Halves 2021

[Inisai Toga]

Hunt dropping suggests to me that they (Qld selectors) think he’s a hooker and that he’s behind both Friend and Grant in selection choice which is difficult to argue with.As a half he’s behind DCE and again hard to argue.

I would suggest that he’s not a five-eighth as demonstrated on Wed night, yet often suggested and as such we shouldn’t consider him or ‘others‘ whose defence isn’t strong in that position at Saints either.

However, in my opinion he does bring more to the table than Clune at half back and that’s were I believe Griffin will play him.

 

[SnowDragon]

I again go back to the importance of combinations in the halves. Who work together?

Sullivan really impressed me, and I want to see him developed. His youth needs to be taken into account and hence Hook needs to develop him as he sees fit.

Bird has more value at centre as I see it (& he is entered as centre on the dragons team list), possibly also FB or even in the back 3 of the scrum. However, we have a few forwards fitting the same mould in the pack, we have Fegai convincing me he deserves to partner Lomax, and Dufty really impressed me with his development this year. Together with injuries this is why I wouldn’t have gone after Bird, even though I won’t be surprised if he is a great signing. Either way, I’d not put him into the halves since we have so many others.

Norman I’d put into reserves. Not a long term option, out of form. If he kills it in training and in cc, then he can force his way in, at least if other combos aren’t working. I think Hook may start with him, but not me.

Clune. I thought he did ok last year, without being great. Unless his combo with another forces selection, he would be in cc for me, with us knowing he can step up if needed.

Hunt, I’ll go against the grain and say I like him in the halves. May be a better hooker, but that’s not relevant for us when planing for next year (though the option this year was likely the best for us). He is overpaid, but not much we can do about it. Good defence for a half (imho) good running game, needs to improve his consistency in kicking, and needs to form a good partnership in halves (for me that’s with Sullivan).

 

[Gold_Coast Dragon]

I again go back to the importance of combinations in the halves. Who work together?

Sullivan really impressed me, and I want to see him developed. His youth needs to be taken into account and hence Hook needs to develop him as he sees fit.

Bird has more value at centre as I see it (& he is entered as centre on the dragons team list), possibly also FB or even in the back 3 of the scrum. However, we have a few forwards fitting the same mould in the pack, we have Fegai convincing me he deserves to partner Lomax, and Dufty really impressed me with his development this year. Together with injuries this is why I wouldn’t have gone after Bird, even though I won’t be surprised if he is a great signing. Either way, I’d not put him into the halves since we have so many others.

Norman I’d put into reserves. Not a long term option, out of form. If he kills it in training and in cc, then he can force his way in, at least if other combos aren’t working. I think Hook may start with him, but not me.

Clune. I thought he did ok last year, without being great. Unless his combo with another forces selection, he would be in cc for me, with us knowing he can step up if needed.

Hunt, I’ll go against the grain and say I like him in the halves. May be a better hooker, but that’s not relevant for us when planing for next year (though the option this year was likely the best for us). He is overpaid, but not much we can do about it. Good defence for a half (imho) good running game, needs to improve his consistency in kicking, and needs to form a good partnership in halves (for me that’s with Sullivan).

I can't be bothered fact checking but didn't we lose every single game that Hunt played in the 7? Every win we had was when Clune was at 7? Hunt doesn't communicate his plans, no-one is ready for his choices, not even he is. Having game plans fall apart every set really sucks the spirit from the team.

 

[redv13]

I can't be bothered fact checking but didn't we lose every single game that Hunt played in the 7? Every win we had was when Clune was at 7? Hunt doesn't communicate his plans, no-one is ready for his choices, not even he is. Having game plans fall apart every set really sucks the spirit from the team.

Pretty sure your correct re Hunt. I’m willing to give him a chance under Hook and some better game plans. The last 2 years the whole team suffered under the ex goon. New coach may just make the difference

 

[redVinme]

Pretty sure your correct re Hunt. I’m willing to give him a chance under Hook and some better game plans. The last 2 years the whole team suffered under the ex goon. New coach may just make the difference

Only the last 2 years!?

 

[Inisai Toga]

I can't be bothered fact checking but didn't we lose every single game that Hunt played in the 7? Every win we had was when Clune was at 7? Hunt doesn't communicate his plans, no-one is ready for his choices, not even he is. Having game plans fall apart every set really sucks the spirit from the team.

