The Game Future NRL Stadiums part II

[The Great Dane]

So All Blacks dominance is why they are so popular and Kanagroos dominance is why they are not? Makes sense.

The Kanagroo's dominance is largely because their opposition has been incompetent (and that that wasn't incompetent is artificially enhanced). The All Black's on the other hand have been dominant despite coming up against strong competition.

In other words they are two very different types of dominance.

 

[baselinepanther]

I am no fan of GWS, but know people in Canberra and games do regularly sellout. I just googled images of GWS games and the ground is always 80% full. You are almost right, including standing room and the hill, it hold 16k - 13,550 seats.
Kogarah would be the biggest exaggerators in Australian crowds. It can be less than 20% full and they will post 10k.

"Sold" out would indicate people paying , freebies are given away like confetti to midgets games in canberra too & the people you know in canberra are probably vicky kicky fans who'll talk it up .
always 80% full ?
that would require an average of 12800
their ( dodgey) average at Manuka is 10,456 so closer to 65%.
But , I maintain its not even close to this.

And yeah you're right , Sydney FC need to post proper crowds at Kogarah oval. They're not as bad as the midgets but they're getting there

 

[The Great Dane]

And the NRL will always be struggling to keep hold of its superstars. Especially those from NZ and Fiji.

I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.

The NRL's main focus should always be on local markets and talent, and no induvial is bigger than the game.

 

[baselinepanther]

Shame that doesn't work for the kangaroos!

contests that resemble adults beating up kids gets boring after a while

plus union has nothing but internationals
union club comps around the world are utter rubbish

 

[The Great Dane]

"Sold" out would indicate people paying , freebies are given away like confetti to midgets games in canberra too & the people you know in canberra are probably vicky kicky fans who'll talk it up .
always 80% full ?
that would require an average of 12800
their ( dodgey) average at Manuka is 10,456 so closer to 65%.
But , I maintain its not even close to this.

Which they made at Manuka in 2016 (12886) and came very close to in 2017 (12502), and were reasonably close in 2018 and 19 (11686 and 11884 respectively) as well.

Every code and club gives away freebies, but I see no evidence that GWS has been papering their events in Canberra. Besides, if they were papering events you'd think it would be the ones in Sydney as it's more advantageous to them for their numbers to look good in Sydney than in Canberra.

 

[baselinepanther]

Which they made at Manuka in 2016 (12886) and came very close to in 2017 (12502), and were reasonably close in 2018 and 19 (11686 and 11884 respectively) as well.

Every code and club gives away freebies, but I see no evidence that GWS has been papering their events in Canberra. Besides, if they were papering events you'd think it would be the ones in Sydney as it's more advantageous to them for their numbers to look good in Sydney than in Canberra.

ahhhhh

If you're paying to watch a midgets game in canberra you're a fool

 

[2012....Sharks Year]

Free pass city for GWS in both Sydney and Canberra. As close as you can get to rent-a-crowd.

 

[T-Boon]

If we made NRL games in sydney free entry would crowds increase?
I doubt it. Sydney fans would still watch on TV.

 

[Suitman]

Home

stadium.sydneyfc.com

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

That's his point lol. Warriors rate when they are in a final but not otherwise, where as All Blacks rate every game. Its nonsense to think the NRL can spend an extra $15mill a year in NZ on a second club and somehow make any sort of dent in Union over there. We need to stop thinking we can take over non Rl areas and aim to be a very strong and sustainable second in them. Getting NRL and Origin on FTA streaming in NZ will help the game over there and that new Christchurch stadium certainly helps the case for a second team in NZ though.

Preliminary designs revealed for Christchurch stadium

Christchurch City Council has revealed four preliminary design images for the long-awaited 30,000 seat Canterbury Multi-Use Arena.

www.rnz.co.nz

The NRL has already made a difference by recruiting talented rugby union players from NZ schools and providing them with a career in RL. Add a second and a third professional NRL club to NZ and over the course of 20 or 30 years they'll draw even more players away from RU.

We don't need the Warriors or NZ 2/3 to be as popular as the All Blacks to weaken NZ RU. Every talented younger who gets paid to pass and carry a Steeden, instead of an onionball while dressed in an All Blacks jersey freezing his nuts off walking from line out to line out, makes their national RU team weaker and the Kiwis stronger.

Get the future NZ NRL teams strong enough to actually win the NRL and all of a sudden NZ has the much sought after dominance over Australia and regional rivalries, on a weekly basis, that they crave. With RU being on the nose over here and Europe picking the guts out of NZRU, there's a real opportunity to make inroads as people want to see the best. Watching weak Aussie RU teams getting belted by second string NZ RU clubs won't appeal to kids who want to see the best.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

If we made NRL games in sydney free entry would crowds increase?
I doubt it. Sydney fans would still watch on TV.

