General Discussion Thread

[betcats]

The other issue is their disrupted pre-season. This is a team that has never played before and they will have less time due to players at the WC. Not ideal at all.

Regardless its a test for Bennett. He isn't coaching anything close to a stacked squad. Anything outside the bottom 4 is a massive achievement.

Agree, huge test. If he can get that team within spitting distance of the 8 it will be a huge feather in his cap but I cant see it. Even the best thing about their current team(the starting pack) isnt better than decent, besides Gilbert all their likely forward starters will be over 30. They really need some miracle like development from some of the younger/depth players they have signed to get out of the bottom 4 I think. Injuries are going to happen if they have a bad run of injuries it could get really ugly.

 

[Sime_11]

Bennett will have them competitive - bottom 4 seems likely but I dont think they get the spoon

that said - any team who finishes below the dolphins in 2023 are in a crisis - no excuses for those bottom teams this year

 

[Fangs]

Tigers, Warriors, Manly, Dogs all have no coaches and key players across in the WC though so hard to see those guys improving. At that level attitude gets you across the line

Everyone will have a shortened pre-season. But it will hurt the Dolphins the most as they have never played together.

Its going to have to be all attitude. And maybe some lucky mid-season transfers when clubs like Manly start the year poorly.

 

[Iamback]

Decent starting pack yes but terrible bench and bad forwards depth, average at best spine(jmk,sos,milf and hammer is a bottom four spine imo), below average outside backs backed up again by terrible depth. Add in the fact its a brand new team playing together with all defensive and offensive combinations yet to be worked out and they are in for a tough season. Hammer is going to be out for a couple months at least so that is already 1 injury they are dealing with.

I think Katoa will be in the halves over Milford, but lets look at SOS and JMK as opposed to the other dud teams

SOS played 11 games. 14 try assists. 2 tries ave 347 kick metres

Adam Clune 18 games, 14 try assists. 2 tries ave 131 kick metres

Tom Sexton 19 games, 13 try assists. 2 Tries ave 343 kick metres

Shaun Johnson 21 games, 14 try Assists. 3 tries ave 331 kick metres

Luke Brooks 17 games, 12 try Assists 2 tries ave 245 kick metres
,
Now for hookers

JMK 90% tackle effective, 5 tries, 4 try assist. 55 run metres a game, 9 linebreaks, 2 forced drop outs

Egan 89% tackle effective, 4 tries, 4 try assists. 39 run metres a game, 4 linebreaks, 1 forced drop out

Api we know how good he is

GC don't have a settled 9

Brailey 88% tackle effective, Only played 8 games so I will combine both hookers - 2 tries, 4 try assists. 2 line breaks. 42 run metres and 35 run metres a game. 0 forced line drop out

So generally they stack up with the 4 ordinary teams in spine but the pack is stacked and have better coaching then all of them

 

[mxlegend99]

The coach who got Roberts to Origin level was Bennett

Hammer was fullback got injured and they went on a run, You can't carry backs on the bench and give them enough minutes.

Brenko got injured then they won 8 in a row or something. Sitting 4th you aren't going to make changes

The pack is certainly the strength, They have some young guys waiting. So it looks like they picked a squad to be competitive until they are ready.

Bennett coached teams are good in defence, have a decent kicking game. Can put on a set move or 2.

In a team that contained Burton, Jeremy Marshall-King got player of the year for the Dogs. So there is enough to atleast jump a few teams

Bennett is not that great of a coach. He has never had a side full of average players.

In 2014 he took Knights to 12th with a hell of a lot better roster than he has at Dolphins. This is by far the worst roster he has ever had and there's no depth for him to work with either.

Good in defence? Souths had 50 put on them a couple of times last season as coach.

Each to his own. But IMO Dolphins have by far the worst roster in the competition and I just don't see Bennett as being able to do much with such a poor side.

Even though their best part of the roster is their pack. Their best forwards were declining slightly in 2022. They also don't have a workhorse metre eater.

Both Bromwich brothers average less than 100 metres per game for Storm in 2021. Likewise with Kaufusi. Mark Nichols averages 101m per game. Gilbert averages 103m per game. Just blokes pumping out solid numbers in great teams.

Their dog shot illegal tackles won't fly at Dolphins either. They will be punished for them unlike when playing for Storm.

