Hayne the equal of Kenny

[Poupou Escobar]

Brett Kenny.

He delivered when it counts. In grand finals.

In the one grand final Hayne has played in, he ran for more metres and broke more tackles than the Clive Churchill winner. The fact people were disappointed in his performance shows how much they had come to expect from him.

Also, Parra were underdogs in 2009, being the first team to ever make the grand final from 8th place (having been carried there by Hayne). How many times were Parra underdogs in the grand finals Kenny played in? How many internationals did he have around him?

And every other time he took the field.

Not true. I admit he was great in the 80's but by 1990 he was just another player.

 

[MasterYoda]

A padawan to the master Kenny.

Perhaps one day a master he will become, but for now a padawan with instincts that great they are.

 

[Parra]

In the one grand final Hayne has played in, he ran for more metres and broke more tackles than the Clive Churchill winner. The fact people were disappointed in his performance shows how much they had come to expect from him.

Also, Parra were underdogs in 2009, being the first team to ever make the grand final from 8th place (having been carried there by Hayne). How many times were Parra underdogs in the grand finals Kenny played in? How many internationals did he have around him?



Not true. I admit he was great in the 80's but by 1990 he was just another player.

By 1990 Kenny was setting up the tries, making most of the tackles, signing the autographs, cutting the oranges, sweeping out the sheds, marking the oval and doing whatever else had to be done.


Hayne would like to meet someone as good as Brett Kenny. Let alone be ranked with him.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

By 1990 Kenny was setting up the tries, making most of the tackles, signing the autographs, cutting the oranges, sweeping out the sheds, marking the oval and doing whatever else had to be done.

Fair enough. It's probably unfair to compare anybody to Brett Kenny in 1990.

 

[woddy]

A padawan to the master Kenny.

Perhaps one day a master he will become, but for now a padawan with instincts that great they are.

agree............... I typed my explanation but I couldn't make sense of it ,both great but Bert is better in my memory

 

[Craig Johnston]

i agree that if hayne keeps it up for another 3-4 seasons then the comparisons are valid.
i agree that bert will always be a more all-rounded player, but hayne has ALOT of improvement left in him.
i agree the game is totally different in those era's to be able to compare
i'm just glad that i'm able to witness both players run around for our club, just enjoy it.

 

[1 Eyed TEZZA]

Im not old enough to remember Bert play, but from what i have seen (alot of games, not just the GF's, Origins and tests), Hayne isnt there yet. Kenny seemed to be able to bamboozal the defence easily, too easy. Hayne is explosive, his strength and his quick acceleration is his strengths, Kennys dummy and his ability to change direction quickly is what made him great from what iv seen.

Player that I think Hayne is most like (with high status) is Bob Fulton.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Player that I think Hayne is most like (with high status) is Bob Fulton.

Probably a fair comparison.

But you're underestimating Hayne's footwork. He's like the nippiest little stepper you can think of.. pumped up to 100kg.

He just doesn't use his step as much as the known steppers because he's got so much else. But even in the 110 metre try last week, right after he stepped Lyon in the in-goal, there was another almost imperceptible step (more of a fake before he straightened up) of one of the Manly players coming across in cover. There's a lot about his runs you don't notice until you watch him in slow motion.

When Hayne runs it looks like he's just jogging and people are only pretending to tackle him - like some kind of crappy rugby league movie where the star's never played footy before and the extras have been told not to be too rough on him. The fact that so many people fall off him is in large part down to his footwork - he makes it impossible to get into the right position to make the tackle and so most broken play attempts turn into useless, despairing dives with no power behind them.

 

[yy_cheng]

I still think of Kenny as a more complete footballer than Hayne. I will do until Hayne develops to such a point as to surpass him. To me that means having a "football brain" - not just an attacking one.

Hayne's good, and he's getting better with a long career ahead of him. That's the main thing, not dumping premature accolades on him like Hagan has done.

Hayne is a very intelligent defender. He thinks more than just bringing the man down. He will also try and strip the ball or force it out. He also demonstrated in previous seasons that he is brave, taking on a rampaging Thaiday, and also when chasing runaway players, he will tell other chasers what to do.

Skill wise, I think that Hayne has more skills than Kenny especially in the kicking department. Hayne can chip and chase, kick big hail mary's, drop kicks, 40/20s, attacking kicks.

Kenny could not kick at all. I recall when sterlo retired and Kenny was captain and tried to carry the team. He did not do too well. He tried to add a kicking game to his game but was just not naturally able to.


The only thing why I would say Hayne hasn't surpassed or is not equal to Kenny is that he has still prove himself for the next 5 years to be better.

 

[MasterYoda]

He's like the nippiest little stepper you can think of

No think of chicka can I.

You not can have his children.

Settle in your praise, dispute not his skill, knob his shine not good.

 

[bartman]

By "football brain" do you just mean 'experience'? I'm sure his positional play at fullback will improve the more he's exposed to the diverse situations fullbacks face throughout a match/season/career.

But as far as anticipation and vision, he's already exceptional, and he might never be up there with Kenny (who wasn't as good as Sterling, for example).

Now you're getting it ;-).

But does he have to be, to be as good as Kenny?

To be called as good as Kenny then yes... he has to be as good as Kenny.

As you've said, he may never be as good as Kenny.

Does he have to be better than Kenny at every facet of the game to be as good as him in general?

