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Gold Coast Bears/Nth Sydney/Gosford

Hello, I'm The Doctor

First Grade
Messages
9,124
You assert that these established Sydney clubs have small fanbases. So Cronulla Sutherland and other 'smaller' clubs haven't created a fanbase outside of their area despite winning a premiership and being competitive. I think you underestimate the effects of genuine longevity and the credibility that goes with this. Once again your backflip is dissappointing. Negativity must sit well with you.

Wel they clearly dont have that many fans "inside their area", so moving them wouldnt be that bad an idea...

Most fans watch on tv, so whether the team is in Sydney of NQLD doesnt matter if youre watching from your couch. Why not move the team to the fanbase "outside of their area" and actually get some decent crowds?

I think the dudes whom convinced the rugby league administrators in the so called superleague agreement knew what 'dilute' meant. 'Weaken'!

I reckon they did know what "dilute" meant, but i still think you dont...
 

Stallion

First Grade
Messages
7,467
P&R for Sydney exclusively. This would actually be brilliant for the game...

It protects the vital markets across the regions/interstate, and travel costs in the lower grade would be nothing (the longest trip for this second division would be Manly to Campbeltown).

Get some fear back in fans that (if you dont turn up, your team might not be here next year) and it gets some excitement back in the game (the closed shop we have is f*cking dull).

And, if a team want to protect it place in the NRL, all they need to do is relocate to a city outside of the Sydney division area.

Yes doctor. Glad we agree. A P& R conference exclusively for Sydney with 9 maybe 10 clubs would work.
 

Stallion

First Grade
Messages
7,467
Wel they clearly dont have that many fans "inside their area", so moving them wouldnt be that bad an idea...

Most fans watch on tv, so whether the team is in Sydney of NQLD doesnt matter if youre watching from your couch. Why not move the team to the fanbase "outside of their area" and actually get some decent crowds?



I reckon they did know what "dilute" meant, but i still think you dont...

I do and your version is not mine for Sydney.
 

Vee

First Grade
Messages
5,634
September 13th page 375 of thread 'like'. Topic was on 'Tyrrany of distance' with the geography of Sydney clubs and the issue of external one city clubs being vulnerable when things go bad.
Checking...Nope, still can't be shagged looking it up.
 

Stallion

First Grade
Messages
7,467
Checking...Nope, still can't be shagged looking it up.

Its there and mentions the difficulties with the geography in Sydney. Also how important it is to keep the core of the game ( with mention of a promotion and relegation conference specifically for the Sydney metropolitan area) The tyrrany of distance when things falter for clubs based outside of Sydney. And the Australia wide respect and knowledge/popularity of the Sydney based clubs.
 
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21,880
I'd drop 4 Sydney teams, bring in bears in Gosford and expand the game with big city clubs, nsw cup can be second division for the small suburban clubs.

Needs to be some sort of realignment in Sydney but dropping 4 teams is madness.

Fact is we have a comp that was born out of a suburban comp, too late to change that now.

Most realistic outcome I could see for Sydney is,

1 team relocating out of state.

Dragons to Wollongong

A team to central coast

That’d leave 6 teams in Sydney itself full time. A city of 5 million people.

Even that will be an extremely difficult outcome to achieve.
 

Vee

First Grade
Messages
5,634
Its there and mentions the difficulties with the geography in Sydney. Also how important it is to keep the core of the game ( with mention of a promotion and relegation conference specifically for the Sydney metropolitan area) The tyrrany of distance when things falter for clubs based outside of Sydney. And the Australia wide respect and knowledge/popularity of the Sydney based clubs.
Okay, just for you I looked it up and couldn't find it. P&R is not something I've ever supported in Oz. Post it here if you like, otherwise we're done.
 
Messages
21,880
Should be the Central Coast Bears! Not far from North Sydney. Consolidating a strong junior base and creating more club rivalries., especially for Newcastle and Manly Warringah. Leave the Gold Coast Titans become a true southern Queensland club in their own right.

There’s no more room for any new teams in NSW. That ship has sailed.

Growth into new territories is far too important.
 

