Grand finalists in the NRL vs AFL for the last 21 Years....

[Generalzod]

No the part about NRL supporting their expansion club with a $4.6mill a year grant for 5 years to get News Ltd conflict of ownership out the way is validated by the NRL. The News Ltd putting in $77million over the other 15 years is not that I am aware of. I have asked him numerous times for a source for this claim which he continually ignores.

The second part is very clearly a perception he has and cant back up with any evidence, because its a perception lol

Either way the Arl commission and news limited where funnelling money to the Storm don’t know how much but it was quite substantial...why do you think they been so successful in there short time if it wasn’t amount money.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I've posted this before in other threads, but I'll do so again since the liar from Perth claims I've never done so.

Melbourne Storm Financials

Periodically certain AFL leaning folks bring up the Melbourne Storms funds and debt profile over the years.

In 2010, Crikey noted that the Storm had been losing 6 million a year, with News covering the losses.

In 2012, the Australian Rugby League Commission guaranteed $26.5 million over the next six years Melbourne Storm with the express aim to being “to keep the game thriving in Victoria”.

In March 2012, Roy Masters remarked that the Storm were losing 8 million a year.

In August 2013, Fairfax reported that the Storm had been overspending to the tune of between $2 million and $5 million for 15 years. This shortfall had been financed by News Ltd and the amount spent by the club does not seem to be falling since the salary cap scandal in 2010.

The Storm football club spent about $20 million a year, or about $2-$4 million more than most other clubs except for the wealthy Broncos. The new consortium of owners, led by New Zealander Bart Campbell, were projecting the club will break even in five years, which is a long time to be losing money.

In June 2015, Fairfax quoted Storm owner Bart Campbell.

“Our lofty aspiration is to be solvent – that meaning cash comes in, cash comes out and at the end of the year the books balance. We are not in that position yet, but we have funds so it’s not all woe is me, but we believe over time there will be a business in this town called Melbourne Storm that is solvent and if we make profits we will re-invest them.”

In August 2015, The Australian Financial Review reported that the Storm turned over about $25 million annually, a figure that put it in the top half of the league, and had a membership base of about 15,000 but average crowds of about 14,000.

The clubs owners also bought a local hotel with hope the facility will offset continued financial losses for the Storm, which effectively breaks even each season but only after receiving an additional $26.5 million over six years as part of the terms of News Corp, once owner of the club, exiting its half-stake in the NRL in 2012.

On September 30th, 2016 Storm partowner Matthew Tripp was quoted in the Australian Financial Review

“I think we are at the break-even stage now and we can be profitable next year,” Tripp told AFR Weekend. “But we are not necessarily in this for the money. This club has been built on a great culture … we’ve got those legends playing for us and a fantastic coach in Craig Bellamy. The leadership they show is fantastic, and they really set the standards for the younger guys coming through.”

References

2010.03.31 – Try as they might, no News Ltd means no Melbourne Storm
2012.02.11 – Australian Rugby League Commission grants Melbourne Storm $26.5 million
2012.03.26 – Greek bean counters could learn a thing or two from leaguenomics
2013.08.30 – Moneyball: how is your club placed?
2015.06.15 – Melbourne Storm name Donaghy chief executive
2015.08.24 – Melbourne Storm targets 20,000 members and hopes pub buy brings financial stability
2016.09.30 – Rich listers’ bet on Melbourne Storm pays off

http://www.footyindustry.com/?page_id=2717

 

[Perth Red]

Either way the Arl commission and news limited where funnelling money to the Storm don’t know how much but it was quite substantial...why do you think they been so successful in there short time if it wasn’t amount money.

Why hasn't Roosters, Eels, Bulldogs, Broncos etc etc been as successful as Storm given the copious amounts of money that has flowed to them from different sources? Money isnt everything. Sht even Cronulla won one and look how broke arse they are!

Titans showed that if you are going to start a new club you'd better be prepared to back it. AFL understand this, NRL struggles with the concept.

 

[Generalzod]

Why hasn't Roosters, Eels, Bulldogs, Broncos etc etc been as successful as Storm given the copious amounts of money that has flowed to them from different sources? Money isnt everything. Sht even Cronulla won one and look how broke arse they are!

Titans showed that if you are going to start a new club you'd better be prepared to back it. AFL understand this, NRL struggles with the concept.

Yep but they where not given leg ups like the Storm...