In less than 12 months we will know for certain. But honestly if Bennett got them to 10th to 12th i would be genuinely surprised. Even the clubs that are a mess have redeeming qualities

Ie. Tigers have Api, Hastings, Doeuhi
Manly have Turbo, Jurbo, DCE
Knights basically just suck. Though Ponga, Young, Best and Gagai is still a much better backline than Dolphins.


But as i said each to his own. Time will tell. We rate the rosters and Bennetts ability to work with average rosters and depth differently.

 

[Iamback]

Everyone will have a shortened pre-season. But it will hurt the Dolphins the most as they have never played together.

Its going to have to be all attitude. And maybe some lucky mid-season transfers when clubs like Manly start the year poorly.

Bennett's style doesn't need them to be together, I am not expecting much attack when Dragons won the comp in 2010 they only scored 21 points a game.

As for players, They have 24 locked in so plenty of room to take the Manly or Dragons guys that will jump ship. Get some speed from there and the backline looks different

 

[Iamback]

Bennett will have them competitive - bottom 4 seems likely but I dont think they get the spoon

that said - any team who finishes below the dolphins in 2023 are in a crisis - no excuses for those bottom teams this year

I know this discussion is on Dolphins but it brings up a point, Who in last years bottom 4 has improved? Teams like Manly and Dragons have gone backwards

 

[Iamback]

Bennett is not that great of a coach. He has never had a side full of average players.

In 2014 he took Knights to 12th with a hell of a lot better roster than he has at Dolphins. This is by far the worst roster he has ever had and there's no depth for him to work with either.

Good in defence? Souths had 50 put on them a couple of times last season as coach.

Each to his own. But IMO Dolphins have by far the worst roster in the competition and I just don't see Bennett as being able to do much with such a poor side.

Even though their best part of the roster is their pack. Their best forwards were declining slightly in 2022. They also don't have a workhorse metre eater.

Both Bromwich brothers average less than 100 metres per game for Storm in 2021. Likewise with Kaufusi. Mark Nichols averages 101m per game. Gilbert averages 103m per game. Just blokes pumping out solid numbers in great teams.

Their dog shot illegal tackles won't fly at Dolphins either. They will be punished for them unlike when playing for Storm.

In less than 12 months we will know for certain. But honestly if Bennett got them to 10th to 12th i would be genuinely surprised. Even the clubs that are a mess have redeeming qualities

Ie. Tigers have Api, Hastings, Doeuhi
Manly have Turbo, Jurbo, DCE
Knights basically just suck. Though Ponga, Young, Best and Gagai is still a much better backline than Dolphins.


But as i said each to his own. Time will tell. We rate the rosters and Bennetts ability to work with average rosters and depth differently.

Those Tigers guys you mentioned, 2 will be over at WC so won't train. Coming back to play under a coach who was past it in 2012

Manly also have Seibold and some very ordinary players behind those 3. Schuster isn't a 5/8th

You left GC and Dragons off there too,
There are atleast 6 teams that would get the spoon most years so that is more my thinking not that The Dolphins will be great but average team as opposed to the 6 ordinary teams

 

[betcats]

I think Katoa will be in the halves over Milford, but lets look at SOS and JMK as opposed to the other dud teams

SOS played 11 games. 14 try assists. 2 tries ave 347 kick metres

Adam Clune 18 games, 14 try assists. 2 tries ave 131 kick metres

Tom Sexton 19 games, 13 try assists. 2 Tries ave 343 kick metres

Shaun Johnson 21 games, 14 try Assists. 3 tries ave 331 kick metres

Luke Brooks 17 games, 12 try Assists 2 tries ave 245 kick metres
,
Now for hookers

JMK 90% tackle effective, 5 tries, 4 try assist. 55 run metres a game, 9 linebreaks, 2 forced drop outs

Egan 89% tackle effective, 4 tries, 4 try assists. 39 run metres a game, 4 linebreaks, 1 forced drop out

Api we know how good he is

GC don't have a settled 9

Brailey 88% tackle effective, Only played 8 games so I will combine both hookers - 2 tries, 4 try assists. 2 line breaks. 42 run metres and 35 run metres a game. 0 forced line drop out

So generally they stack up with the 4 ordinary teams in spine but the pack is stacked and have better coaching then all of them

GC 9 will be Verrils, honestly at this stage the only spine i probably wouldnt take over the dolphins likely spine is the warriors and I would stop a long way short of calling their pack stacked, Its just decent and the bench is not good, the backs are not good. The depth is not good. Basically they can be compared to current bottom four sides from this year but they likely have worse depth and need to figure everything out as a brand new team.

