General weights discussion thread

[Pete Cash]

most people who are hitting plateaus just arent willing to eat the food needed for big lifts.

 

[Chicken_Hunter]

Crossfit is alright have done a fair few sessions of it, never fully committed to it though. Thats what the spartacus workouts are, well along the same lines.

I disagree about minimal equipment, on any given week for crossfit you need barbells w/ drop plates, kettlebells, dumbells, heave beams, medicine balls.. well it's not that much, but good luck in a gym during peak hour. And I cant really justify forking out $50+ a week to join a CF gym when I have access to a state of the art facility for free, and I would definitely need form checks on a lot of the CF exercises.

At the moment my weekly routine goes something like this.

Monday: 5km run + Core work(including lower back exercises due to annular disc tear)+ 3X10 heaves
Tuesday: Spartacus X 3 rounds (spartacus is a static total body workout, lots of varying types of pushups, squats, lunges all incorporating dumbells. Takes 40 min to complete
Wednesday: Could be anything usually some sort of circuit, I dont get a say on what we do here.
Thursday: Swimming 2 X 400 @ 9 min pace , 2 X 200 @ 4min pace , 2 X 100 @ 2min pace. Those times are good for me. I am not a tall lanky person like good swimmers.
Friday: Intervals 1 X 400 @ 1:40 warm up, 1 X 800 @ 3:10 pace, 5 X 400 @ 1:30 pace.

So really not much to do with heavy weights there, it is mostly body weight and functional type exercises. I really cant find time in my routine to add in some gym sessions because I want atleast 1 5km run a week, 1 interval session a week and 1 swimming session a week. Wednesday is compulsory PT for me so I dont get a say.

In saying all that I have no idea why i am even posting in this thread.

 

[shaggs]

Crossfit is alright have done a fair few sessions of it, never fully committed to it though. Thats what the spartacus workouts are, well along the same lines.

I disagree about minimal equipment, on any given week for crossfit you need barbells w/ drop plates, kettlebells, dumbells, heave beams, medicine balls.. well it's not that much, but good luck in a gym during peak hour. And I cant really justify forking out $50+ a week to join a CF gym when I have access to a state of the art facility for free, and I would definitely need form checks on a lot of the CF exercises.

At the moment my weekly routine goes something like this.

Monday: 5km run + Core work(including lower back exercises due to annular disc tear)+ 3X10 heaves
Tuesday: Spartacus X 3 rounds (spartacus is a static total body workout, lots of varying types of pushups, squats, lunges all incorporating dumbells. Takes 40 min to complete
Wednesday: Could be anything usually some sort of circuit, I dont get a say on what we do here.
Thursday: Swimming 2 X 400 @ 9 min pace , 2 X 200 @ 4min pace , 2 X 100 @ 2min pace. Those times are good for me. I am not a tall lanky person like good swimmers.
Friday: Intervals 1 X 400 @ 1:40 warm up, 1 X 800 @ 3:10 pace, 5 X 400 @ 1:30 pace.

So really not much to do with heavy weights there, it is mostly body weight and functional type exercises. I really cant find time in my routine to add in some gym sessions because I want atleast 1 5km run a week, 1 interval session a week and 1 swimming session a week. Wednesday is compulsory PT for me so I dont get a say.

In saying all that I have no idea why i am even posting in this thread.

Forgive my ignorance, but what are heaves?

 

[Chicken_Hunter]

chin ups

 

[Cliffhanger]

Heaves are pull ups, not chin ups. Chin ups are for pussies for can't do pull ups. Heaves are pull ups from a dead hang. It's always harder from a dead hang because the angle of the joint at the starrt is the furthest from 90 degrees where the muscle is the strongest.

Chin ups are easier because they allow you to use more of your biceps.

 

[Cliffhanger]

I have a few major issues with crossfit.

One certain movements (such as the olympic lifts) aren't supposed to be performed bang after each other.
Two, while strength and cardiovascular endurance aren't mutually exclusive at the end of the day you have to choose one to focus on.
Three, kipping is f**king cheating, so is crossing your legs when you do pullups because it helps to stabilise your core.
Four, technique is f**king important, not only does it ensure you get maximum benefit from a workout and prevent you from compensating but it prevents injury.

 

[Thomas]

Heaves are pull ups, not chin ups. Chin ups are for pussies for can't do pull ups. Heaves are pull ups from a dead hang. It's always harder from a dead hang because the angle of the joint at the starrt is the furthest from 90 degrees where the muscle is the strongest.

Chin ups are easier because they allow you to use more of your biceps.

Chin ups are palms facing towards you and pull ups are palms facing away, right?

I find chin up waaaay easier. Wide grip pull ups are hard for me but I do both in my workouts.

 

[abpanther]

Heaves are pull ups, not chin ups. Chin ups are for pussies for can't do pull ups. Heaves are pull ups from a dead hang. It's always harder from a dead hang because the angle of the joint at the starrt is the furthest from 90 degrees where the muscle is the strongest.

Chin ups are easier because they allow you to use more of your biceps.

Why are chin ups for pussies if you do pull ups also?

 

[abpanther]

Three, kipping is f**king cheating, so is crossing your legs when you do pullups because it helps to stabilise your core.

What's kipping?

Also, is it bad to cross your legs when doing dips too?

 

[Joker's Wild]

I have a few major issues with crossfit.

One certain movements (such as the olympic lifts) aren't supposed to be performed bang after each other.

