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Harlequins/Leneghan - What happens now?

morgan123

Juniors
Messages
74
I've been speaking to a business contact in London today who tells me the future of Harlequins RL is in doubt. It seems that the club were set a 2 year deadline for former owner Ian Leneghan (Now the owner of Wigan) to reduce his majority shareholding from 65% to less than 20%. It seems this deadline has now passed and Leneghan has been unable to sell any/enough of his stake in the club, meaning he still owns 2 Super League clubs, which the RFL have deemed to be unacceptable. No doubt the club's losses and low crowds make it an unattractive proposal for most to take on.

Given that there is no law regarding this that I'm aware of it seems to only organisation who could rule agains Quins on this are the RFL themselves, so it seems as though they are not in immediate danger. They could always just ignore it for the sake of keeping SL in London I assume?

Does anyone know anything more about this issue? I've not seen it in the press since it was mentioned when Leneghan bought Wigan.
 
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Sam_the_man

First Grade
Messages
5,095
It would seem to me to be a silly move by the RFL to move against the Quins. After all this season is now starting to bear fruit in London with the number of London kids now playing the game now into the thosands (a notch over 1000 i believe).
So for the sake of short term pain and long term gain they should allow the Quins to continue as is.
 

bowes

Juniors
Messages
1,320
Yeah given the financial climate and the fact that there are bigger problems elsewhere they should give an extension (or let him sell up a smaller part at a time)
 

Evil Homer

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
7,178
It would seem to me to be a silly move by the RFL to move against the Quins. After all this season is now starting to bear fruit in London with the number of London kids now playing the game now into the thosands (a notch over 1000 i believe).
So for the sake of short term pain and long term gain they should allow the Quins to continue as is.
They will do. This has not even been mentioned in the UK, and this is not the first time the original poster has posted a doom-mongering post.
 

morgan123

Juniors
Messages
74
They will do. This has not even been mentioned in the UK, and this is not the first time the original poster has posted a doom-mongering post.

No, it's all of a second.:roll: You are not very welcoming are you. In the two threads I've started you've not made a single contribution other than to bag me off.

As for doom mongering, Celtic are already gone for all intents and purposes. It will take a minor miracle to save them, and as I mentioned in my much criticised other thread Quins have to be a concern for SL.
 

Evil Homer

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
7,178
I'm not very welcoming to unconstructive threads speculating about the end of clubs with no real evidence or basis. The finances and attendances at Harlequins have to be an issue, but as you said in your original post there has been no mention of any issues surrounding their ownership so why bring it up? Regarding your other point, Celtic have not 'gone', there has not been a single source stating that they have. If you actually want to discuss RL then I'm sure everyone will be very welcoming, but if you want to continue to invent and circle unsubstantiated rumours that clubs are going bust then you will continue to be met with the same response, from me at least.
 

westie

Bench
Messages
3,936
You're a nobber EH. This is a very real issue and discussions on the issue are well underway amongst British fans.
 

westie

Bench
Messages
3,936
Coincidentally now is the RFL deadline and things are getting interesting. Definitely a big issue, very worthy of discussion. As such, and as you know well, it's big talk amongst the poms and anyone bringing it up here is perfectly warranted.
 

bowes

Juniors
Messages
1,320
These issues have been discussed by English fans for years, ie the ones who want any club outside the M62 gone.
Such people are virtually non-existant, they're just invented as a straw man. Most of them just want an end for special treatment for non-heartlands clubs (generally overseas quota exemptions) or even want them to have some special treatment, but don't want to lie to say Crusaders are a success in SL (for example). As it is many people discuss Harlequins crowds (including their fans) as they are worried that crowds of just over 3000 are too low to support a SL club, which is a very real concern. They're not in any immediate risk of folding while they have continued backing

Crusaders on the other hand are to all intents and purposes dying. They will start next season in Wrexham, but unless their new backer has very deep pockets or get someone else rich they won't last much longer. The new Welsh club in C1 is where the future lies in my opinion

There is no real British equivalent to the Australians who want Melbourne out despite them being the best team and getting 12000 to matches (which would be considered a decent crowd in SL). While there was some moaning at the time due to the way their addition was handled Catalans are very much accepted in SL. If the NRL started chopping Sydney teams for teams from places like Darwin that got hammered and got 3500 to matches and planned to move 4 hours away after one season to be half an hour from an existing club excluded but without being in a RL area you would get far far more moaning than there is about Crusaders (I know it would be more than 4 hours in that example, just speaking hypothetically). As it is the NRL won't even expand to places like the Central Coast
 
