General Discussion Thread

[MugaB]

They will have the slowest pack in the comp and little flair out the back.

Unless they get plenty of help from the refs and Bennett can get them up every week so they can turn every game into a SOO-like slug fest, they aren’t going to win more than a handful of games.

Thats an over exaggeration, slowest is tigers or dragons by far, just coz the new team on the block had been beaten up on the media, before a ball has even been kicked ... dont eat up the hype

 

[MugaB]

Mature is a wonderful word for it.

Well they are... just turn in to massive smugs after they win is all... better then than halfway thru a game like cody or latrell, then lose it

 

[ColdWetPanther]

Thats an over exaggeration, slowest is tigers or dragons by far, just coz the new team on the block had been beaten up on the media, before a ball has even been kicked ... dont eat up the hype

I like Tom G as a signing but the rest are classic Tigers over the past 10 years. I actually think the Tigers pack looks like it is improving heaps, but agree the Saints is pus.

Being in the UK, I don’t read much press but what I do see is on here and through watching NRL360 quite regularly. The narrative I see is that Bennett will have them competitive but needs a marquee to really challenge. I think they will compete in a few games but fade and fade badly by years end.

 

[ColdWetPanther]

Well they are... just turn in to massive smugs after they win is all... better then than halfway thru a game like cody or latrell, then lose it

 

[Pomoz]

Among others.

Well said Jane, but I am not arguing everything is down to Ivan or everything is due to Gus. These two were singled out for criticism, or damned by faint praise at least.

There have been many contributors to where we are now and they all deserve praise. But to me, the three people that deserve the most praise are Don Feltis, Gus and Ivan.

Don was a humble enough leader to admit they had made mistakes and needed help. It takes a truly great leader to do that. Many leaders just can't put their ego to one side. Don put the club first and copped the inevitable brickbats that come his way as Gus unwrapped the onion that was the Panther's football department.

Gus's vision and understanding of what needs to be done to be a development club laid the path. Somebody still has to do the work to walk the path and make that vision reality. That's where Ivan comes in. He had the leadership skills to make it happen, despite Gus losing faith for a while and sending him for a brief interlude at the Tigers.

I think the spell at the Tigers and exposure to another club's culture was a massive learning experience for Ivan. I think that period sharpened his skills so that when he came back to the Panthers he knew what to do.

The whole rise, fall and rise of the Panthers would make an interesting case study or book on leadership, coaching and the ego driven world of professional sports.

 

[Pomoz]

For me the great thing about Ivan is the culture he has created. I think there have been more talented rugby league sides I have seen play, but none that play so connected so consistently (not just during the game, but week to week).

To win as often as they do requires them to turn up ready to play every week; that is on the coaching and the culture created.

It is interesting to note, that if we are honest, there isn't a single superstar in our team. Nobody like Trell, Teddy or Turbo who win matches single handedly. No players who feature in the highlight reels for performing some miracle play where they beat five players swerve around the fullback, step the cover defence, chip over the lock and swoop on the ball one handed whilst doing the 100m in 10.5 seconds. We don't do that. Nathan Cleary isn't that person. Sure, he makes a team perform so much better because he manages and guides the team around the field, but he ain't doing Turbo or Teddy magic. To'o isn't that person. He won't even score as many tries as Johnson, he doesn't have the speed and balance. Kikau isn't that person. A blunt instrument who sometimes looks unstoppable but rarely is.

When you listen or read pre match analysis they always talk about stars like Manu, Moses, Brown, Suallii or Walker. Players that provide "magic" moments. They said the Panthers had better watch out for South's because "Trell" was gunning for them. We have nobody who can do what Trell does, but it didn't matter because the team functions as a team at such a high level Trell doesn't get to go to his bag of tricks. He gets swamped by brilliant team defence. He is stifled by players with much lesser ability, but with more purpose and fitness. Turbo cops the same treatment when we play Manly. His genius is smothered by the sheer will and purpose of the Panther's defence, staffed by players with a fraction of Turbo's ability.

