Gold Coast decision anger Wests Tigers

[NZ Warrior]

I have a better idea. Make this a National Rugby League and set up a Perth team and f**k the Warriors off. Not a brilliant financial organisation, crowds bordering on pitiful for a one nation team. BTW how close were the warriors to being bankrupt if the constant grants were not forthcoming from the NRL

It's amazing how people get hooked up on just one word "National". I'm surprised they don't suffer eternal frustation that South Sydney have a team in the "Premier" League.

Not a brilliant financial organisation, eh!!! Then what do you call a team that is one of the only teams in the NRL to return a profit???

Do you expect all of NZ to turn up to the Warriors game, do you?

The Auckland Warriors did go bankrupt, hence why they are now the NZ Warriors. This was due to sh*tty management. I'd love to hear about these constant grants that came from the NRL. You aren't talking about the grants that EVERY NRL club is entitled to, are you???

You should really research before you go running your mouth off. You aren't one of those xenophobic Aussies, are you???

 

[mightybears]

The game was stronger than ever in the early 90's aswell, and teams like Balmain and Wests were apart of the comp then weren't they? The point is that the ARL were trying to grow the game slowly in that era and it was working well! The Super League just plonked teams every where and watered down the comp! That is what brought the game to it's knee's mate, not corner stone clubs like Balmain, Norths or Wests!

exactly

 

[Foz]

I think Wests,Balmain and Norths are all entitled to a spot back in the NRL if they can prove they are financially viable.
I dont care if they have 50 teams in the comp they can split up and play divisions if they get enough.
I dont know if these 3 clubs would have survived as separate entities.
They may have.
I've got no doubt in my mind the Rugby League Competition is way ahead of what we had in the 1990's (pre and post Super League).
People can bag Super League all they like (most would know I am not a fan of News and their propaganda) but it has brought about a much better product than we had before the Super League War.
I wont go into it as its been discussed a million times before but the fact I can watch all the games (5 live on Foxtel) makes me happier for starters.
Not as good for the FTA but hopefully this can be rectified.
Doesn't detract from the fact Rugby League is now a much better product than in the 1990's.
Prove the finances let em in.
Easier said than done.

 

[yappy]

I'd be interested to see Wests and the Tigers reaction if the NRL gave them the nod to part ways again. I reckon they'd sh*t themselves, because neither would be able to sustain a team on their own. Souths would look like Rugby League giants compared to them if they were to split. The writing for Wests was on the wall in the early 80's when they had to go to court to stay in the NSWRL. I'm pretty sure they struggled ever since both on and off the field.

Oh god it's like a fricn sheltered workshop in here (or a referees convention). Wests have two Leagues clubs that make $10mil a year profit EACH. Offer us our own spot and we'd be on it like a flash, and it wouldn't be us struggling.

 

[ibeme]

Oh god it's like a fricn sheltered workshop in here (or a referees convention). Wests have two Leagues clubs that make $10mil a year profit EACH. Offer us our own spot and we'd be on it like a flash, and it wouldn't be us struggling.

Well then there's no excuse for not being a powerhouse now. With the combined wealth, and shared costs with the Tigers, you should be unstoppable.

 

[NZ Warrior]

Well then there's no excuse for not being a powerhouse now. With the combined wealth, and shared costs with the Tigers, you should be unstoppable.

Good form

 

[colonel_123]

Well then there's no excuse for not being a powerhouse now. With the combined wealth, and shared costs with the Tigers, you should be unstoppable.

It doesn't quite work that way.

As far as I'm aware (I could be wrong), the money is split fifty-fifty. At the present time both sides of the merger commit the same amount of money. However, because the Balmain side is less profitable it is able to commit far less money than the Wests side which has two very profitable and very viable League Clubs.

Now theoretically the Wests side might be able to contribute $10 million per year but because Balmain can only contribute $1.5 million, the Wests side contributes only $1.5 million. This is because the Wests Tigers are a true joint-venture not a take over. (I have no idea what the real figures are)

Wests Tigers will continue to suffer financial difficulties until Balmain (hopefully soon with the proposed League's Club renovations) are able to contribute more money, and thus the Wests side, in line with the 50/50 cost sharing split would be allowed or able or willing to commit more money.