 

[Perth Red]

So basically a load of made up figures be fairfax reporters? Given the Storms finances have never been made public its all just speculation.

 

[Perth Red]

Yep but they where not given leg ups like the Storm...

Yes they were, just from different sources. Pokie clubs, private owners, flogging assetts, most clubs get leg ups to help their football operations from somewhere.
NRL decided to invest $26.5 mill in the Storm as they know the value of the club to the bottom line. They should have done the same for the Titans then we might have a vibrant sustainable club on the GC now instead of the basket case it has been since its inception.

 

[Generalzod]

Yes they were, just from different sources. Pokie clubs, private owners, flogging assetts, most clubs get leg ups to help their football operations from somewhere.
NRL decided to invest $26.5 mill in the Storm as they know the value of the club to the bottom line. They should have done the same for the Titans then we might have a vibrant sustainable club on the GC now instead of the basket case it has been since its inception.

Really Canterbury Bankstown club giving leg ups to the Bulldogs how dare they....

 

[Canard]

Newcastle and the Gold Coast, two clubs in heartland league territory,had to be bailed by the NRL.

If you don't think expansion teams should have funding assistance you're a bigger dickhead than Phil Gould.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Well behind the Brisbane Bears in what exactly?

Attendances, membership numbers, TV ratings in their home city. The Lions manage that in a city half the size of Melbourne and with a team that spent the bulk of the last 15 years at the foot of the ladder.

Brisbane Lions Membership Numbers
2018 - 24,867
2019 - 28,023

https://www.aflonline.com.au/afl-news/current-afl-membership-numbers-for-2019/

Melbourne Storm Membership Numbers
2018 - 25,105
2019 - 25,208

https://leagueunlimited.com/news/32567-2019-nrl-club-membership-tracker/

Melbourne Storm Attendances
2019 - 18,230, although that includes one game away from Melbourne. Of their 11 games played in Melbourne, the average was 16,104.
https://www.afltables.com/rl/crowds/2019.html
2018 - 17,293, although that includes one game away from Melbourne. Of their 11 games played in Melbourne, the average was 16,036.
https://www.afltables.com/rl/crowds/2018.html

Brisbane Lions Attendances
2019 - 24,741
https://www.afltables.com/afl/crowds/2019.html
2018 - 18,406
https://www.afltables.com/afl/crowds/2018.html

Seriously, you need to get a clue!

You don't know anything.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

So basically a load of made up figures be fairfax reporters? Given the Storms finances have never been made public its all just speculation.

You're delusional.

Yes they were, just from different sources. Pokie clubs, private owners, flogging assetts, most clubs get leg ups to help their football operations from somewhere.
NRL decided to invest $26.5 mill in the Storm as they know the value of the club to the bottom line. They should have done the same for the Titans then we might have a vibrant sustainable club on the GC now instead of the basket case it has been since its inception.

FMD...

Why do you think News Ltd demanded the ARLC funnel $26.5 million into the Storm's coffers for six seasons when they sold their stake in the Storm and the game?

$26.5/6 = $4,416, 666
$4,416,666 x 15 = $66,250,000
$66,250,000 + $26,500,000 = $92,750,000

What was the amount Fairfax said News Ltd were funneling into the Storm over 25 years?

Oh yeah, $2-$5M a year!

$5,000,000 x 15 = $75,000,000

News Ltd knew how much extra funding the Storm would require each year, as they owned the club from its inception. You're just refusing to accept the fact this club has overspent to gain an advantage over their competitors, and their money came from the company that owned 50% of the game between 98-12, and for the next 6 seasons it came from the NRL.

Roy Masters said it was $8,000,000 a year. He's a respected RL journalist.

No other club has received this sort of funding from the governing body of the sport to gain an advantage over their competitors. Trying to compare it with Leagues Club funding is insane. Canard comparing it to the Titans is dumb as shit, as that money was to keep the team afloat, not give them an advantage on the field.

 

[Canard]

Attendances, membership numbers, TV ratings in their home city. The Lions manage that in a city half the size of Melbourne and with a team that spent the bulk of the last 15 years at the foot of the ladder.