There is no Panther player waiting for a teammate to pull out a mega play. They focus on doing the 1 percenters. The next hit up, the next decoy run, the next gang tackle. What we do is the antithesis of "a team of superstars". We are a "superstar team". Our genius is the team's cohesion and purpose and we pick players that want to be part of that.

It would be interesting to see what would happen if the club unearthed a genuine superstar like Turbo. Would it unbalance the team?

 

[age.s]

If tries saved were heralded in the same way tries scored were then Edwards would be every bit as hyped as Latrell or Turbo.

 

[panther.mike]

How many tries did we score this year and how many of ours were disallowed?

 

[MugaB]

How many tries did we score this year and how many of ours were disallowed?

Id say about 1/4 more would have been disallowed, there was a fair bit in that parra 1st week final 3 i think, nearly every game had 1-2 at the start, then we trek on and blowout the defence in the 2nd halves

 

[BossleyPanther]

I think it is fair to say that Ivan is an Elite coach. 4 Grand Finals 2 Premiers 2, minor Premiers. Many said 3 years ago that we wouldn't win anything under him and I was 1 who wasn't convinced on him returning back for his 2nd stint.

 

[hindy111]

It is interesting to note, that if we are honest, there isn't a single superstar in our team. Nobody like Trell, Teddy or Turbo who win matches single handedly. No players who feature in the highlight reels for performing some miracle play where they beat five players swerve around the fullback, step the cover defence, chip over the lock and swoop on the ball one handed whilst doing the 100m in 10.5 seconds. We don't do that. Nathan Cleary isn't that person. Sure, he makes a team perform so much better because he manages and guides the team around the field, but he ain't doing Turbo or Teddy magic. To'o isn't that person. He won't even score as many tries as Johnson, he doesn't have the speed and balance. Kikau isn't that person. A blunt instrument who sometimes looks unstoppable but rarely is.

When you listen or read pre match analysis they always talk about stars like Manu, Moses, Brown, Suallii or Walker. Players that provide "magic" moments. They said the Panthers had better watch out for South's because "Trell" was gunning for them. We have nobody who can do what Trell does, but it didn't matter because the team functions as a team at such a high level Trell doesn't get to go to his bag of tricks. He gets swamped by brilliant team defence. He is stifled by players with much lesser ability, but with more purpose and fitness. Turbo cops the same treatment when we play Manly. His genius is smothered by the sheer will and purpose of the Panther's defence, staffed by players with a fraction of Turbo's ability.

There is no Panther player waiting for a teammate to pull out a mega play. They focus on doing the 1 percenters. The next hit up, the next decoy run, the next gang tackle. What we do is the antithesis of "a team of superstars". We are a "superstar team". Our genius is the team's cohesion and purpose and we pick players that want to be part of that.

It would be interesting to see what would happen if the club unearthed a genuine superstar like Turbo. Would it unbalance the team?

Disagree. Best players I've seen are Lockyer,Thurston,Cam Smith,Johns. The only current player who is in their mould?
Nathan Cleary. He is a genuine superstar. Maybe your mixing superstar with flashy. Nathan the best player in the game. He is a God dam superstar ffs

 

[jane the pain]

Disagree. Best players I've seen are Lockyer,Thurston,Cam Smith,Johns. The only current player who is in their mould?
Nathan Cleary. He is a genuine superstar. Maybe your mixing superstar with flashy. Nathan the best player in the game. He is a God dam superstar ffs

Thanks for accepting my apology

 

[hindy111]

Thanks for accepting my apology

It's fine. It was a genuine nice thing of you to go out of way to apologise to me.

 

[jane the pain]

It's fine. It was a genuine nice thing of you to go out of way to apologise to me.

Well I was in the wrong. Due to my declining mental health issue, I didn't apologise earlier.