Wests are probably able to commit more money now, and might even be more viable as a single entity, but they would only do so if they were given concessions (which would undermine the joint venture nature of the club), which could be a name change back to the Magpies, or more games out of Campbelltown, but I can't imagine they'll commit more money to the JOINT-venture, whilst it remains a joint-venture. In essence for Wests to commit more money they would need to take over the joint venture.

Please some one let me know if what I just wrote there is totally wrong...

Also keep in mind, it's hard to say how Wests would have ended up today had they not been merged. Yes Wests were in financial troubles, but in a short space of time the growth of the Campbelltown Leagues club and the massive upgrades to the Ashfield Leagues clubs have made the Wests Club far more viable than it was in 1999.

There's nothing to say that this wouldn't have happened had Wests remained in the competition...

 

[Snappy Tom]

Wests Need to spend all it's time in and around the Campbelltown region. This is the future of the club, with a very strong junior base. The Campbelltown region has the potential to be bigger and much stronger than the Penrith region. The kids, the juniors are the future of the club.

The dead weight holding the club down is the Balmain side of the merger. The use of a outdated leichhardt oval, games played at Aussie are a joke. Wests need some home ground and not 5 or 6 places were the fans out west cant identify as a local club.

Time to cut the chain on the dead weight and let the Balmain side of the merger sink and meet up with the Titanic, and let the Western Suburbs area of Campbelltown have it own team, own identity and watch it all grow and become a force again.

 

[yappy]

Well then there's no excuse for not being a powerhouse now. With the combined wealth, and shared costs with the Tigers, you should be unstoppable.

Except for the little problem of the structure of the JV. Because its all 50/50 down the line Wests can only put in as much as Balmain. Balmain can't afford much so Wests Tigers gets twice not much and has to whore itself to Telstra and Jade. We'd be happy to take over, but Balmain aren't exactly keen on the consequences of that (fair enough too), so instead they hang on. Neither side wanted it, and both are trying desperately to make it as much like what they had before as they can.

JV's always were a dud idea - only someone who is confident they don't have to live with the consequences would ever propose the idea. Just be thankful your team hasn't found themselves forced into one. You wouldn't be so quick to hand out gratuitous and ill-informed advice if you were.

 

[yappy]

colonel - you got it exactly right, except your figures are out. The Original JV agreement was for both sides to put in $1.5mil each, which should be plenty for any club. Last year it was less than $2mil all up. That missing mil makes a big difference.

 

[strong_latte]

Well then there's no excuse for not being a powerhouse now. With the combined wealth, and shared costs with the Tigers, you should be unstoppable.

You see there's this thing called the Salery cap...

 

[ibeme]

You see there's this thing called the Salery cap...

Money still talks, in terms of administration, coaching staff, facilities and marketing.

 

[Tidus_Raider]

Anyone know where you can find average crowd attendances for Norths, Balmain and Wests or for any club for that matter from the 1990's?

 

[colonel_123]

Money still talks, in terms of administration, coaching staff, facilities and marketing.

But as as been mentioned, the Wests Tigers don't have access to very much money because the Wests side can only put in as much as the Balmain side can.

While Wests potentially have alot of money, it is untouchable from a Wests Tigers perspective.

Tidus Raider:

http://stats.rleague.com/rl/crowds/summary.html

 

[CULLUS.ONLINE]

The game was stronger than ever in the early 90's aswell, and teams like Balmain and Wests were apart of the comp then weren't they? The point is that the ARL were trying to grow the game slowly in that era and it was working well! The Super League just plonked teams every where and watered down the comp! That is what brought the game to it's knee's mate, not corner stone clubs like Balmain, Norths or Wests!

To right!

Balmain and Wests were in the comp from day one. They were there when the comp was booming the the early years, they were there when league was at its height during the 70's and 80's and they were there when the Super League war happened.

If we are going by those rules, then clubs like Brisbane and Newcastle are the ones that caused the super league war! geez!
Talk about a stupid argument.

 

[galahs]

Its funny, as a Wests fan I am not angry with the Gold Coast being re-instated. I'm happy for them as they should never have been dropped.

As you may be aware, I am angry Wests don't play more games at Campbelltown. Its the future of the club as a JV, or the catylist for the disintigration of the Wests Tigers JV and the re-instatment of the Western Suburbs Magpies (unfortunatley at the expence of the Balmain Tigers).