Stallion

First Grade
Messages
7,467
There’s no more room for any new teams in NSW. That ship has sailed.

Growth into new territories is far too important.
Growth into other can still occur with consolidation of the Sydney area. A 20 team comp is achievable without the strife and destruction of established markets that are well recognised and respected.
 
Messages
21,880
I would add the Central Coast Bears so a 9 team top flight presence would occur. Eventually these 9 teams would be part of a metropolitan only relegation and promotion conference . Eventually a 20 team comp would be good with another Brisbane club, West Coast team and another area that shows promise.

Interesting outside the box thinking but you’d create a 2 speed competition I think.

Non metropolitan sides would become far richer because of the certainty they had of being in the top tier.

I like the idea of promotion/relegation one day, but it’d need to be for the whole comp & it would need to be after a long period of stability in new markets.

Essentially I think we’d be looking at 40-50 years time.
 
Messages
21,880
Growth into other can still occur with consolidation of the Sydney area. A 20 team comp is achievable without the strife and destruction of established markets that are well recognised and respected.

You’d be taking up the place of another potential market.

Perth
Brisbane 2
Adelaide
NZ 2
PNG (admittedly a while off)
Central Queensland

One of them would have to miss out
 

Hello, I'm The Doctor

First Grade
Messages
9,124
Yes doctor. Glad we agree. A P& R conference exclusively for Sydney with 9 maybe 10 clubs would work.

It would be great, because it would encourage teams to move into new markets (Perth, Adelaide, NZ) to secure their place in the NRL...

It would be great because it would make Sydney suddenly unattractive for the tiny suburban clubs who wont be able to compete with the big clubs.
 

Stallion

First Grade
Messages
7,467
Interesting outside the box thinking but you’d create a 2 speed competition I think.

Non metropolitan sides would become far richer because of the certainty they had of being in the top tier.

I like the idea of promotion/relegation one day, but it’d need to be for the whole comp & it would need to be after a long period of stability in new markets.

Essentially I think we’d be looking at 40-50 years time.

Promotion and relegation for Sydney metropolitan area only. In Sydney it may invigorate the game in areas such as North Sydney. If you have promotion and relegation comp wide then the tyrrany of distance issues arise. When a one team town has a poor period the game will suffer and decline.
 
Messages
21,880
It would be great, because it would encourage teams to move into new markets (Perth, Adelaide, NZ) to secure their place in the NRL...

It would be great because it would make Sydney suddenly unattractive for the tiny suburban clubs who wont be able to compete with the big clubs.

He’s talking promotion/relegation for Sydney in a 20 team comp.

If there’s already 20 teams there isn’t many places for the Sydney teams to relocate to.
 

Stallion

First Grade
Messages
7,467
It would be great, because it would encourage teams to move into new markets (Perth, Adelaide, NZ) to secure their place in the NRL...


It would be great because it would make Sydney suddenly unattractive for the tiny suburban clubs who wont be able to compete with the big clubs.
Im not so sure on that logic however the chance for clubs like North Sydney to be promoted and another not so well performing club to be relegated is better than no chance at all. It may invigorate the next tier down competition. Certainly increase local Sydney club interest and rivalries.
 
Messages
21,880
Promotion and relegation for Sydney metropolitan area only. In Sydney it may invigorate the game in areas such as North Sydney. If you have promotion and relegation comp wide then the tyrrany of distance issues arise. When a one team town has a poor period the game will suffer and decline.

Yeah I understood that.

My point is that would create a 2 speed competition. Rich clubs & poor clubs, there’s already a gap, it’ll increase that further,

Promotion and relegation can work on a wider scale with a big enough population. Tyranny of distance will become less of an issue in the time period I’m talking about. (40-50 years)
 

Stallion

First Grade
Messages
7,467
Yeah I understood that.

My point is that would create a 2 speed competition. Rich clubs & poor clubs, there’s already a gap, it’ll increase that further,

Promotion and relegation can work on a wider scale with a big enough population. Tyranny of distance will become less of an issue in the time period I’m talking about. (40-50 years)

Im talking now. And yes I agree many decades into the future. Perhaps the one team town clubs will have 2 clubs in then?This is a smart strategy adopted by the AFL as we text.
 