Bingo. Same goes for Brisbane and every other city in the country. Our game is best viewed from a lounge room on a 65" LED 4K TV.

 

[ReddFelon]

A similar argument could be made of the All Blacks though.

Unlike the Warriors they've more or less dominated their sport for the last 30 years, give or take. So the question becomes how much of their popularity is influenced by their success on the field.

From 1990 to 2011 the All Blacks were quite famously unable to win a World Cup. There was also the stretch between 1997 to 2002 where they lost every Bledisloe Cup to Australia and of course the 2007 World Cup where they dropped out in the quarter finals. The All Blacks aren't just a team, they're like the Indian Cricket Team or the English soccer team, they're a borderline religious movement in their home country that is deeply tied into their identity as a people. You've got more chance convincing Canada to stop watching hockey than you do getting the Kiwis to abandon the All Blacks.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

PR already covered my point pretty well. Think back to 2018 when the Warriors started the season 6-2 and Mt Smart was full all of a sudden. There were fans literally holding signs saying "we're did all these supporters come from?". The Warriors only rate when they're winning and making finals, if they have an average or worse season the support for them is almost non-existent and they're at least in the market where league is most popular within NZ. I've said before, an NZ 2 side would need to compete with the Crusaders, who are Perth Wildcats levels of dominant within their sport. Short of a Warriors vs NZ 2 grand final, you'll never top All Blacks performances in NZ.

Anyway, in 2026 when the new Christchurch stadium is built, the Dogs and Sea Eagles will likely be back to hosting the Warriors there once a year.

Are you and PR against having a team in Perth?

The West Coast Eagles are as big in Perth, if not bigger, than the All Blacks are in NZ. West Coast Pirates will also be competing against the Fremantle Dockers, who have a strong fanbase. I still think there's room for the Pirates to carve out a niche.

NZ2/3 wouldn't be competing with the All Blacks every week. The NRL is the largest and most prestigious club competition in either "rugby" code. People want to see the best, so give NZ a few seats at the table and watch the game grow. Our mission is aided somewhat by Euro RU picking the guts out of the NZRU.

 

[Colk]

Are you and PR against having a team in Perth?

The West Coast Eagles are as big in Perth, if not bigger, than the All Blacks are in NZ. West Coast Pirates will also be competing against the Fremantle Dockers, who have a strong fanbase. I still think there's room for the Pirates to carve out a niche.

NZ2/3 wouldn't be competing with the All Blacks every week. The NRL is the largest and most prestigious club competition in either "rugby" code. People want to see the best, so give NZ a few seats at the table and watch the game grow. Our mission is aided somewhat by Euro RU picking the guts out of the NZRU.

I think any expansion outside of NSW and Qld (which should happen) needs to clear eyed to the fact that you’re not going to usurp rugby union in NZ or AFL in WA/SA etc. All you are doing is putting a seat at the table and giving people an alternative.

 

[Perth Red]

Are you and PR against having a team in Perth?

The West Coast Eagles are as big in Perth, if not bigger, than the All Blacks are in NZ. West Coast Pirates will also be competing against the Fremantle Dockers, who have a strong fanbase. I still think there's room for the Pirates to carve out a niche.

NZ2/3 wouldn't be competing with the All Blacks every week. The NRL is the largest and most prestigious club competition in either "rugby" code. People want to see the best, so give NZ a few seats at the table and watch the game grow. Our mission is aided somewhat by Euro RU picking the guts out of the NZRU.

You’ve changed your tune. You suggested the nrl Could in some way weaken union in nz By adding another club. They won’t, just like a perth nrl team won’t make one jot of difference to the wc eagles. Carving out a strong and sustainable second place is what the goal is, not taking over or some other nonsense.

 

[T-Boon]

Bingo. Same goes for Brisbane and every other city in the country. Our game is best viewed from a lounge room on a 65" LED 4K TV.

To me this suggests something is wrong with the game.
A sport should always be a lot better at the ground/stadium.

 

[ReddFelon]

Are you and PR against having a team in Perth?

The West Coast Eagles are as big in Perth, if not bigger, than the All Blacks are in NZ. West Coast Pirates will also be competing against the Fremantle Dockers, who have a strong fanbase. I still think there's room for the Pirates to carve out a niche.

NZ2/3 wouldn't be competing with the All Blacks every week. The NRL is the largest and most prestigious club competition in either "rugby" code. People want to see the best, so give NZ a few seats at the table and watch the game grow. Our mission is aided somewhat by Euro RU picking the guts out of the NZRU.

A Perth team carving out 3rd/4th place among the Eagles, Dockers and Force is fine. Also, no the NRL is not the largest or most prestigious competition in club rugby. The Heineken Champions Cup is, with it's average salary being nearly double that of the NRL, as well as 24 teams and broadcast world wide.