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Messages
14,139
bullsh*t. There are a hell of a lot of whinging northerners who will never accept any team outside the M62 and they are plain to see any time the likes of Quins or Crusaders run into even the slightest trouble. Catalans were the same but their success has almost completely shut those people up. They are only accepted because the flatcaps haven't got a leg to stand on when criticising them. So they target Quins and Crusaders while ignoring the fact that Salford get rubbish crowds in a rubbish ground and Wakey isn't much better. That's the proof that these flatcaps exist and that their anti-expansion nonsense should be treated with contempt. Fortunately the RFL, the people who matter, don't listen to these ignorant old farts anymore. They know the game has to grow and these clubs are the catalyst for that growth. And if there's nothing worse than people who try to deny that northern England is absolutely teaming with these flatcaps its someone who tries to suggest that it's actually Australia that is full of anti-expansionists. It's complete nonsense. Flatcaps need to be seen for exactly what they are, a blight on the game. These are the morons who have held our game back for too long already. They want to thwart development in London, Wales and France and anywhere else that top-level pro RL might go to. They can deny it all they like but their constant negativity towards only non-M62 clubs at any opportunity proves otherwise.
 

Jankuloski

Juniors
Messages
799
Except London is the capital of England and the largest city, so investing in it has a lot more advantages than going into Darwin. Expansion to CC would be more like a SL team in Sheffield - not really an expansion, but a good moove if it works.

The Crusaders are having a rough time right now, but that's not to say SL should never have a team in Wales. They should be better organised, and find more solid people to back them.

The reality of it is that RL is in trouble in UK and is becoming obscure compared to Union. The only hope I see for that to change is for more teams from out of the heartland to get involved and lift the standard of management and promotion first of all.
 

bowes

Juniors
Messages
1,320
Don't lie. The NRL has just said it doesn't want to expand further and the only team it has in an area that didn't already have a RL basis is Melbourne, whereas SL has Harlequins and Crusaders. A SL side with the success of Melbourne would be almost universally accepted and yet people in Australia still discuss whether they should be dropped. The NRL won't even expand to the Central Coast and has only one side from the whole of Brisbane.

Crusaders are only criticised because they're pure rubbish from top to bottom. Harlequins have some criticism because of their appalling crowds, but there's less people discussing chucking them than there are for Melbourne in Australia.

The main reason British and French expansion clubs fold is people promoting them too soon, and that is the death of Crusaders, when we had a good 2nd tier Welsh side before.

There are people who have a bit of a moan on their club forum about special treatment for expansion clubs, but I've never known anyone say RL should be stopped outside of the M62, never. But there are plenty of people calling for the NRL champions to be chucked out of the NRL

You know nothing of RL in Europe and are just a pig ignorant troll deliberately abusive on our British sites with total ignorance and expecting us on the one hand to copy Australia and on the other expecting us to expand rapidly when the NRL won't even do it slowly.
 
Messages
14,139
Don't lie. The NRL has just said it doesn't want to expand further and the only team it has in an area that didn't already have a RL basis is Melbourne, whereas SL has Harlequins and Crusaders. A SL side with the success of Melbourne would be almost universally accepted and yet people in Australia still discuss whether they should be dropped. The NRL won't even expand to the Central Coast and has only one side from the whole of Brisbane.

Crusaders are only criticised because they're pure rubbish from top to bottom. Harlequins have some criticism because of their appalling crowds, but there's less people discussing chucking them than there are for Melbourne in Australia.

The main reason British and French expansion clubs fold is people promoting them too soon, and that is the death of Crusaders, when we had a good 2nd tier Welsh side before.

There are people who have a bit of a moan on their club forum about special treatment for expansion clubs, but I've never known anyone say RL should be stopped outside of the M62, never. But there are plenty of people calling for the NRL champions to be chucked out of the NRL

You know nothing of RL in Europe and are just a pig ignorant troll deliberately abusive on our British sites with total ignorance and expecting us on the one hand to copy Australia and on the other expecting us to expand rapidly when the NRL won't even do it slowly.
The fact is RL in England has to expand because it is a backward nothing sport derided by the entire nation for its smallness and parochialism. In Australia it is huge, easily the number one game in two of the three biggest states. And yet you can't move for flatcaps who hate the fact that clubs in London and Wales exist in SL ahead of mediocre clubs from nothing northern towns. You only have to look at the fact that flatcaps do nothing but criticise expansion clubs while never ever suggesting how expansion should work without them. These people deny their flatcappery but show no actual evidence of anything else. Have a look at how many threads on English sites are devoted to slandering clubs like Celtic and compare it to threads on Australian sites doing likewise to Melbourne. And not just now but over the last decade. There's the proof. Virtually no one suggests Melbourne shouldn't be in the NRL and almost everyone wants NRL expansion. England is the opposite, except that the RFL, thankfully, can see past the end of its own nose and realises that the only way RL in Britain can be seen as anything other than an insignificant regional oddity is to aggressively push beyond the unfashionable heartlands it currently inhabits. And good luck to them. They're fighting a virtual army of silly old fools who seem to think RL can grow significantly with no SL clubs outside the M62 but in the end intelligence and open-mindedness will win out over ignorance and stupidity and expansion will work. We might have to wait for all the old flatcaps to die, but it will happen.
 

