury their dead and pretty much prohibit cremation (e.g. Catholicism, Judaism). That combined with the fact Sydney is running out of burial room at cemerteries, I would not expect your proposal to occur.