 

[Munky]

Bennett's style doesn't need them to be together, I am not expecting much attack when Dragons won the comp in 2010 they only scored 21 points a game.

As for players, They have 24 locked in so plenty of room to take the Manly or Dragons guys that will jump ship. Get some speed from there and the backline looks different

2009 and 2010 Bennett had Soward and Hornby in the halves. Hornby started for Australia at halfback while Soward in his good years (09, 10 and 14) is the best game manager since Sticky retired. The 2009 and 2010 teams were stacked.

Backline had prime Boyd, B Morris, Cooper, Gasnier and Nightingale. The forwards had Weyman, B Scott, J Smith, Prior, Creagh and Merrin. Scott and J Smith were tough mofos.

Looking back, they had an incredible side on paper with players at their peak.

To compare the Dolphins squad to the 2010 Dragons is a massive stretch. SOS is very wayward in his kicking with a grand canyon gap between his best and worst kick. Milf is more washed than a teenager's sock. Dad's army up front. There is a chance they may surprise but if I had a Sportsbet account I'd bet against it.

 

[Iamback]

GC 9 will be Verrils, honestly at this stage the only spine i probably wouldnt take over the dolphins likely spine is the warriors and I would stop a long way short of calling their pack stacked, Its just decent and the bench is not good, the backs are not good. The depth is not good. Basically they can be compared to current bottom four sides from this year but they likely have worse depth and need to figure everything out as a brand new team.

The squad isn't complete yet though, 24 players so of course depth would look bad.

 

[Iamback]

2009 and 2010 Bennett had Soward and Hornby in the halves. Hornby started for Australia at halfback while Soward in his good years (09, 10 and 14) is the best game manager since Sticky retired. The 2009 and 2010 teams were stacked.

Backline had prime Boyd, B Morris, Cooper, Gasnier and Nightingale. The forwards had Weyman, B Scott, J Smith, Prior, Creagh and Merrin. Scott and J Smith were tough mofos.

Looking back, they had an incredible side on paper with players at their peak.

To compare the Dolphins squad to the 2010 Dragons is a massive stretch. SOS is very wayward in his kicking with a grand canyon gap between his best and worst kick. Milf is more washed than a teenager's sock. Dad's army up front. There is a chance they may surprise but if I had a Sportsbet account I'd bet against it.

How many times did Beau Scott play in the centres under Bennett either at Dragons or at Newcastle? I compare this side more to the Knights side of 2013 which Bennett got into the finals. Had old guys like Mason and Gower but had the young guys coming through too

I don't see Milford playing much because he is garbage but guys like Valynce Te Whare, Katoa and a few other fringe guys look very good

 

[betcats]

The squad isn't complete yet though, 24 players so of course depth would look bad.

Well I can only have an opinion on what they have. If or when they bring in more players for next year I might adjust my opinion but as it stands with what they have they look set to struggle a lot imo.

 

[ACTPanthers]

Milf is more washed than a teenager's sock.

 

[Iamback]

Well I can only have an opinion on what they have. If or when they bring in more players for next year I might adjust my opinion but as it stands with what they have they look set to struggle a lot imo.

My thinking is more due to the other teams being basketcases, They had a great year in QCup and the u21's under that. Along with signing some great kids from elsewhere that should see them above the mentioned basketcases

 

[betcats]

My thinking is more due to the other teams being basketcases, They had a great year in QCup and the u21's under that. Along with signing some great kids from elsewhere that should see them above the mentioned basketcases

Yeah but i think some clubs being cases is balanced out by the dolphins needing to figure everything out with the team being together for the first time. Even the basket case clubs have 17s that are mostly established with maybe a few positions up for grabs. The Dolphins have maybe 5 or 6 guys that pick themselves and the rest of the 17 needs to be worked out in preseason. Brand new defensive combinations across the park. A strong likelihood that the preferred centres, bench, halves pairing and possibly fullback will change throughout the year. They just have so much figure out and not a lot of time to do it and a squad without a real star at all, in the spine and outside backs the most established player last year was JMK, the rest were changing positions or clubs or in and out of first grade. Some good forwards but most of their starting pack past 30, if Gilbert is to start it will mean a positional change as he has played mostly on an edge. Its a lot for even Bennett to overcome and have them as a side that is better than 3 or 4 others.