Brisbane Lions Membership Numbers
2018 - 24,867
2019 - 28,023

https://www.aflonline.com.au/afl-news/current-afl-membership-numbers-for-2019/

Melbourne Storm Membership Numbers
2018 - 25,105
2019 - 25,208

https://leagueunlimited.com/news/32567-2019-nrl-club-membership-tracker/

Melbourne Storm Attendances
2019 - 18,230, although that includes one game away from Melbourne. Of their 11 games played in Melbourne, the average was 16,104.
https://www.afltables.com/rl/crowds/2019.html
2018 - 17,293, although that includes one game away from Melbourne. Of their 11 games played in Melbourne, the average was 16,036.
https://www.afltables.com/rl/crowds/2018.html

Brisbane Lions Attendances
2019 - 24,741
https://www.afltables.com/afl/crowds/2019.html
2018 - 18,406
https://www.afltables.com/afl/crowds/2018.html

Seriously, you need to get a clue!

You don't know anything.

That's not WELL behind its essentially on par, and the Lions have a Decade on the Storm.

 

[Canard]

You're delusional.



FMD...

Why do you think News Ltd demanded the ARLC funnel $26.5 million into the Storm's coffers for six seasons when they sold their stake in the Storm and the game?

$26.5/6 = $4,416, 666
$4,416,666 x 15 = $66,250,000
$66,250,000 + $26,500,000 = $92,750,000

What was the amount Fairfax said News Ltd were funneling into the Storm over 25 years?

Oh yeah, $2-$5M a year!

$5,000,000 x 15 = $75,000,000

News Ltd knew how much extra funding the Storm would require each year, as they owned the club from its inception. You're just refusing to accept the fact this club has overspent to gain an advantage over their competitors, and their money came from the company that owned 50% of the game between 98-12, and for the next 6 seasons it came from the NRL.

Roy Masters said it was $8,000,000 a year. He's a respected RL journalist.

No other club has received this sort of funding from the governing body of the sport to gain an advantage over their competitors. Trying to compare it with Leagues Club funding is insane. Canard comparing it to the Titans is dumb as shit, as that money was to keep the team afloat, not give them an advantage on the field.

No other NRL club is located in AFL heartland.

To put it on Level footing it needs assistance. The "advantage" is complete bullshit.

They don't recieve any funding over and above other clubs with respect to salary cap.

In the AFL, they subsidise there expansion teams to the tune of $20M a year, and give them on-field concessions.

Insular fans like who can't see the value of expanding the game's reach and exposure are everything wrong with our great game.

 

[Perth Red]

Really Canterbury Bankstown club giving leg ups to the Bulldogs how dare they....

news ltd investing money in a company they own, how dare they?

 

[Generalzod]

news ltd investing money in a company they own, how dare they?

Mate you can carry on as much as you want there has never been a club given so many leg ups like the Storm...

 

[Perth Red]

Yeh and how much money has the afl invested in The lions in their lifetime? Lol. Of course they go alright, afl give them $25mill a year!

 

[Generalzod]

Yeh and how much money has the afl invested in The lions in their lifetime? Lol. Of course they go alright, afl give them $25mill a year!

Mate. Don’t follow the AFL so I don’t care I don’t even Know who are the grand finalist this year, but seeing that you mentioned it all the money that the Afl has spent in Queensland had they made inroads in Queensland? Like wise you can say that about the NRL and the Storm....(Victoria)

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

That's not WELL behind its essentially on par, and the Lions have a Decade on the Storm.

It is well behind when you factor in that Melbourne has twice as many people as Brisbane.

You'd have to be a bit naive and dogmatic to think the Storm's attendances and membership tally would be the same if they spent the bulk of the last 15 years at the foot of the ladder. The only time Melbourne spent a couple of seasons outside the top 8 was the early 2000s, and their attendances dropped to the 9000s.

Compare that to the Lions, who were getting over 30,000 when they were a bottom 4-8 team during the late 00s. Even when the Suns were introduced, the Lions were still getting higher attendances, around 22,000, despite being a bottom four-eight team.

The Lions' attendances didn't drop below 20,000 until 2014. The lowest they ever got was 16,455 in 2017. To put that into perspective, the highest attendance Melbourne Storm have averaged over a season in Melbourne at that fantastic stadium is 16,104, which was achieved last year.

The Brisbane Lions at their worst, 16,455 in 2017, are still ahead of the Storm at their best, 16,104 in 2019. Let that sink in.

And you think the two teams are even?

I'd hate to see what the attendances will be in Melbourne should they go through a lean period like the Lions.