To be called as good as Kenny, then he has to be as good as Kenny across the balance of all facets of the game. His defence, positioning, and football brain/vision (not to mention composure) are all lacking in comparison to Kenny, hence the claims are premature, imo.

Shouldn't we just look at overall impact on a game, or throughout a season?

In my opinion? No.

People could just say Hayne has more impact in this team than Kenny had among those champion teams. That's quite different to saying Hayne is as good as Kenny.

I think my question is valid - how much better does he need to get? Does he need to get any better at all? What if he only keeps dominating like he does now?

To be better than Kenny, he has to be... better than Kenny. As I've said, lots of improvement needed in defence, positioning, football brain/vision, composure. I hope he gets there, but let's not blow more air up the kids arse until he actually does.

Defensively he'll be lost without Burt there for the next three weeks. Personally, I'm going to tip against us, it's that big a factor - and that big a deficiency in Hayne's overall game to date.

He's the best player in the NRL.

According to some... he definitely is capable of the most impact in the NRL, I'll give him that.

On current form, who's ever been better?

In my opinion at the moment, Kenny. Check out 81-86.

 

[parra-matters]

If hayne continues to improve like he has the last 2 seasons by the time he retires he will not only be the greatest ever Eel but the greatest player the game has ever produced.
But only if he continues on this upward arc.

 

[parra pete]

If hayne continues to improve like he has the last 2 seasons by the time he retires he will not only be the greatest ever Eel but the greatest player the game has ever produced.
But only if he continues on this upward arc.

Gees, that is a big statement Parra-matters. There have been some 'gooduns' over the years..
You left out a couple of words like "of the modern era".
but still great to see your opinion, P-M....

 

[1 Eyed TEZZA]

I think Hayne is at his best when he runs straight, his steps remind me of the stupid ones cutie used to do before he would run straight into players.

Hayne seems to have lost a fair bit of speed lately, Tony Williams and Josh Perry caught him ffs. Bloody annoying when I remember him taking intercepts week after week.

Side steps and footwork are a dime a dozen. ALOT of players have footwork, most players dont have the timing when using it. Some players dont have the necessary strength and/or speed to utilise it. Ben Smith comes to mind, when he was at center he had this silly shimmy thing he used to do to try and stand up his opposite, it never worked. Gasnier was a player that had near perfect footwork, strength was a little lacking, but thats all.

Michael Jennings, Matt Bowen, Preston Campbell, Rhys Wesser, Billy Slater and Brad Fittler had some of the best footwork I have ever seen. Fittler was a freak against a straight line defence, plus he had a footy brain.

Just a side a lil off topic, Krisnan Inu I think should be used like Greg Inglis and should be told to play like him as much as possible. They both have similar attributes. I can see Inu scoring tries just like GI if he gets similar ball that GI does, and has the same ideas of how to attack the line that GI does.

 

[1 Eyed TEZZA]

Hayne is a very intelligent defender. He thinks more than just bringing the man down.

Agree very much, that kick of his that went out on the full was meant to give the side a rest because they were getting hammered. Its decisions like that that tempt me to have him at five eight again. He has a very Darren Lockyer feel about him.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Now you're getting it ;-).

To be called as good as Kenny then yes... he has to be as good as Kenny.

As you've said, he may never be as good as Kenny.

To be called as good as Kenny, then he has to be as good as Kenny across the balance of all facets of the game. His defence, positioning, and football brain/vision (not to mention composure) are all lacking in comparison to Kenny, hence the claims are premature, imo.

I only said he may never have the the footy smarts of Kenny - he's already faster and stronger than him and he kicks better. He also played for Australia and NSW at a younger age.

Hell, the fact he's faster and stronger than Kenny virtually settles it, since the modern game's so much about speed and strength - back when Kenny played plenty of blokes got by on skill (because not all forwards could offload for example, and most players couldn't throw a long pass), smarts (because defences were so disorganised back then there were always opportunities for a player with good vision and anticipation) and toughness (due to lack of interchange it was helpful to have players who could stay out there and tackle with three broken ribs). Not saying Kenny wasn't fast and strong but he did play against plenty of blokes who were either not fast or not strong, and a few blokes who were neither fast nor strong.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Hayne seems to have lost a fair bit of speed lately, Tony Williams and Josh Perry caught him ffs.

They both had about a 20 metre head start on him.

He has a very Darren Lockyer feel about him.

I saw Lockyer kick out on the full once.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

I think Hayne is at his best when he runs straight, his steps remind me of the stupid ones cutie used to do before he would run straight into players.

Like the try he scored against St George in last year's semi-final?

I think he's at his best stepping when players are in front of him, and running straight when gaps are in front of him. Why should he change what works?

 

[yy_cheng]

Agree very much, that kick of his that went out on the full was meant to give the side a rest because they were getting hammered. Its decisions like that that tempt me to have him at five eight again. He has a very Darren Lockyer feel about him.

At 6, you will lose his running game from the back. I don't understand why Burt and Hayne doesn't combine like that more often.

I have seen lots of time Hayne runaway from Burt and Burt runaway from Hayne

 

[yy_cheng]

Agree very much, that kick of his that went out on the full was meant to give the side a rest because they were getting hammered. Its decisions like that that tempt me to have him at five eight again. He has a very Darren Lockyer feel about him.

At 6, you will lose his running game from the back. I don't understand why Burt and Hayne doesn't combine like that more often.

I have seen lots of time Hayne runaway from Burt and Burt runaway from Hayne