When going for maximum strength, no they shouldnt. Perfectly fine when lighter weights are involved as is the case with most, if not all Crossfit WODs

Two, while strength and cardiovascular endurance aren't mutually exclusive at the end of the day you have to choose one to focus on.

Only if your goals are dependent on you focusing on one rather than the other. If you want all round fitness, its fine to mix both within workouts.

Three, kipping is f**king cheating, so is crossing your legs when you do pullups because it helps to stabilise your core.

Define cheating. Kipping is just another form to use if you want to focus on the cardio element of pullups and not the strength element. There is a place for using it and not all pull ups in Crossfit WODs allow you to "Kip"

Four, technique is f**king important, not only does it ensure you get maximum benefit from a workout and prevent you from compensating but it prevents injury.

No Crossfit WODs I have seen promote using poor technique. In fact, any Box I have worked out in insist on seeing new members technique on all the major lifts with an empty bar before letting them workout with weights.

 

[Joker's Wild]

What's kipping?

Also, is it bad to cross your legs when doing dips too?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7spRknkD1hU

I think its appropriate to mention that a Kipping pullup is not a substitute for a standard pullup, they are 2 different exercises. Also like any exercise, if you dont use the proper technique for Kippng Pullups you will increase your risk of injury

 

[RHCP]

JW is part of the cult!

Some points are defendable - as silly as kipping pullups look I'm yet to see somebody quote them as or compare them to regular pullup numbers. But the degradation of technique is not imo. I've seen some really ugly and dangerous cleans performed (and this is from personal experience working out alongside CFitters, not Youtube blooper vids) and many influtential portions of the CF community encourage it:

The “intensity is king” mantra preached at CrossFit’s Level One certifications is, in my opinion, used as a rationale (or an excuse) to train harder, but not necessarily smarter. Haven’t yet been to a Level 1? Here’s an excerpt, based on Melissa’s (and other attendees&#8217 notes: According to Pat Sherwood (who led the discussion on “intensity” at Melissa’s L1 in January 2009), “Unsafe is unacceptable, but so is perfect form.” The instructor explained, “If you’re doing high-rep deadlifts and your back starts to round, that’s unsafe and unacceptable. But if you’re doing that same set of deadlifts with perfect form on every rep, that’s also unacceptable. You’ve either gone too light (in weight), or you’re not working hard enough.” Sherwood explained that the ideal is referred to as ‘CrossFit slop’.” The ‘slop’ ideal is often cited within the CrossFit community as 20% form degradation (compared to 100% perfect form). According to CrossFit theory, that’s the optimal balance of effort and safety. “That’s where intensity lives,” Sherwood said. “Technique has to be good enough to increase intensity, but you should never strive for perfect form.”

 

[Joker's Wild]

"Cult" lol

Well I can only go off my own experiences mate but no Box I have ever trained at has promoted bad form over volume. Nor have I ever heard anyone mention this "Crossfit slop". These "crossfitters" you have worked out with, have they actually been to a Box before or have they just watched some videos online and decided to giver it a crack on their own? Im guessing, like all workout styles, there are people who fail to seek the proper advice before trying something new. We've all seen the guys at the gym squatting/benching/deadlifting heavy with poor technique but that doesnt mean that powerlifing promotes poor form.

Do you have a link for that quote? Its all news to me and Ive been involved in Crossfit for 3 years now

 

[Thomas]

I don't see anything wrong with kipping pull ups. As JW said, kipping pull ups and regular pull ups are two different exercises. I very much doubt someone who does 50 kipping pull ups wouldn't be able to do 10-20 or so dead hang pull ups.

I have never tried kipping before but was taught a couple of weeks ago by a trainer. I could only do a couple and they certainly are more of a core exercise. My core is shit so I was useless at them but it gave me something to aim at.

 

[Thomas]

Why are chin ups for pussies if you do pull ups also?

It's a rather bizarre comment, that's for sure. They both have their merits.

 

[Cliffhanger]

Chin ups are a waste of time if you can do pull ups which do the same muscles but have a greater emphasis on your lats making them harder.

Chin ups focus on your biceps more, a relatively small muscle group which gets way too much attention.

Unless you have a massive deficiency, focusing on your biceps is a waste of time, pull ups, and barbell rows will give them enough.

If you want to vary your pull ups do wide grip, close grip etc..

 

[Cliffhanger]

There's a lot of cross fitters in my weight lifting club and despite having done the olympic lifts before, none of them ever brushed, they themselves even complained about how little time they had been given to learn them and the volumes they were then expected to do despite not have the technique down packed.

I am not saying crossfitters aren't strong, there is no doubt they're f**king strong. I just disagree with their methods.

I know one crossfitter who dislocate their shoulder in competition trying to execute a clean and jerk.

 

[Thomas]

Like any "new fad", crossfit will attract people who want to participate without learning the basics. A mate of mine runs a Crossfit gym in the UK and will not train people until they've completed an extensive training program. Unfortunately there's a lot of people new on the scene who start up crossfit groups without this core understanding. Maybe in it for the quick buck?

 

[Chicken_Hunter]

Heaves are pull ups, not chin ups. Chin ups are for pussies for can't do pull ups. Heaves are pull ups from a dead hang. It's always harder from a dead hang because the angle of the joint at the starrt is the furthest from 90 degrees where the muscle is the strongest.

Chin ups are easier because they allow you to use more of your biceps.

Yes, my bad. These are how I always do them. Its hard when you first start but I have been doing them for years so its easy

 

[Cliffhanger]

Yeah, I find it hard not to go into full extension at the end of a pull up, I feel like I am cheating otherwise.