Game of Thrones VIII

[BennyV]

The issue isn't one of time.
The writers deliberately sacrifice common sense and plausibility purely to shock the audience. It's cheap and lazy and usually not even quicker.

Rhaegal example.
Dany's navy, after being ambushed 2 times previously, is aware of a potential attack, because they aren't complete morons.
Euron's fleet is hiding behind an island or headland or whatever.
It allows them to get the jump, but Dany spots them from the air before they get a cheap shot away, because air visibility is obviously f**king superior to sea level visibility.
A short naval battle ensues. Much the same result, the upgraded weaponry tears them to pieces.
All our favourite characters abandon ship. They don't show a 400kg mast falling on a swimming Tyrion with a fade to black, because baiting the audience with death scenarios that have zero consequences is cheap and dumb.
Dany is forced to attack the well armed ships to allow her friends and remaining troops to escape.
Rhaegal gets shot down in the attack. Dany flees on Drogon while Missande is picked up by Euron.

A better outcome, yes, and no doubt there are many others. But my initial post was that regardless of this, the fact that they are cramming the 2 major climaxes of the entire series into a single 6-episode season is not going to be successful or particularly satisfying no matter how good the writing is. Hence why GRRM desired 5 extra.

For mine, both the NK and the battle for the throne deserved the equivalent of a full season in build up and execution. The rush to finish it all, while not the only problem, is a huge part of what’s wrong with this season.

 

[adamkungl]

Thought of the day...

I've seen people defending Dany, and calling Varys and Tyrion hypocrites over their fear her razing KL and slaughtering its citizens just to claim the throne.

How weird is it that most of the audience's primary concern in the debate is hypocrisy and winning a pissing contest,
rather than the question of whether Dany putting KL up in flames and killing a city full of innocents is the morally right thing to do. This is a dark show, yes, but Dany claims to have the plight of the smallfolk as her core motive, and Dany claims to be a more just ruler than the tyrants that came before her.

Disturbingly reflective of our own politics. At its best these are the kinds of questions this show can ask.

Dany's arc will come to a climax, probably next week. She will have to answer the question of just depths she is willing to go to claim the throne. I suspect one way leads to sacrifice, and one way leads to tyranny. It doesn't matter as much what the answer is, there is good justification for a lot of outcomes here, but for the next 2 eps to be worth anything at all, the question must be asked and answered.

Does she want the throne as a tool to help the common people, or does she help the common people as a tool to claim the throne?
Every one of her 'good guy' actions, such as freeing the slaves and going north to fight the dead, conveniently comes with great personal gain.
Every one of her 'good guy' actions comes with an undercurrent of arguably unnecessary cruelty, justified by the greater good.
Almost every tyrant has people on his side at some point...

 

[Tommy Smith]

Daenerys 'Erdoğan' Targaryen.

 

[Springs09]

Thought of the day...

I've seen people defending Dany, and calling Varys and Tyrion hypocrites over their fear her razing KL and slaughtering its citizens just to claim the throne.

How weird is it that most of the audience's primary concern in the debate is hypocrisy and winning a pissing contest,
rather than the question of whether Dany putting KL up in flames and killing a city full of innocents is the morally right thing to do. This is a dark show, yes, but Dany claims to have the plight of the smallfolk as her core motive, and Dany claims to be a more just ruler than the tyrants that came before her.

Disturbingly reflective of our own politics. At its best these are the kinds of questions this show can ask.

Dany's arc will come to a climax, probably next week. She will have to answer the question of just depths she is willing to go to claim the throne. I suspect one way leads to sacrifice, and one way leads to tyranny. It doesn't matter as much what the answer is, there is good justification for a lot of outcomes here, but for the next 2 eps to be worth anything at all, the question must be asked and answered.

Does she want the throne as a tool to help the common people, or does she help the common people as a tool to claim the throne?
Every one of her 'good guy' actions, such as freeing the slaves and going north to fight the dead, conveniently comes with great personal gain.
Every one of her 'good guy' actions comes with an undercurrent of arguably unnecessary cruelty, justified by the greater good.
Almost every tyrant has people on his side at some point...

A large portion of the Breaking Bad fanbase were still on Walt's side up until the very end and hated every character that went against him despite him being a clear villain by the final season.

Daenerys has been nuts from the start. Though it hasn't helped with how unsubtle and bratty she's been portrayed.

 

[Timbo]

I'm not trying to pretend I could do a better job or anything, just don't take the piss out of the audience for cheap twists ffs

I was being very genuine. Yours is much better.

 

[Game_Breaker]

A large portion of the Breaking Bad fanbase were still on Walt's side up until the very end and hated every character that went against him despite him being a clear villain by the final season.

