Griffin's tactics are rubbish

[herbert henry1908]

I'm going to stand 100% behind what I've said about Griffin.

I still feel he doesn't have tactical coaching in his game plan , it's simply select & hope. Our form has improved to be sure , but then we've been almost exclusively playing teams below us in recent weeks. Only exceptions being A Broncos team in a slump & a loss to the Sharks.

I'm still not seeing any convincing set plays once we reach the opposition 30 , we're relying on individual brilliance , which is fine but I don't think that's a long term strategy.

People point to the victories as a reason the Cartwright to 5/8 selection was the right call , that's a falicy known as post hoc ergo propter hoc (one thing follows another , therefore the first thing was right) it's a team game & there are many reasons for the victories.

Moylan would've done a better job at 5/8 , a position he's naturally suited to and it would've improved our depth in the halves. Lord knows we have ridiculous depth at fullback. Cartwright would've continued to develop in a position he's likely to be in long term , back row.


If the team continues to improve & griffin doesn't make ridiculous selections I'll withdraw my criticism midway through next year , until then I stand by what I've said.

 

[TheFrog]

Lord knows we have ridiculous depth at fullback.

He might know but I don't think Griffin does, and he's the bloke who picks the team. We have just clinched a place in the finals after being 7/9 just a few weeks back. The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

Griffin has worked out that we can have Moylan playing as a half in attack, and as a fullback in defence. It has worked pretty well.

 

[chrisD]

I'm going to stand 100% behind what I've said about Griffin.

I still feel he doesn't have tactical coaching in his game plan , it's simply select & hope. Our form has improved to be sure , but then we've been almost exclusively playing teams below us in recent weeks. Only exceptions being A Broncos team in a slump & a loss to the Sharks.

I'm still not seeing any convincing set plays once we reach the opposition 30 , we're relying on individual brilliance , which is fine but I don't think that's a long term strategy.

People point to the victories as a reason the Cartwright to 5/8 selection was the right call , that's a falicy known as post hoc ergo propter hoc (one thing follows another , therefore the first thing was right) it's a team game & there are many reasons for the victories.

Moylan would've done a better job at 5/8 , a position he's naturally suited to and it would've improved our depth in the halves. Lord knows we have ridiculous depth at fullback. Cartwright would've continued to develop in a position he's likely to be in long term , back row.


If the team continues to improve & griffin doesn't make ridiculous selections I'll withdraw my criticism midway through next year , until then I stand by what I've said.

Cartwright moves to 5/8, and since increases scoring output and keeps pace with Moylan, who is playing as a second 5/8, to equally lead the team for tries and try assists, with far fewer touches of the ball and with less mistakes, in the team's bright purple patch of scoring form. This shit didn't just happen because it happened, otherwise it could have happened at any other f**king point. The fallacy is your dopey nonsense.

 

[maple_69]

I still think plugging Moylan into 5/8 to partner Cleary when Soward was dropped was the right call at the time. As it stands now, what Griffin has set up,of unconvebtional, is working well and its not the time to be changing.

 

[Pomoz]

ET sooked and didn't even try get his spot back after being dropped. f**k the prick he was awful in NSW cup

You know Umina, I was reading the Tigers forum and they were lamenting his lack of go forward with the ball. Something along the lines of "he gets lots of touches of the ball but does @#$k all with it". His defence was acknowledged though. On Friday he was his usual hard working self in defence but didn't break the line and made one tackle break, ran for 60m and made 60 tackles. Merrin ran for 194m, made 20 tackles, 2 tackle breaks, 1 line break and scored a try. Taylor was on big money and his output doesn't justify it. He needs to do more to be a marquee player.

 

[Pomoz]

Reading these comments about Cartwright, I think we should nickname him "vegemite". You either love him or hate him. In another forum somebody said he had a "shocker" on Friday night. I only assume he was watching a different game than the one we have been commenting on.

To show that us winning could be coincidence with Carty at 5/8th, Herbert has whipped his latin out and mentioned that correlation is no proof of causation and tis true, it also doesn't mean that there isn't a connection though. You just need to look at other factors to try and prove the relationship. When you look at all the other stats around assists, tries, offloads, line breaks and so on, you go 'hang on a minute", this is starting to look like an enormous coincidence or maybe, just maybe the two are related. Of course there are many other factors such as the emergence of Cleary and players running into form, but even so if it looks like a duck, smells like a duck, quacks like a duck..........

 

[mxlegend99]

How could anyone hate Cartwright? Disagreeing on his best position doesn't mean he is hated.

He's a freakish talent with ridiculous confidence.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Cartwright moves to 5/8, and since increases scoring output and keeps pace with Moylan, who is playing as a second 5/8, to equally lead the team for tries and try assists, with far fewer touches of the ball and with less mistakes, in the team's bright purple patch of scoring form. This shit didn't just happen because it happened, otherwise it could have happened at any other f**king point. The fallacy is your dopey nonsense.

Why thanks Chris , I can see why so many people get the sh*ts with you in other threads.


Cartwright is not a long term 5/8 , if it'd been a 2-3 week thing then fine but his development at his normal position has been stymied and we had a better option than him.

To pair a rookie half with a stop gap 5/8 was a rubbish call , the output in attack was because of our opposition more than anything else.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Reading these comments about Cartwright, I think we should nickname him "vegemite". You either love him or hate him. In another forum somebody said he had a "shocker" on Friday night. I only assume he was watching a different game than the one we have been commenting on.