 

[Pomoz]

Disagree. Best players I've seen are Lockyer,Thurston,Cam Smith,Johns. The only current player who is in their mould?
Nathan Cleary. He is a genuine superstar. Maybe your mixing superstar with flashy. Nathan the best player in the game. He is a God dam superstar ffs

Besides Smith, the players you list have highlight reels. Bursts of acceleration, swerves, sprinting through gaps, throwing huge cutout passes and winning games single handedly. That is just not Nathan. Sure he sometimes hits a gap, sometimes swerves, sometimes throws a cutout pass but he is nowhere near as good at those things as the players you mention. Nor as good at those things as Cody Walker or Luke Keary or many other players. He is Slower than most of the players you mention bar Smith. Walker can comfortably run down Cleary, he can spot space and overlaps much easier. There are very few length of the field tries from the Panthers, he doesn't do numbers like Walker, can't swerve like Lockyer or duck and weave like Thurston, he can't sprint like Moses.

Of those you listed, Cam Smith is the closest to Nathan. Cam doesn't have a highlight reel, just an ability to influence games with such skill the team is 25% worse when he isn't in the team. I'm not saying that Nathan is as influential as Smith, but he is similar in style and impact. Nathan doesn't play and the team just doesn't function as well. He sets the tempo, controls the play, directs the team around the field.

The other team doesn't worry about Nathan doing a Turbo or a Trell break. Firstly he is slow and easy to run down secondly that is not his superpower. BUT, they do worry that if they give him space and time he will move the play around the field and grind you into the floor. You will find yourself relentlessly working the ball out of your ten metre zone. Your best ball returner never getting the ball. Your goal line defence moved from one side to the other until you just can't breathe. If your winger is having a bad hands day, start praying because it's about to rain Steedens. These aren't highlights or "flashy" as you put it, but it is so bloody effective.

So is he a Superstar? I guess it's all about perspective. I see superstars as the players who can create something from nothing and win the game single handedly. But that isn't Nathan and its one of the reasons he gets flak over SOO. Blues fans want to see heroics like Johns before they will praise him. Nathan is more like the Borg, relentless and "Resistance is futile, you will yield to the Panther's collective".

 

[hindy111]

Besides Smith, the players you list have highlight reels. Bursts of acceleration, swerves, sprinting through gaps, throwing huge cutout passes and winning games single handedly. That is just not Nathan. Sure he sometimes hits a gap, sometimes swerves, sometimes throws a cutout pass but he is nowhere near as good at those things as the players you mention. Nor as good at those things as Cody Walker or Luke Keary or many other players. He is Slower than most of the players you mention bar Smith. Walker can comfortably run down Cleary, he can spot space and overlaps much easier. There are very few length of the field tries from the Panthers, he doesn't do numbers like Walker, can't swerve like Lockyer or duck and weave like Thurston, he can't sprint like Moses.

Of those you listed, Cam Smith is the closest to Nathan. Cam doesn't have a highlight reel, just an ability to influence games with such skill the team is 25% worse when he isn't in the team. I'm not saying that Nathan is as influential as Smith, but he is similar in style and impact. Nathan doesn't play and the team just doesn't function as well. He sets the tempo, controls the play, directs the team around the field.

The other team doesn't worry about Nathan doing a Turbo or a Trell break. Firstly he is slow and easy to run down secondly that is not his superpower. BUT, they do worry that if they give him space and time he will move the play around the field and grind you into the floor. You will find yourself relentlessly working the ball out of your ten metre zone. Your best ball returner never getting the ball. Your goal line defence moved from one side to the other until you just can't breathe. If your winger is having a bad hands day, start praying because it's about to rain Steedens. These aren't highlights or "flashy" as you put it, but it is so bloody effective.

So is he a Superstar? I guess it's all about perspective. I see superstars as the players who can create something from nothing and win the game single handedly. But that isn't Nathan and its one of the reasons he gets flak over SOO. Blues fans want to see heroics like Johns before they will praise him. Nathan is more like the Borg, relentless and "Resistance is futile, you will yield to the Panther's collective".

Genuine superstar. Kicks goals from everywhere. Field goals. Cool under pressure. His bombs.
How isn't pinning the opposition inside their 10mtr zone, forcing line dropouts, creating tries with pin point accurate kicks winning a game single handed? Effectively it is having the same outcome and he is able to win games with 4 or 5 different weapons.
Rather then say Tedesco who might cut the defense with a blistering run. Is he winning the game from nothing? No way, he is only able to cut the defense up cause his forwards have tired the oposition out and created him space. That's why some games Teddy does nothing.
Nathan can win games single handed. Cause he can do it more then one way.