 

[Iamback]

Yeah but i think some clubs being cases is balanced out by the dolphins needing to figure everything out with the team being together for the first time. Even the basket case clubs have 17s that are mostly established with maybe a few positions up for grabs. The Dolphins have maybe 5 or 6 guys that pick themselves and the rest of the 17 needs to be worked out in preseason. Brand new defensive combinations across the park. A strong likelihood that the preferred centres, bench, halves pairing and possibly fullback will change throughout the year. They just have so much figure out and not a lot of time to do it and a squad without a real star at all, in the spine and outside backs the most established player last year was JMK, the rest were changing positions or clubs or in and out of first grade. Some good forwards but most of their starting pack past 30, if Gilbert is to start it will mean a positional change as he has played mostly on an edge. Its a lot for even Bennett to overcome and have them as a side that is better than 3 or 4 others.

As a team you are correct but there is enough familar faces to make it not so bad, I mentioned the Lee's have played under Bennett before, Throw Isakko, Nicholls, Wallace into that group
SOS and Atkins played at Warriors, Katoa is at the world cup playing under an assistant coach at Dolphins alongside another player in Kausfusi
Bromwich's are off with JMK so they won't be total strangers when they start

The Warriors are probably the best placed of the basketcase sides due to having minimal guys at the World Cup still have a new coach but very few recruits

Tigers have Doeuhi and Api over the WC, along with a coach that is way out of touch

Knights think Brooks is the answer to their problems...Enough said

Manly and Dragons have huge issues and have their captains away until next year

So I just don't see enough change from those sides to get out of their problems

 

[ColdWetPanther]

2009 and 2010 Bennett had Soward and Hornby in the halves. Hornby started for Australia at halfback while Soward in his good years (09, 10 and 14) is the best game manager since Sticky retired. The 2009 and 2010 teams were stacked.

Backline had prime Boyd, B Morris, Cooper, Gasnier and Nightingale. The forwards had Weyman, B Scott, J Smith, Prior, Creagh and Merrin. Scott and J Smith were tough mofos.

Looking back, they had an incredible side on paper with players at their peak.

To compare the Dolphins squad to the 2010 Dragons is a massive stretch. SOS is very wayward in his kicking with a grand canyon gap between his best and worst kick. Milf is more washed than a teenager's sock. Dad's army up front. There is a chance they may surprise but if I had a Sportsbet account I'd bet against it.

The pack might have been good in 2019, but the game has changed and forwards need to have some speed. The back row will be alright but not elite, but Nichols and Bromwich are slow and their lateral movement is not the best. I see other teams going straight up the middle.

 

[ColdWetPanther]

As a team you are correct but there is enough familar faces to make it not so bad, I mentioned the Lee's have played under Bennett before, Throw Isakko, Nicholls, Wallace into that group
SOS and Atkins played at Warriors, Katoa is at the world cup playing under an assistant coach at Dolphins alongside another player in Kausfusi
Bromwich's are off with JMK so they won't be total strangers when they start

The Warriors are probably the best placed of the basketcase sides due to having minimal guys at the World Cup still have a new coach but very few recruits

Tigers have Doeuhi and Api over the WC, along with a coach that is way out of touch

Knights think Brooks is the answer to their problems...Enough said

Manly and Dragons have huge issues and have their captains away until next year

So I just don't see enough change from those sides to get out of their problems

You keep saying that the bottom four teams are bad (they are) but if those same bottom 4 teams were building a team from scratch, they couldn’t do worse than what the Dolphins have. With the exception of Gilbert, there isn’t one player in the upswing of their career and few would even be considered in their prime.

 

[Iamback]

You keep saying that the bottom four teams are bad (they are) but if those same bottom 4 teams were building a team from scratch, they couldn’t do worse than what the Dolphins have. With the exception of Gilbert, there isn’t one player in the upswing of their career and few would even be considered in their prime.

Jeremy Marshall-King? Got Bulldogs player of the year in a team that included Burton.

My issue with those bottom 4 teams are no cap space and lower grades non existent. Manly new coach ( with no cap space), Newcastle and Dragons likely punt their coach no cap space.

The flow on is they in most cases pay players to leave and lose a se

Take the Knights their plan if you believe reports is play Ponga 6 with Luke Brooks 7.
Brooks is on $1.1m according to reports, Pongia even more

Are they really the sort of halves pairing to put 1/4 of the cap on?

Dolphins have Bennett for 2 years into an Assistant coach with cap space for mid season recruits or guys from their successful lower grade sides. To finish the year stronger then other clubs