To show that us winning could be coincidence with Carty at 5/8th, Herbert has whipped his latin out and mentioned that correlation is no proof of causation and tis true, it also doesn't mean that there isn't a connection though. You just need to look at other factors to try and prove the relationship. When you look at all the other stats around assists, tries, offloads, line breaks and so on, you go 'hang on a minute", this is starting to look like an enormous coincidence or maybe, just maybe the two are related. Of course there are many other factors such as the emergence of Cleary and players running into form, but even so if it looks like a duck, smells like a duck, quacks like a duck..........

I certainly was hating on Cartwright , great player , huge potential. Just don't think he's a 5/8 long term.

And you can't look at correlation & causation without looking at the opposition we faced , it's a HUGE factor.

We've played the other top 8 teams 10 times this season for 3 victories , 2 of those three victories agains the same team.

when Cartwright has been in the halves we have simply faced a much easier opposition , he's done a good job but I don't think we can read a huge amount into it.

 

[Abacus]

Cartwright is not a long term 5/8 , if it'd been a 2-3 week thing then fine but his development at his normal position has been stymied and we had a better option than him.

Did we really have a better option than Cartwright? I understand the Moylan to 5/8 argument but who was your proposed fullback? Surely not DWZ as he has spent most of the season struggling on the wing.

Perhaps the Cartwright move was to give us the strongest TEAM which can mean players playing out of the preferred/"best" positions?

Cartwright to 5/8 was obviously deemed a better option than bringing in any of the fullback options.

Sitting 7th with 2 weeks to go from where we were, I'm happy to say Griffin got the call right.

 

[martielang]

I have an issue with people claiming every win as 'lucky' or against 'poor sides' but every loss as a major catastrophe proving Griffin is well out of his depth and should be fired immediately....

At the end of the day, his results and decisions have been more than decent so far. The majority of us would of never played Peachey in centre, had JFH in a starting role or even have him in the squad, had Yeo starting and playing 80, picking Cleary at his age etc. etc. It seems every player, commentator, media personality is aware that Griffin wants TMM at 6 when hes fit and playing well, yet the guys on here harp on about it like he has come out and said Carty will be the long term 6 and that's that. As for stifling his development, c'mon really?

He (and Ivan) have put us in a terrific position to be a major force of the next 5 years.

 

[betcats]

Who is claiming they are lucky wins? Outside of the Broncos we have been playing fringe/bottom 8 sides that's just a fact.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Did we really have a better option than Cartwright? I understand the Moylan to 5/8 argument but who was your proposed fullback? Surely not DWZ as he has spent most of the season struggling on the wing.

Perhaps the Cartwright move was to give us the strongest TEAM which can mean players playing out of the preferred/"best" positions?

Cartwright to 5/8 was obviously deemed a better option than bringing in any of the fullback options.

Sitting 7th with 2 weeks to go from where we were, I'm happy to say Griffin got the call right.

Well I would've played DWZ yes , he's more suited to fullback than Cartwright is to 5/8 imo.

Think it could've given him a spark anyway.

 

[herbert henry1908]

I have an issue with people claiming every win as 'lucky' or against 'poor sides' but every loss as a major catastrophe proving Griffin is well out of his depth and should be fired immediately....

My point as to the sides below us was that offensive output should've increased no matter , I'd wager it would've increased under our old halves. The real test for our current line up will come against teams in the 8 , big test this weekend.

 

[Abacus]

Just out of interest, the below table shows that since Round 13 (excluding byes), Panthers are the 3rd best performed team. I know there are differences in draws, origin representation (not that Panthers escaped unscathed this year), etc. Still, almost half a season is a decent sample size.

 

[Abacus]

Well I would've played DWZ yes , he's more suited to fullback than Cartwright is to 5/8 imo.

Think it could've given him a spark anyway.

In the form he was in? You're a braver fan than I am.

 

[herbert henry1908]

In the form he was in? You're a braver fan than I am.

Genuinely feel it was a less risky proposition than a back rower as 5/8 , particularly given that back rower was playing next to an 18yo half.

 

[Abacus]

Genuinely feel it was a less risky proposition than a back rower as 5/8 , particularly given that back rower was playing next to an 18yo half.

Fair enough. I think it comes down to we have differing opinions on the range of DWZ's abilities. Most of the time I'm waiting for his brain explosions - doesn't happen every game but IMO too often for him to be trusted in the spine.

 

[betcats]

Just out of interest, the below table shows that since Round 13 (excluding byes), Panthers are the 3rd best performed team. I know there are differences in draws, origin representation (not that Panthers escaped unscathed this year), etc. Still, almost half a season is a decent sample size.

View attachment 9169

We beat one top 8 team in that time(Brisbane) we won 7 and lost 4. A nice record no doubt but it certainly doesnt feel like we have been the 3rd best performing team.

 

[betcats]

Fair enough. I think it comes down to we have differing opinions on the range of DWZ's abilities. Most of the time I'm waiting for his brain explosions - doesn't happen every game but IMO too often for him to be trusted in the spine.

Bryce has regular brain explosions as well. I counted two behind the back flick passes in the first half yesterday when the game was still close, both resulted in turnovers. Dallin looked really good when he got a few games at FB last season, he is worth another shot imo.