In fact I'd go further on the prestige, the RFU Premiership, LNR Top 14, URC and NZ Super Rugby would all be considered far more prestigious, and in the case of the first two fare more financially powerful, in their respective markets.

Die hards need to stop pretending that the NRL carries any major presence outside Australia and the North of England. It's a great game, but it's also a small game and there's no shame in that. The shame is in the small minds that operate it.

But this is a stadium chat, I would love it if Perth getting a team meant upgrades to HBF Park so that both Force and NRL Perth get a top tier rectangular stadium.

Also it's clear you haven't lived in Perth or New Zealand, the Eagles might be massive, but they do not attract the cult like following that the All Blacks do. Half of Perth despise the Eagles, ergo Dockers and other club fans. Plus the Rugby, Soccer and Basketball crowds who tend to hate them as well.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

To me this suggests something is wrong with the game.
A sport should always be a lot better at the ground/stadium.

I hate going to the ground because it's full of drunks who walk up and down the aisle, obstructing my view of the game. Having to get up to let them pass by my seat every five minutes is a pain in the arse. I've seen idiots not turn up to their seat until 5 minutes before half time, with grog in both hands, then f**k off back to the bar at half time and never return to their seat. People who do that should be banned. If they just want to get stuck into the piss then they should go to a pub.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

You’ve changed your tune. You suggested the nrl Could in some way weaken union in nz By adding another club. They won’t, just like a perth nrl team won’t make one jot of difference to the wc eagles. Carving out a strong and sustainable second place is what the goal is, not taking over or some other nonsense.

Weakening the NZRU and taking over are two very different things. We can weaken RU in NZ by taking away their best junior talent before they get a chance to put on an All Blacks jersey. We've been doing this for 20 years by poaching quality RU juniors from NZ high schools. Adding another club will certainly help the NRL to convince more kids to choose RL over RU.

The last thing NZRU can afford is to have their best talent sign up to play for an NRL club. There's only so many superstars in each age group, so losing just one or two a year will weaken the All Blacks and moet likely bring them back with the rest of the pack. They lost to Ireland and France within a week last year. That sort of thing was unheard of in the past. If we're smart then we'll keep chipping away until their national team is good but no longer extraordinary. When they're just making up the numbers they will lose the aura that makes kids idolise them and dream of being an All Black.

All Blacks are facing the biggest challenge in their history. The RFU and FFR are loaded and have way more registered clubs. The SARU have thrown their lot in with Europe, making Super Rugby worthless to the broadcasters.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

A Perth team carving out 3rd/4th place among the Eagles, Dockers and Force is fine. Also, no the NRL is not the largest or most prestigious competition in club rugby. The Heineken Champions Cup is, with it's average salary being nearly double that of the NRL, as well as 24 teams and broadcast world wide.

In fact I'd go further on the prestige, the RFU Premiership, LNR Top 14, URC and NZ Super Rugby would all be considered far more prestigious, and in the case of the first two fare more financially powerful, in their respective markets.

Die hards need to stop pretending that the NRL carries any major presence outside Australia and the North of England. It's a great game, but it's also a small game and there's no shame in that. The shame is in the small minds that operate it.

But this is a stadium chat, I would love it if Perth getting a team meant upgrades to HBF Park so that both Force and NRL Perth get a top tier rectangular stadium.

Also it's clear you haven't lived in Perth or New Zealand, the Eagles might be massive, but they do not attract the cult like following that the All Blacks do. Half of Perth despise the Eagles, ergo Dockers and other club fans. Plus the Rugby, Soccer and Basketball crowds who tend to hate them as well.

How can the RFU Premiership be more prestigious than the NRL when its attendances are less than 15k and it gets flogged in the TV ratings by the English Super League?

Premiership Rugby - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

NRL draws higher TV ratings and attendances than the RFU Premiership. The RFU has a similar salary cap to the NRL at £5m which is $9.4m Australian, but it covers three less teams until 2023, when we'll have four more than them.

The French League doesn't draw high attendances and TV ratings like the NRL.

Go tell people in Papua New Guinea how much more prestigious the English and French ruggers competitions are than the NRL and they'll laugh at you. The most watched sports league in PNG is NRL. RL is a religion in PNG. Its population is twice as large as NZ.

Crowds for Super Rugby NZ aren't great. There's no Super Rugby NZ team that's as big and powerful as the Broncos.

Can you name one rugby club that averages more than 30k to their home games?

I had a look at the Heineken Champions Cup. Its average attendances are lower than the RFU Premiership. Major matches like the grand final can get massive crowds, but so does the NRL GF, English Super League GF and Challenge Cup Final.

European Rugby Champions Cup - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Do you have any evidence that the Heineken Champions Cup has a salary cap of more than $18m?