Greatest EVER Kiwi? Greatest EVER Warrior?

[Shaun Hewitt]

Going off this article here

Experts' view: Greatest ever New Zealand player

The experts at NRL.com have their say on who is the best player to come out of New Zealand.

www.nrl.com

Names of players that were suggested include Benji Marshall, Stacey Jones, RTS, Ruben Wiki, Mark Graham and SBW

Got me thinking really, if you had to name just ONE Kiwi player and ONE Warriors player, who has been the best?

It's so hard. For Kiwis I struggle to split Benji Marshall and Ruben Wiki. I'm going to say Ruben Wiki

Greatest ever Warrior, for me, is a toss between Stacey Jones and Roger. It may be the fresh hype of him leaving, but I'll give it to Roger

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Warriors: Stacey Jones - he was the halfback that led NZ to one of their grand finals and is still probably the best half to pull on a Warriors jersey.

Kiwis: Benji Marshall - won the 2008 World Cup, won the 2010 four nations and won an NRL Premiership.

 

[WellsNZ]

No hesitation on these choices for me:

Kiwis - Benji
Warrior - Stacey

It's a bit of a shame that a lot of younger generation Warriors fans don't get, and didn't get to see, just how good Stace was. If we're not talking about legacy in the Jersey, longevity etc and simply the best to pull the Jersey on, then Ali joins the argument with Stace though.

 

[Beavers Headgear]

Stacey comfortably for the Warriors imo. Matty Johns tells the story of being called to Joeys hotel room the first time he set eyes on Stacey Jones, he told Matty “look at this kid, he plays like me”

Without reading the article, I take it Kiwis that played in the NRL era ? On that basis, Ruben and Benji are hard to split. It still infuriates me that the imbecile Kearney banished him from the Kiwis. I probably lean towards Ruben due to the variety of position he excelled in. Another in this class if not for injury would probably be Foran

Go back before the NRL era and I didn’t see him play but Graham was hugely regarded, Freeman had a massive career, Ridgey was world class, McCracken hugely respected

 

[Matua]

Wow, this is a hard one, there will be guys who were around in the 80s who swear by Mark Graham.

For the modern lot, if you want a consistently great player then I'd go with Jesse Bromwich. IMHO he was a bigger loss for the Kiwis in 2017 than Judas Taumalolo.

But, might be Stacey and Stacey for both teams for me. I would have to do some more thinking on it though.

 

[morningstar]

Stacey, Price & Mannering are the greatest Warriors.

I’d argue Manu is the greatest modern day Kiwi, certainly the most decorated. Was there for 2005, 2008, 2010, 2014 and the threepeat against the Kangaroos.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

Hey hey hey whoa...why are we 6 posts in and only starting to mention Mannering as the greatest Warrior?

To me it's not even close. He is the GOAT. And maybe he isn't as a Kiwi, but he's in the conversation.

As a Warrior, 301 games, captained the 2011 GF team, was POTY in the 2008 run, absolutely held us together from being spooners from 2012-17. To me it's just ridiculously clear cut that he is the greatest Warrior of all time. Probably always will be. Stacey might've had a better highlight reel but he didn't have the longevity nor the consistency.

 

[bad boy bubby]

Not one mention of Hugh McGahan??? He was a fabulous player. The Sorensons were tough as.
The best of them from that era though was Mark Graham, he was bloody awesome.
From the NRL era I always loved watching Stacey play, so I suppose I’d be choosing Graham (Kiwis) and Jones (Warriors).

 

[Bring back John Fifita]

It's a great question.

My process to pick a Kiwi / Warrior comes to thinking of the great players who immediately come to mind, list them - then pick one..

Kiwis

Mark Graham
Hugh McGahan
Olsen Filipaina
Gary Freeman
Tony Iro
Tawera Nikau
Matthew Ridge
Steve Kearney
Stacey Jones
Ruben Wiki
Ali Lautiti
Sonny Bill Williams
Benji Marshall
Manu Vatuvei
Shaun Johnson
Simon Mannering

Many played far more tests than others. A guy like Shaun Johnson sticks out as he was part of teams that won World Cups and games vs Aus when many predecessors didn't. Guys like McGahan n Graham were around when I was a kid - tough as nails and the big time players when you are a kid are always gonna be ones that you remember fondest.

For me - Stacey Jones & Benji Marshall would stand out from a pure quality perspective - and always exciting to watch

But my choice.. '

Olsen Filipaina. I saw him play when I was a kid, so that always sticks out. But also - in an era where we had a very strong Australian team - Olsen was the one Kiwi who always stood out. He was immense. He took on our best, including King Wally Lewis. And regularly came out on top. To pick a player who played for the Black & White who stood out more than anyone else - it's him IMO.


As for Warrior..

Hard to go past Stacey Jones. He's a standout. I'd go through the same process as above for the Warriors but might bore people to sleep. And it's apparent to me he's the guy above all others. But I will say that Ali Lautiti was probably one of the best players I'd seen to that point, especially in the forwards. Such a shame he left the Warriors/NRL too soon. The guy was phenomenal. He was Sonny-Bill Williams before Sonny Bill Williams - but better.

 

[Scott]

Greatest Warrior is Simon Mannering. Stacey Jones a close 2nd.

Greatest Kiwi - struggling to split Mark Graham, Ruben Wiki & Benji Marshall.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

The most talented Warrior of all time was definitely Ali. But we didn't get the most out of him, for whatever reason.

I still don't see the argument for Stacey, unless we're talking highlight reel. Even then, at his peak before he was forced to make a zillion tackles a game, Simon had a beast of an attacking game - could break the line, offload, decent toe, cover the centres or anywhere in the back row, and still never miss one of his 40 tackles. Then from 2012, he had to do all the dirty work that Micheal Luck used to cover, and he was never quite the same on attack.