 

[maple_69]

I think it’s really hard to say what Nathan’s true potential is because he’s playing in an Ivan Cleary structure. It’s stodgy, defence and percentage oriented. Ivans found a way to make that work at a massively elite level and Nathan with his work ethic, attention to detail and calm head certainly thrives in it.

Put Nathan into a system like Souths or Easts or Melbourne who are genuinely flashy, Id be fascinated to see how he plays. Flashy is not desirable at Penrith because we know we’ll earn 40 more chances and a bunch of them will be pretty risk free.

 

[mxlegend99]

No other half in the competition could have led us to victory with the busted squad we had in 2021. We had guys unable to train and unable to play at the speed and intensity which made us the best.

Nathan controlled that game absolutely perfectly to minimise the damage souths could do to us with our inability to play 80 minutes of relentless in your face defence. His kicking game was ridiculous.

That might not show up on a highlights reel... Although actually it kinda did and it had rugby league greats marveling at his kicking game. Likewise in Origin 2 this year.

He's tracking to be Panthers greatest point scorer ever and a decent chance at being the all time NRL points scorer too. He's 24 with a CCM. 2x premierships, 3x origin series victories, will be making his Australian debut soon and only hasn't done so yet because they haven't played a game in 3x years.

He's a superstar. There's not a club in the competition who wouldn't want him. Arguably the only player in his position who could say that.

Turbo is great. But Roosters wouldn't get rid of Teddy for him. We wouldn't get rid of Edwards.

Cleary though... What club wouldn't fit him in if he wanted to be there?

 

[Munky]

Nathan's comeback from suspension reminds me of 2005 Johns when he came back from the broken face and dominated Origin.

Cleary did the same thing in the finals, 2005 Johns is what people refer to when recalling his rep career. Nathan was the most dominant finals player I can remember, only contender is Michael Morgan who stood no chance of winning the 2017 GF.

 

[Hooked]

I love a bit of spice. Even better when it not us.

Broncos legend Steve Renouf sends warning to Manly over looming Anthony Seibold call​

Manly's pursuit of Anthony Seibold to be the club's head coach in the wake of Des Hasler's sacking has left Broncos legend Steve Renouf dumbfounded.

As the idea of Seibold becoming Sea Eagles head coach gains momentum, Renouf has sent a warning to Manly officials amid widespread reports the current England rugby assistant is at the top of their list to replace Des Hasler.

Speaking to The Daily Mail, Renouf, who was part of four premiership-winning Broncos sides, said Seibold had "sucked in" Manly with his view on the analytical side of the game.

"He's sucked them (Manly) in with all his psychobabble," Renouf said.

"He did it to us (the Broncos) and now he's done it to them.

"I spoke to multiple players (at the Broncos) and they told me they didn't know what was going on.

"You could see it on the field. They'd be standing behind the line after they'd had a try scored against them and no one was talking.

"They weren't even looking at each other. No-one was taking charge and saying, 'come on, we've got to do this' because they didn't know what they were supposed to be doing.

Anthony had his ideas of how things should be done, and that was it. Trouble was, the players couldn't understand what he was talking about."

Seibold's appointment at the Sea Eagles is expected to be announced in the coming days as he completes his duties under England coach Eddie Jones.

The decision to sack Hasler in favour of the former Broncos mentor has caused uproar among some Manly fans, who believe he doesn't have Hasler's credentials.

Renouf declared Manly were destined to go in the same direction as the Broncos unless Seibold changes his approach.

"We footballers are simple people playing a simple game," Renouf said.

"Wayne (Bennett) always used to say to me, 'you're thinking too much. Don't think, just play.'

"That was the problem with Seibold. He had the players thinking too much. It stressed them out. They didn't want to try anything in case it went badly.

"Good luck to Manly, but I just can't see how it can work. They'll know in six months."

Manly warned over Seibold's big 'problem'

'He's sucked them in'

wwos.nine.com.au