Correlation, not cause and effect! We’ve won with him there before.

 

[Old Timer]

Correlation not cause and effect! We’ve won with him there before.

It’s all about halves putting in that game changing stella / outstanding performance and Hunt simply doesn’t do that.

Yet to take a game by the throat with a commanding performance.

If he hasn’t done it by now it’s simply not in his DNA and at 31 he is yet to kick a FG to limp a team to a victory let alone turn a game in its head and create one.

 

[TruSaint]

Pretty sure Hook will go with Cam at hooker and Hunt at 7.
As a start.

The rest is up to Hunt.

This isnt SOO where there is a plethora of talent to switch around. Cam has earnt his position as hooker and Captain.

I really dont care what Hunt is on pay wise, he needs to earn his position. Cam McInnes is our hooker and as far as I have heard thats where our new coach will have him.

 

[Inisai Toga]

Agree with many (not all) of the comments around Hunt; my point is I believe Griffin will select him at half because he’s currently better than our other options.
I also don’t really care what he’s being paid now as this is now an history lesson. ‘If’ Griffin can provide us with a smarter game plan behind a stronger pack of forwards and thus allow him to play his preferred instincts game, I feel that Hunt still offers something.

 

[Kylez3]

I can't be bothered fact checking but didn't we lose every single game that Hunt played in the 7? Every win we had was when Clune was at 7? Hunt doesn't communicate his plans, no-one is ready for his choices, not even he is. Having game plans fall apart every set really sucks the spirit from the team.

Yep, Hunt is 0/9 in the halves this year whereas Dragons managed to win 7 games with Clune at halfback despite the fact he was inexperienced and playing in a struggling team with certain other spine members trying their best to make him look bad.

Should be Clune and Hunt in the halves next year and I only say that because Griffin will stand by Hunt regardless.

 

[mickeylane]

IMO Hunt needs a dominant 5/8 so he doesn’t need the responsibility of last tackle options all the time - on occasions yes but not each play 4 or 5 - he’s not consistent enough and like someone said previously he does things that his team don’t expect or see coming .

Hunt needs a steam rolling pack consistently rolling forward and he gets the ball off the back of that momentum - Based on this happening week in week out you will see the best of Ben Hunt. I can’t believe no one on this forum is wiling to point the finger to Paul Vaughan this season - the most underperforming prop this year ! He needs a big year not only for us but for his SOO jumper that we lamely gave up! We get 3 props running hard and straight week in week out, 3 edge back rowers busting the edges week in week out then the real Ben Hunt Will stand up and make the difference ... our problem position in this team is 5/8.....that’s the conundrum and not sure who will solve it .....

 

[Drakon]

It’s all about halves putting in that game changing stella / outstanding performance and Hunt simply doesn’t do that.

Yet to take a game by the throat with a commanding performance.

If he hasn’t done it by now it’s simply not in his DNA and at 31 he is yet to kick a FG to limp a team to a victory let alone turn a game in its head and create one.

Stella performance - you mean playing like a girl?! Oh wait you mean stellar performance.

 

[Shaun_Timmins]

Stella performance - you mean playing like a girl?! Oh wait you mean stellar performance.

Playing like a girl? Like Kezzi Apps or Jess Sergis?

 

[Number of the Beath]

In 2020 Clune started 15 games at half-back, of which we won 7. He mostly played well. His timing was sometimes off, but he showed enough to persist with.
Compare and contrast with Hunt, who started 5, of which we won 0.
Hunt will never be anything other than a 14, no matter who he is coached by. You don't exactly see him flourishing in the Qld camp under Bennett, and it's unlikely that Hook is going to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Ditto for Norman.
I don't care how much they're costing us - out with the old, in with the new.
For 2021 Vote 6 Sullivan 7 Clune, with Hunt in jersey #14, helping out off the bench as required. Norman to CC, though ideally he'd be off to Toronto,,,

 

[Inisai Toga]

Personally prefer Hunt over McInnes as Hooker, as I feel he has more creative aspects to his game and also not a fan of McInnes at lock - too small. In saying that however, I’d like to see them end the experimentation ‘swapping thing’ and gain some continuity by leaving Hunt at 7 and McInnes at 9.

Similar feelings with the swapping of our fullbacks, centres and wingers. ‘Utility’ can be great but developing combinations can suffer due to the continual chop and change. E.g. If Max Feagai is a centre, then I’d pick him there, not wing one week and centre the next. Bird’s great utility only adds to this issue further.