Daenerys has been nuts from the start. Though it hasn't helped with how unsubtle and bratty she's been portrayed.

I was going to post that there are parallels with breaking bad

Walters transformation was written better

Not everyone is born evil, and Danys arc is showing the path to evil

 

[Mr Spock!]

A large portion of the Breaking Bad fanbase were still on Walt's side up until the very end and hated every character that went against him despite him being a clear villain by the final season.

Daenerys has been nuts from the start. Though it hasn't helped with how unsubtle and bratty she's been portrayed.

Yeah, wtf was that about.

He was a prick who got his brotherinlaw killed. And Skylar wasn't much better.

And just goes to show crime pays.

 

[Timbo]

Question -

If these two final episodes are, as it’s starting to look, not great and George R R Martin dies before completing the books, what will the legacy of this franchise be?

 

[Jack Deth]

Really disappointed with some of the plots and the pacing of these last few seasons. Added to that this rush to now end the show is very annoying.

On the subject of how it will end...Jaime to kill Dany after she attempts to burn KL like her father.

Arya to kill Cersei using the faceless man trick.

Jon never wants to be anything other than a normal person..so will turn down being King but will ride off in to the sunset on Drogon.

That leaves my favourite for the throne....Gendry. He has part Baratheon blood as well as Targaryen blood in him.

 

[Game_Breaker]

Apparently the next episode is huge

 

[BennyV]

Really disappointed with some of the plots and the pacing of these last few seasons. Added to that this rush to now end the show is very annoying.

On the subject of how it will end...Jaime to kill Dany after she attempts to burn KL like her father.

Arya to kill Cersei using the faceless man trick.

Jon never wants to be anything other than a normal person..so will turn down being King but will ride off in to the sunset on Drogon.

That leaves my favourite for the throne....Gendry. He has part Baratheon blood as well as Targaryen blood in him.

Gendry has Targaryen blood? Since when?

 

[Jack Deth]

Gendry has Targaryen blood? Since when?

Since along time. Roberts grandmother was one I believe. So that means Gendry has both blood in him.

I thought it was strange that Gendry who only makes brief appearances throughout the first seven series suddenly reappears in season eight.

Not only that he survives the battle of Winterfell. He then has sex with Arya..baby? Finally remember season one? when Robert says to Ned ''i have a son you have a daughter lets marry them''

 

[greenBV4]

If these two final episodes are, as it’s starting to look, not great and George R R Martin dies before completing the books, what will the legacy of this franchise be?

Apparently, GRRM has someone lined up to finish his books in case of this, he knows he is old, probably not that healthy, and writes incredibly slow

 

[Game_Breaker]

Since along time. Roberts grandmother was one I believe. So that means Gendry has both blood in him.

Yeah
Also House Baratheon is closest to house Targaryen since it’s founder was the bastard brother of Aegon

 

[greenBV4]

Yeah
Also House Baratheon is closest to house Targaryen since it’s founder was the bastard brother of Aegon

It's one of the reasons it was Robert who took the throne
With all the other Targaryens dead or exiled, rebellion or not he was actually next in line to claim it

Even though he is an extremely slow writer because of it, GRRM has done a great job at not only telling a story, but literally creating a whole world with a detailed history
It's a shame HBO felt the need to dumb everything down from the get-go so that the "casual watcher" could follow it

 

[hineyrulz]

Sansa will win the game of thrones IMO, she is the best player left after she killed off the best player left in Littlefinger.

Of course After Cersei gets finished off.

 

[PJ]

Apparently, GRRM has someone lined up to finish his books in case of this, he knows he is old, probably not that healthy, and writes incredibly slow

Robert Jordan did that with Sanderson taking over and following the outline.

For mine it improved that series.

 

[Timbo]

Apparently, GRRM has someone lined up to finish his books in case of this, he knows he is old, probably not that healthy, and writes incredibly slow

The TV writers also took notes off him when they passed the books, and look how that’s gone.

I dunno. We might look back in 20 years on this franchise as the greatest pop culture disappointment of all time.

 

[greenBV4]

The TV writers also took notes off him when they passed the books, and look how that’s gone.

Yeah but the show butchered certain storylines and characters from the get-go, and even completely ignored some others

I'm still convinced the Show and Books are almost completely different stories, and will definitely end differently

too many characters are alive or dead in one but not the other, and too many seemingly important characters just outright don't exist in the show

one is a "game of thrones", and the other "a song of ice and fire"

 

[adamkungl]

Pretty sure GRRM said something like he'd burn all his notes rather than have someone else finish...

In defence of GRRM though, he is 70, not 90.
TWOW *should* be out sooner rather than later. It's approaching 8 years and has to come out eventually.
Even if the finale takes just as long it still puts him at around 80.