Brisbane Lions Attendances at the Gabba
https://afltables.com/afl/crowds/brisbanel.html

Melbourne Storm Attendances at at Melbourne Rectangular Stadium
https://afltables.com/rl/crowds/mrs_vn.html

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

news ltd investing money in a company they own, how dare they?

If you don't want to help bankroll Penrith then don't patronise their Leagues Club. Between 98-12 the fans of teams other than the Storm were subsidising them, whether they liked it or not, whenever they subscribed to Foxtel, Daily Telegraph, Courier-Mail or The Australian. From 13-18 it was from Foxtel, NRL Pass and any other revenue source for the NRL. The fact you try to claim moral equivalence between forcing people to subsidise a club and voluntarily doing so proves you don't have a clue.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

No other NRL club is located in AFL heartland.

That's right. The Storm do not have any competition in Melbourne from another NRL club, as they're the only one there. Compare that to Lions and Swans who have rival AwFuL teams within driving distance. Attendances for Lions and Swans are still greater. Add in the numbers for Giants and Suns and it makes the Storm even more pitiful.

To put it on Level footing it needs assistance. The "advantage" is complete bullshit.

They don't recieve any funding over and above other clubs with respect to salary cap.

Mate, you don't have a clue.

Where do you think Melbourne got the money to cheat the cap between 06-10?

Please tell me you're not stupid enough to think "Santa" left it in a big red bag under a Chrissie tree at Storm HQ.

That's the rort that was discovered because a whistleblower alerted the NRL about the breach. For all we know they may have never stopped but got better at covering it up. Even if they weren't cheating the cap, they could have used that extra $4.4M a year on talent scouts, assistant coaches and technology to give them an advantage in spotting the best juniors across the country and speeding up their development. If that's what happened then that's a massive advantage, courtesy of the ARLC. PR and other Storm fans keep saying the success is because of better coaching and training protocol. If that's the case then you cannot get upset when I point out that the money required to hire so many coaches, trainers and talent scouts would be enormous and must come from somewhere. We know where it came from.

In the AFL, they subsidise there expansion teams to the tune of $20M a year, and give them on-field concessions.

Does the funding give them an on-field advantage?

I know the Lions were given extra salary cap in the early 2000s. They played in 4 GFs in a row and won 3 of them. AwFuL took that off them and they spent the next 15 seasons at the foot of the ladder.

Are you starting to see how it works?

Insular fans like who can't see the value of expanding the game's reach and exposure are everything wrong with our great game.

You have no idea and only see what you want to see. Try thinking independently for once.

 

[Canard]

It is well behind when you factor in that Melbourne has twice as many people as Brisbane.

You'd have to be a bit naive and dogmatic to think the Storm's attendances and membership tally would be the same if they spent the bulk of the last 15 years at the foot of the ladder. The only time Melbourne spent a couple of seasons outside the top 8 was the early 2000s, and their attendances dropped to the 9000s.

Compare that to the Lions, who were getting over 30,000 when they were a bottom 4-8 team during the late 00s. Even when the Suns were introduced, the Lions were still getting higher attendances, around 22,000, despite being a bottom four-eight team.

The Lions' attendances didn't drop below 20,000 until 2014. The lowest they ever got was 16,455 in 2017. To put that into perspective, the highest attendance Melbourne Storm have averaged over a season in Melbourne at that fantastic stadium is 16,104, which was achieved last year.

The Brisbane Lions at their worst, 16,455 in 2017, are still ahead of the Storm at their best, 16,104 in 2019. Let that sink in.

And you think the two teams are even?

I'd hate to see what the attendances will be in Melbourne should they go through a lean period like the Lions.

Brisbane Lions Attendances at the Gabba
https://afltables.com/afl/crowds/brisbanel.html

Melbourne Storm Attendances at at Melbourne Rectangular Stadium
https://afltables.com/rl/crowds/mrs_vn.html

There's 10 other AFL teams in Melbourne (and yes Geelong counts as they play games in Melbourne).

The Lions are competing with exactly one NRL team.

The Storm's home crowds are better than NINE other NRL clubs, why are they held to a higher standard than most of the NRL by a deadshit like you?

https://afltables.com/rl/crowds/2019.html

And why do you keep dredging up the Cap stuff, like it's relevant to anything related to the current owners(who aren't News) and has anything to do with a club being in an expansion area.

The value of exposure, corporate sponsors, fan expansion and TV dollars far outweighs the tiny cost.

It's embarrassing that an insular bogan like you is a fellow Cowboys fan.