 

[Kurt Angle]

To right!

Balmain and Wests were in the comp from day one........they were there when league was at its height during the 70's and 80's

Average Attendances from the "golden era"

1985: 7,985
1984: 7,674
1983: 6,969
1982: 8,476
1981: 8,647
1980: 9,881
1979: 9,971
1978:10,402
1977: 9,188
1976:10,543
1975: 9,893
1974: 8,009
1973: 8,776

This was the strength of the game on the back of 'powerful' clubs such as Norths, Wests, Balmain and Souths.

The problem is these pissy sides don't realise there weren't 12 elite clubs in Australia comprising the NSWRL. There were additional clubs in the brisbane comp, and also the newcastle comp.

So out of 30 or so strong club, what we have done in the turn of the new century is rationalise these clubs to an elite 15/16 that enables players to be fulltime professionals and deliver RL of outstanding quality week-in, week-out.

For these 16 teams we have to spread them out the entire country. weak sides however such as Balmain and Souths feel they have a god given right to exist in an elite competition because they have a heritage.

Well there is heritage of clubs through the Brisbane comp and the newcastle comp, yet they have sucessfully conceded they should take a step down to lower comps such as the Qld cup for the good of the game.

Balmain, Norths, Wests..... all still exist. IF you want to cherish the Red and Black strip of the bears or whatever, go to north sydney oval. You'll still see them play.

 

[galahs]

I don't care what the side is named (I'd prefer the Magpies but I'd live with the Tigers etc) we just need a fulltime side out of Campbelltown.

 

[Tidus_Raider]

The game was stronger than ever in the early 90's aswell, and teams like Balmain and Wests were apart of the comp then weren't they? The point is that the ARL were trying to grow the game slowly in that era and it was working well! The Super League just plonked teams every where and watered down the comp! That is what brought the game to it's knee's mate, not corner stone clubs like Balmain, Norths or Wests!

Stronger then ever in the early 1990's huh? Lets see you say that the ARL was trying to grow the game slowly. If so then average attendance's would have to be steadily improving right? I have included the Bulldogs, Eels and St George so as we could compare them to some other Sydney clubs. Also not that I didnt just choose the succesful Sydney clubs at the time because neither the Dogs, Eels, Dragons or Sea Eagles were world beaters for a long period of time between 1990-1995 (When all the SL sh*t stated gaining momentum)

1990 average crowds:

Wests (Campbelltown) 9827

Balmain (Leichhardt) 8911

1991 average crowds

Wests (Campbelltown) 10 985

Balmain (Leichhardt) 7205

1992 average crowds

Wests (Campbelltown) 8814

Balmain (Leichardt) 8921

1993 average crowds

Wests (Campbelltown) 7055

Balmain (Leichardt) 6920

1994 average crowds (One of leagues best seasons)

Wests (Campbelltown) 6836

Balmain (Leichardt) 7348

1995 average crowd

Wests (Campbelltown) 7574

Balmain (Leichardt) 6254

So in this 6 year period where league was as you put it "stronger the ever" the average crowds for:

Wests 8515

Balmain 7593

-------------

No to compare them with some Sydney teams still around today who enjoyed mixed succes during this period. There averages between 1990-1995 are:

Manly 13656

Parramatta 11 475

Bulldogs 11 992

In 1998, the year of the amalgamation Wests had the second worst average crowds from the Sydney clubs after only Souths.

Ever since the merger the average crowd figurs for the Wests Tigers has grown and last year it was almost upto 14, 000. I don't see how splitting the club back as two separate entities will strengthen the NRL.

 

[Misty Bee]

Well there is heritage of clubs through the Brisbane comp and the newcastle comp, yet they have sucessfully conceded they should take a step down to lower comps such as the Qld cup for the good of the game.

Step down from what?

The NRL has grown from the old Sydney premiership, and no other. That's because the Sydney premiership was the strongest, wealthiest, and most popular. To witness a club like Wynnum-Manly go from an urban comp to a state wide comp, and use that to justify the death of a club elsewhere is like blaming Sir Frances Drake for the Asian Tsunami.

It has utterly NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with it!