 

[JJ]

too hard

Hugh McGahan was magnificent for a period... Broadhurst, Graham too... Benji...

Kiwi - I think probably Mark Graham
Warrior - Simon (thought about Price, Manu, Stacey)

 

[Matua]

The most talented Warrior of all time was definitely Ali. But we didn't get the most out of him, for whatever reason.

I still don't see the argument for Stacey, unless we're talking highlight reel. Even then, at his peak before he was forced to make a zillion tackles a game, Simon had a beast of an attacking game - could break the line, offload, decent toe, cover the centres or anywhere in the back row, and still never miss one of his 40 tackles. Then from 2012, he had to do all the dirty work that Micheal Luck used to cover, and he was never quite the same on attack.

WTF? Jones was way more than a highlight reel, and he was still a highlight reel.

I'd argue that Mannering was consistent but not great for most of his career, Stacey was great from day one. Mannering was known as rugby league Reuben* by a lot of my mates.

Longevity on its own isn't better.

*Reuben Thorne.

 

[jaseg]

Yeah.. Stacey was a key part in more of our quality teams than anyone else, surely - and the biggest part in the best season we've had as a club. He's the obvious choice. Mannering is a club great, but the greatest? That's too far.

Same reason I'd go Benji for the Kiwis.

 

[Beavers Headgear]

The most talented Warrior of all time was definitely Ali. But we didn't get the most out of him, for whatever reason.

I still don't see the argument for Stacey, unless we're talking highlight reel. Even then, at his peak before he was forced to make a zillion tackles a game, Simon had a beast of an attacking game - could break the line, offload, decent toe, cover the centres or anywhere in the back row, and still never miss one of his 40 tackles. Then from 2012, he had to do all the dirty work that Micheal Luck used to cover, and he was never quite the same on attack.

Stacey dragged some absolute bludger sides to a respectable level, and was often spoke about among the top few in his position in the game, which is the key position on the park. He played 261 games for the Warriors, correct me I’m wrong here but was the warriors top try scorer for a period of time, took the side to its first grand final, and produced the moment that put them ahead in the 2nd half. Might not have made the 40 tackles game that Simon did, but he had a brilliant passing game, was a top quality support player when the break was made, and an outstanding kicking game

When the opposition looked at the team sheet and saw S Jones, they knew they had their hands full. Simon would save you a game, Stacey would win you a game

 

[Penrose Warrior]

WTF? Jones was way more than a highlight reel, and he was still a highlight reel.

I'd argue that Mannering was consistent but not great for most of his career, Stacey was great from day one. Mannering was known as rugby league Reuben* by a lot of my mates.

Longevity on its own isn't better.

*Reuben Thorne.

No no, I'm not saying Stacey was a highlight reel. I'm saying that I think he has the advantage over Simon in terms of a highlight reel.

That Reuben comparison is so far wide of the mark. It's a little bit laughable.

I could launch into a pages long spiel about Simon, and I might. He's undervalued because he was a no-nonsense, no hype, no BS week-in, week-out gun. And I don't believe it's true that he couldn't win you a game either. He was POTY in 2008, a majorly successful year - he didn't win that for making tackles.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

Stacey dragged some absolute bludger sides to a respectable level, and was often spoke about among the top few in his position in the game, which is the key position on the park. He played 261 games for the Warriors, correct me I’m wrong here but was the warriors top try scorer for a period of time, took the side to its first grand final, and produced the moment that put them ahead in the 2nd half. Might not have made the 40 tackles game that Simon did, but he had a brilliant passing game, was a top quality support player when the break was made, and an outstanding kicking game

When the opposition looked at the team sheet and saw S Jones, they knew they had their hands full. Simon would save you a game, Stacey would win you a game

I get all that, absolutely. Stacey was a gun. But I don't see which parts of this Simon didn't do as well. Simon had it all for his position. Stacey did too. Did Simon lift bludger teams to respectability. Yeah, he did. He kept us from spoons. We don't make the 2018 finals without him.

When the opposition looked at the Warriors from 2013 onwards, they knew they'd have to work a bit harder if Simon Mannering was there. If he wasn't, I'm pretty sure they knew it would be a walk in the park. I remember our winning percentage without him being absolutely dire. Remembering too when people say someone would save you a game, but someone would win it...both result in 2 points.

But hey I fully respect anyone who sees the answer as Stacey, and there's very good reasons. But for me, it's Simon. Ask Ivan Cleary, and he'd say it's Simon too. Ivan speaks as highly as it is possible to do so on Simon and what sort of person and player he was.

 

[Matua]

No no, I'm not saying Stacey was a highlight reel. I'm saying that I think he has the advantage over Simon in terms of a highlight reel.

That Reuben comparison is so far wide of the mark. It's a little bit laughable.

I could launch into a pages long spiel about Simon, and I might. He's undervalued because he was a no-nonsense, no hype, no BS week-in, week-out gun. And I don't believe it's true that he couldn't win you a game either. He was POTY in 2008, a majorly successful year - he didn't win that for making tackles.

Fair enough, but you also said you "don't see the argument for Stacey". This post suggests you do see the argument, but you prefer Simon, that's fine, I'm the opposite.

 

[sup42]

Mark Graham.

Stacey for the Warriors. Without Jones there is no minor premiership.

Today it is rare to watch a Warriors team and think our game breaker could get us back into this twenty behind, Stacey could do that he was so determined and talented.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

Fair enough, but you also said you "don't see the argument for Stacey". This post suggests you do see the argument, but you prefer Simon, that's fine, I'm the opposite.

Yep, very true.