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The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,960
You call it rationalisarion I call it diluting the core of the game in Sydney. Melbourne have 10 top flight AFL clubs with 1million less people than Sydney which has 8.5 top flight NRL clubs. One code seems to be going ahead and the other keeps regressing? Go figure. If I were the NRL I would show the same intent as the AFL in junior development. Thats progress. Please note that the AFL has universal presence in both public and private schooling. This is not the case for rugby league. As rugby league dismantles itself(courtesy of superleague logic) more neutral fans see a weakness and go elsewhere for their 'footy' fix.

The AFL is in the exact same hole as the NRL in this regard, they're just able to plaster over it more easily because of their average attendance in Melbourne, and the fact that they don't have as many options for expansion as the NRL does.

They have the exact same problems with having to carry smaller clubs in Melbourne and it holding back the growth of the sport, competition for sponsorship, etc, in fact they have been pressuring smaller clubs (Demons, Kangaroos, Bulldogs, etc) to relocate for decades now, they just don't have the balls to force the issue at the moment.

Also you assert that the "core of the game" is in Sydney and that it must be protected, but why should the game in Sydney be preserved at the expense of the game in other regions?

Why does a place that has the most access to top flight RL content, and has the most money poured into it's grassroots, of anywhere in the world need even more help at the expense of places that literally have little to no access to top flight RL at all and run their grassroots on the smell of an oily rag.

If you want to see a place where RL is struggling then come down to Canberra, a place where we have to deal with corrupt politicians in bed with the AFL eroding our sport in the most clandestine of ways on one side and the private school's old boys club and the most successful RU club in the country eroding it on the other, while the NRL stands by and watches it happen and does nothing to help because they are too busy appeasing the Sydney clubs, the Broncos, and their News Limited overlords!

Then once you've seen RL struggling in Canberra go out into the bush, somewhere like Wagga, Tamworth, Junee, etc, and see whats left of the sport out there, not a lot is the answer because they simply get next to zero support.
Then once you're done in country NSW go out to SA, WA, Victoria, etc, and have a look at the absolute wastelands that they are for the sport because they get even less support.

Then once you've done all that tell me that Sydney needs more support and can't afford to give a little back to the game.

P&R for Sydney exclusively. This would actually be brilliant for the game...

It protects the vital markets across the regions/interstate, and travel costs in the lower grade would be nothing (the longest trip for this second division would be Manly to Campbeltown).

Get some fear back in fans that (if you dont turn up, your team might not be here next year) and it gets some excitement back in the game (the closed shop we have is f*cking dull).

And, if a team want to protect it place in the NRL, all they need to do is relocate to a city outside of the Sydney division area.

What no it wouldn't, it's a bloody stupid idea.

It doesn't fix the main problem that over saturation causes, to much competition for resources to support the amount of clubs in the region!
If anything it'd compound the problem by adding even more competition for local sponsors, corporate dollars, fans, FTA time, etc, in fact I think it'd be fair to say that it'd force the Sydney clubs to cannibalise each other even more and completely neuter the clubs in Sydney commercially over time.
 
Messages
21,880
Im talking now. And yes I agree many decades into the future. Perhaps the one team town clubs will have 2 clubs in them, This is a smart strategy adopted by the AFL as we text.

Dude, I understood.

I’m saying it’s an interesting idea but it’d create a have’s and have nots competition.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,960
Needs to be some sort of realignment in Sydney but dropping 4 teams is madness.

Fact is we have a comp that was born out of a suburban comp, too late to change that now.

Most realistic outcome I could see for Sydney is,

1 team relocating out of state.

Dragons to Wollongong

A team to central coast

That’d leave 6 teams in Sydney itself full time. A city of 5 million people.

Even that will be an extremely difficult outcome to achieve.

Dropping 4 teams from Sydney all at once would be madness, but long term it's the best bet for the future.

This is all academic though because there isn't anywhere for them to drop to that has reasonable exposure.
That's why the second tier needs to be restructured into a more inclusive national competition, where teams from anywhere can join.
 

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