Building combinations take time, yet, vital I feel for us towards getting early wins and building team confidence for the first half of 2021.

 

[BLM01]

In 2020 Clune started 15 games at half-back, of which we won 7. He mostly played well. His timing was sometimes off, but he showed enough to persist with.
Compare and contrast with Hunt, who started 5, of which we won 0.
Hunt will never be anything other than a 14, no matter who he is coached by. You don't exactly see him flourishing in the Qld camp under Bennett, and it's unlikely that Hook is going to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Ditto for Norman.
I don't care how much they're costing us - out with the old, in with the new.
For 2021 Vote 6 Sullivan 7 Clune, with Hunt in jersey #14, helping out off the bench as required. Norman to CC, though ideally he'd be off to Toronto,,,

Agree with your theory but Sullivan is not quite ready for 1st grade IMO just yet
Same I believe Ramsay is not either the way wingers play today
Not sure about Feagai he may just handle the physicality
I believe if Saab stays he is ready to be a regular winger with Rav before Ramsay.
Jordan P I love his efforts but does not have enough X-factor for a winger to be a regular 1st grader IMO where Ramsay has but I want him to develop a bit more
Ramsay and Bud need a bit more time playing some reggies next year before elevating them as regulars from then on if form demands it..which I expect it will but not for Round 1

 

[redandwhite4evr]

Personally prefer Hunt over McInnes as Hooker, as I feel he has more creative aspects to his game and also not a fan of McInnes at lock - too small. In saying that however, I’d like to see them end the experimentation ‘swapping thing’ and gain some continuity by leaving Hunt at 7 and McInnes at 9.

Similar feelings with the swapping of our fullbacks, centres and wingers. ‘Utility’ can be great but developing combinations can suffer due to the continual chop and change. E.g. If Max Feagai is a centre, then I’d pick him there, not wing one week and centre the next. Bird’s great utility only adds to this issue further.

Building combinations take time, yet, vital I feel for us towards getting early wins and building team confidence for the first half of 2021.

I admit there are no clear cut solutions to our halves dilemma but to some extent "the tribe (meaning the Qld brains trust- Bennett and Meninga) has spoken. They have dropped Hunt from the 17 for SOO 3.

While Joey Johns irritates me at times, he is dead right when he talks about the value of a "dominant" half. Hunt has never been, and imo, never will be that. He splutters and fires occasionally but not consistently. He has an aversion to running at the line for some reason and his passing and kicking games are iffy. Seems to get panicked and confused about which option to choose and also lacks a field goal skill. I believe he played his best football for us last year coming off the bench at No 9.

We may have to endure some 'licks" in the short-term while Sullivan and Clune build up a combination but they are our future. Hunt and Norman (hopefully gone at the end of 2021 or possibly earlier if one of Possms "deals'' grows legs ) were expensive mistakes we'll just have to learn to live with.

In relation to McInnes, I would just say that Cam Murray is smaller than McInnes and does a great job at 13 at the Rabbitohs.

 

[possm]

Hunt dropping suggests to me that they (Qld selectors) think he’s a hooker and that he’s behind both Friend and Grant in selection choice which is difficult to argue with.As a half he’s behind DCE and again hard to argue.

I would suggest that he’s not a five-eighth as demonstrated on Wed night, yet often suggested and as such we shouldn’t consider him or ‘others‘ whose defence isn’t strong in that position at Saints either.

However, in my opinion he does bring more to the table than Clune at half back and that’s were I believe Griffin will play him.

Given that the Tigers missed out on Grant and JAC, maybe they will take Hunt off our hands. And I would even take one of there under performing forwards of their hands in a swap for Norman.

 

[Inisai Toga]

Given that the Tigers missed out on Grant and JAC, maybe they will take Hunt off our hands. And I would even take one of there under performing forwards of their hands in a swap for Norman.

Maybe...they could have the motivation due to what you outline. Not so sure about Norman. Until convinced Sullivan’s ready I’ll settle for Hunt over our other options.

 

[redandwhite4evr]

Given that the Tigers missed out on Grant and JAC, maybe they will take Hunt off our hands. And I would even take one of there under performing forwards of their hands in a swap for Norman.

An unlikely but desirable outcome would be for Luc to come back as part of this deal. Mary, the major obstacle to Luc's career has gone- a test for Hook's persuasive powers?