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Great aticle Sean - on Big Footy too!

RL1908

Bench
Messages
2,717
cant find it on BF

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=719182

...and for the benefit of "Redb" (who seems to be particularly affronted that someone from outside Aust rules dared to offer up some analysis of Aust rules & its history/evolution)...I've never hidden from anybody that my interests are not just RL, but also the history of rugby in the 19th century [ http://jottingsonrugby.com/ ]...given it was the Victorians themselves, fearful of injury, who by their own choice concocted an emasculated form of rugby as their game in 1859, and adopted rules to specifically rid itself of rugby traits (running with and passing the ball), sooner or later someone was going to point out the obvious - that modern Aust rules offers precisely the rugby-like features its founding fathers found repugnant. (And unlike "Redb" I'm not hiding behind a nom de plume when I've got something to say.)

From “The Age” Fed 9 2009…
“All clubs bar one averaged fewer than 1.5 kicks for every handball last year.”

“This distinction is important because in future teams won’t have a single basic game plan, but will employ multiple styles — from run-and-carry with handball to static tempo when circumstances suit.”
http://www.smh.com.au/afl/afl-news/pies-to-kick-old-habit-and-use-more-handball-20091124-j45f.html
 
Last edited:

m0nty

Juniors
Messages
633
It doesn't help your desire to be thought of as an historian, RL1908, to use emotive words like "fearful" or asking if a code can be taken "seriously". A real historian would know that rules like the mark evolved in football to remove the threat of serious injury to players who were still amateur in all codes, with little of the medical advancement enjoyed in sport nowadays.

That reasoning, to support the players who put their bodies on the line, was part of why rugby league formed in the first place, of course. Attacking Australian football for changing its rules to help player welfare is disingenuous by a rugby league historian, because the whole sport of league was founded on giving a better deal to players.
 

RL1908

Bench
Messages
2,717
It doesn't help your desire to be thought of as an historian, RL1908, to use emotive words like "fearful" or asking if a code can be taken "seriously". A real historian would know that rules like the mark evolved in football to remove the threat of serious injury to players who were still amateur in all codes, with little of the medical advancement enjoyed in sport nowadays.

It's not "desire", but thanks for your opinion. Writing a column piece or posting on a blog or forum is entirely different to writing a complete historical analysis.

I can't change what the code's founders in Melbourne said and wrote about their decision and reasoning - "fearful of injury" is what it was. They never pretended it wasn't the reason. Most men at the time saw rugby the we way today see a sport like base jumping - very few men participated in the sport because of fear of injury.

I'm sorry the word "fearful" conjures in your mind that it is a shot at the "manliness" of Aust rules, but it should be read in context - I didn't just say "fearful", I said "fearful of injury" - it is not the same as saying that Aust rules is a game safe for the timid.

A real historian would know that rules like the mark evolved in football to remove the threat of serious injury to players who were still amateur in all codes, with little of the medical advancement enjoyed in sport nowadays.

Not sure what your on about there - the "mark" was not invented by Aust rules. It was in the first written rugby rules in 1845, and was in soccer's first rules (1863), in gridiron and in RL (in the field of play until the late 1960s, and in-goal from 1986 to today). Rugby in the 1850s was a tough sport, but it wasn't completely devoid of rules intended for the safety of players - Aust rules just took that angle further.

My point in the article was that Aust rules has evolved what was intended merely as a safety rule into a celebrated art form - it is what it is - me putting that down in print draws attention to its origins and evolution, but it doesn't change it. When Aust rules' founders in 1859 adopted the mark rule that weren't thinking of the "speccy"!

That reasoning, to support the players who put their bodies on the line, was part of why rugby league formed in the first place, of course. Attacking Australian football for changing its rules to help player welfare is disingenuous by a rugby league historian, because the whole sport of league was founded on giving a better deal to players.

A "better deal" to keep playing the same game is entirely different to emasculating the game into something else.

All my article did was point out that the original intentions of the founders of Aust rules have been lost in the modern game - that running with the ball should be limited to being just enough to kick the ball, and that the ball should be disposed of by dropping or kicking it rather than hand-passing it.

AFL can do what it want with its game - all I did was pointed out the things it once found intolerable (carrying and passing the ball) are now commonplace and treasured.

If my pointing out these issues makes people (both in Aust rules and out) look at the hand-pass, bouncing of the ball and the mark in a different way, then so be it, but all I am doing is bringing back to the public arena things have been said before, long ago.

See also: OUR FOOTBALLERS PLAY RUGBY, NOT VICTORIAN RULES
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,869
It's a great shame that we are losing him and that we won't see him develop into possibly one of the great wingers of all time. The game can't afford to keep him and that is also very sad imo.

Good article, loved the bit about the "mercy rule"!

I love the animosity between NSW and Vic and the two codes, in WA it is generally accepting of all sports, then again I guess none of them are a real risk to the dominance of AFL.
 