bowes

Juniors
Messages
1,320
Except London is the capital of England and the largest city, so investing in it has a lot more advantages than going into Darwin. Expansion to CC would be more like a SL team in Sheffield - not really an expansion, but a good moove if it works.
Sorry you misunderstood. Crusaders are more like Darwen, Wrexham is about the least logical place to base a SL expansion side, I guess you could say Quins are a less successful version of Melbourne (though with less money behind them), so I think if possible we need to keep them and if that means extending a deadline on the transfer so be it.

The Crusaders are having a rough time right now, but that's not to say SL should never have a team in Wales. They should be better organised, and find more solid people to back them.
Yeah if we have a strong well supported Championship side of majority Welsh players with solid backing applying for SL then of course let them in, noone says don't let a Welsh side in (East Coast Tiger is a troll and invents straw men and is incredibly abusive on our British forums, despite the fact SL does far more than the NRL for expansion). But Crusaders are a shambles from top to bottom. To me a side that has lost its backer, has no ground sorted out (but is expected to move nearly 4 hours from the original location to one 30 minutes from a much better RL club who were left out for them, in a town with no RL whatsoever played and in fact only one amateur team in the whole of North Wales who don't turn up for half their matches and a town with 60,000 population), has only 15 players signed, got half a team deported as illegal immigrants, had a very poor season on the field last year, averaged 3500 (with that certain to drop in Wrexham) and hit financial troubles a few months into their first season in SL and had to be run by an RFL task force after that is a side that people are right to criticise for all those reasons. Yet some ignorant people would still perpetuate the myth that the only reason people criticise them is because they're Welsh, in fact if it were Wakefield or Salford in this trouble people would be far less restrained and would be calling for their expulsion. People criticise clubs in small northern towns yet this is a club in a small northern town smaller than Wakefield or Salford and only slightly bigger than Castleford or Widnes, and a small northern town without any rugby league, yet because it is slightly across an arbitrary border it is seen as okay. Harlequins are closer to Bridgend than Wrexham and Widnes isn't much further and there are no real ties between north and south Wales. Read the Crusaders forum and you'll see people there are 10 times as critical of the club than anyone from elsewhere.

The one good thing about the Crusaders is the juniors and that won't follow them to Wrexham, though will be a good basis for the new Bridgend semi-pro side which is where the future lies IMO. Also the Crusaders were backed by Leighton Samuels who had previously ruined 3 sporting clubs by walking out when he didn't have his own way or instant success and thus people rightly knew it would fail. But knowing something would fail is not remotely the same as wanting it to and anyone who says it is is being dishonest

The reality of it is that RL is in trouble in UK and is becoming obscure compared to Union. The only hope I see for that to change is for more teams from out of the heartland to get involved and lift the standard of management and promotion first of all.
Yes, though Toulouse are the only non-M62 side likely to join SL for the immediate future. The problem is people view it as SL or nothing (due to there being an NRL or nothing feeling in Australia) and it isn't, I would rather they built a basis of more grassroots development and more semi-pro sides than chuck in sides to watch them fold. I live in an area of England with a far larger population than Wales and with lots of big cities and until this year the RFL didn't even appoint a development officer for the whole region. So yes I support expansion very strongly, but it doesn't have to be putting pins on the map in SL as that doesn't work without roots (which Catalans have and Toulouse will have once they sort out their on field performances, there are 10 open age clubs in Wales and 80 in France for comparison)
 
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bowes

Juniors
Messages
1,320
Okay I did say virtually, but even still wow.

I guess these people are so insular they never leave their club forums, as clubs forums tend to be much more conservative than general ones. 90% of the people labelled flatcappers by the expansionutters actually are pro expansion but more cautiously. Would really put things into perspective for them to go on club forums.

I've seen a little opposition to Catalans from people who think each country should have its own league (as in soccer), or people who moan that their club missed out when they came in, but not before people saying they should be chucked out in that way. Of course in an ideal world there would be a good French league but that won't happen, so Catalans and eventually Toulouse in SL is the best way forward.
 

morgan123

Juniors
Messages
74
Quins future in doubt

I know it's the Sun, but it proves I'm not making this up.

Personally I'd solve this mess by kicking Wigan out of SL for breaching the regulations about club ownership and give Quins all their players and season ticket holders. Problem solved:lol:
 

Jankuloski

Juniors
Messages
799
I guess this Lenagan is the one who picks which club he would let go ... I think the RFL will find another way to solve it without the circus.
 

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