Twizzle

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
153,337
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=719182

...and for the benefit of "Redb" (who seems to be particularly affronted that someone from outside Aust rules dared to offer up some analysis of Aust rules & its history/evolution)...I've never hidden from anybody that my interests are not just RL, but also the history of rugby in the 19th century [ http://jottingsonrugby.com/ ]...given it was the Victorians themselves, fearful of injury, who by their own choice concocted an emasculated form of rugby as their game in 1859, and adopted rules to specifically rid itself of rugby traits (running with and passing the ball), sooner or later someone was going to point out the obvious - that modern Aust rules offers precisely the rugby-like features its founding fathers found repugnant. (And unlike "Redb" I'm not hiding behind a nom de plume when I've got something to say.)

many thanks
 

m0nty

Juniors
Messages
633
All my article did was point out that the original intentions of the founders of Aust rules have been lost in the modern game - that running with the ball should be limited to being just enough to kick the ball, and that the ball should be disposed of by dropping or kicking it rather than hand-passing it.

AFL can do what it want with its game - all I did was pointed out the things it once found intolerable (carrying and passing the ball) are now commonplace and treasured.

If my pointing out these issues makes people (both in Aust rules and out) look at the hand-pass, bouncing of the ball and the mark in a different way, then so be it, but all I am doing is bringing back to the public arena things have been said before, long ago.

The founders of rugby league would support Hunt and Folau shifting codes, then, since they set up the sport to maximise earnings by players by shifting football codes. They would be disgusted by the "amateurism" of the current blazer-wearing regime which still carries great echoes with the English RFU of the 19th century. These are strong historical parallels which do not reflect kindly on the modern administration of rugby league.

I could write an article for a newspaper detailing this irony, where the original intentions of the founders of rugby league have been lost in the modern game. It would be small-minded and mealy-mouthed, as is your article. Your additions to the debate are not helpful to either side.
 

RL1908

Bench
Messages
2,717
The founders of rugby league would support Hunt and Folau shifting codes, then, since they set up the sport to maximise earnings by players by shifting football codes.

RL was founded to provide reasonable benefits for playing as well as time lost from work due to injuries or tours, not outright professionalism where a man could live entirely off earnings from playing football. There was no fulltime RL player in the NSWRL premiership until the late 1980s, at the earliest. The VFL-AFL followed a similar principal and timeline.

They would be disgusted by the "amateurism" of the current blazer-wearing regime which still carries great echoes with the English RFU of the 19th century. These are strong historical parallels which do not reflect kindly on the modern administration of rugby league.

Already wrote on that matter back on 9 May 2010:
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/...-its-hard-to-get-them-back-20100508-ukv6.html

I could write an article for a newspaper detailing this irony, where the original intentions of the founders of rugby league have been lost in the modern game. It would be small-minded and mealy-mouthed, as is your article.

You could, but in a cross-code context it would be pointless, as whatever criticism or observations you made they would be exactly the same as found in the VFA-VFL-AFL story, and even worse in RU's story.

Your additions to the debate are not helpful to either side.

A bit hard to have a debate if all views can't be put forward into the public arena.
 

j5o6hn

Juniors
Messages
2,013
Hey there Monty what about using your real name,or are you like the rest of the AFL baggers so far as Sean goes,hes states his opinions under his own name unlike you, Rebd, MichaelC and the rest of the AFL bums on the Roar and Big Footy.
You must let us know when you can convince the editor of a major newspaper to accept any thing you have written as a article, just a bunch of back stabbers who believe the crap pumped out by AFL house,grow a brain son and use it
 

simostorm

Bench
Messages
4,511
no, you are wrong

we should not chase stars.

instead we should have a system that encourages them greatly to stay. but if they dont like it, see ya.

we should not pander to stars and chase them, and thus lose the power we have.

RL has made them stars, and if they turn their back from that, so be it. we should not chase after stars. we should be able to attract them.

lets not go for quick fixes or synthetic markets.

Yep. we shouldnt have to chase them. And the NRL will not chase them.
Which also means. More stars in the future will go. Potentialy Greg Inglis is the next.
 

m0nty

Juniors
Messages
633
Hey there Monty what about using your real name,or are you like the rest of the AFL baggers so far as Sean goes,hes states his opinions under his own name unlike you, Rebd, MichaelC and the rest of the AFL bums on the Roar and Big Footy.
You must let us know when you can convince the editor of a major newspaper to accept any thing you have written as a article, just a bunch of back stabbers who believe the crap pumped out by AFL house,grow a brain son and use it

My last name is Montgomery so I am using my real name. :D

Also I'm a journalist so I've had plenty of things published, some in newspapers.
 
Messages
468
lmao

Paul_180305.jpg
 

bobmar28

Bench
Messages
4,304
Yep he deserved it. As did about 4 others.. I think Izzy played better tho.

He aint worth 6 mil. But if thats what it would have cost to keep him here. I would have had no problem with him gettin it. And i think he should have.

But the NRL isnt up to what the AFL is capable of doing.

The NRL need to come up with something to make sure Greg Inglis doesn't go to AFL.
 

Angry_eel

First Grade
Messages
8,650
Someone who doesnt care about star players leaving the game?

Only in Parramatta hey.

I care when they go to Union. I don't care when they go to AFL, its just fail-whale waiting to happen. Completely different games. Inglis just doesn't have the body type for AFL.
 

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