Hayne to 6...

[True EEL]

old man

i take your points on board too, and agree to a point that the role of fullback has evolved to a psuedo 5/8, so maybe leaving him at fullback is the best of both worlds

however, i just think that we could possibly go to another level with him at 5/8, i think our attack would be lethal, he has so much time with the ball, can create something out of nothing, is so strong, great long and short kicking game and generally takes good options.....but i do still also contend that his positional play at the back is sometimes lacking

 

[Craig Johnston]

i agree that he will play 6 again once he's mastered the art of chiming in from fullback, but it won't be for another 2 seasons imo. especially not whilst we don't have a replacement fullback banging down the door (please, humble is not ready).

someone like nathan gardner back at the club would go well.

 

[caylo]

old man

i take your points on board too, and agree to a point that the role of fullback has evolved to a psuedo 5/8, so maybe leaving him at fullback is the best of both worlds

however, i just think that we could possibly go to another level with him at 5/8, i think our attack would be lethal, he has so much time with the ball, can create something out of nothing, is so strong, great long and short kicking game and generally takes good options.....but i do still also contend that his positional play at the back is sometimes lacking

I think if has and if we can get a experianced halfback who can run the show, it allows Jarryd to sit back and play the support role (like he did against Nth QLD) or play as a 5-8. At the back he has less defence to do which allows him to roam and pick his moments. I also think being at the back means he can be 3-4kg lighter allowing him to be that little bit lighter on his feet.

 

[SCoops]

Whilst I agree that Hayne would make a great five-eight, he is better off at 1 at present.

He is more damaging in that position. Just think, would Hayne have taken that kick and run 85M to score if he was at 5/8? I think not.

After a kick in being chased down is when the opposition pack is at is most disjointed. This is where Hayne is at his best. Against broken defense.

Leave him at one to work his magic. Let Hayne decide when it is time to move to 5/8.

If this is not done correctly, all you are going to do is piss off one of the best players we have and we will be left with a team that is in upheaval again.

Coops

 

[oldmancraigy]

.....but i do still also contend that his positional play at the back is sometimes lacking

No more 'speculative opinion' on this topic please: hard proof only.

Either put up some evidence in the form of footage of him being way out of position (and comparative footage of someone in position)

OR some sort of statistical proof that shows he is way out of position (Something like Parra giving up lots of tries etc).

If you want to go with hard evidence, this is what we have so far:
1) Parra is the second best defensive team in the competition, and gives up less line breaks per game than anyone else. Our fullback is the man responsible for controlling the defensive line to shut down the linebreak situations.

2) Hayne continues to defuse bombs/ grubbers etc = most tries against us are on the flanks

3) Hayne makes more meters per individual kick return than anyone else in the competition. If he makes more meters returning the ball, then SURELY that means he gets to the ball better than anyone else (ie is in better position) - you cannot tell me it's because teams don't bother chasing him?

If you have any hard facts that prove he is sub-par in the positioning area, I'd love to see it.
But in the end it's just a ridiculous 'anti-Hayne' agenda that Joey Johns starting harping on about before Origin 1 (to justify Gidley's selection at fullback) and that people have been following ever since.


Oh - and DO NOT quote Andersons statement that Hayne could improve in that area. Anderson, being a very composed and dedicated coach believes that all his players can work on their game all the time and continue to improve every area.
His style is to continue to encourage players to better themselves. Doesn't mean he doesn't think they are the best at what they do - just that he wants them to continue to strive for excellence.

 

[lingard]

thanks for the constructive comments lingard.....a welcome change

You implying my comments aren`t normally constructive? :shock:

 

[I bleed blue & gold]

yeh NO!

 

[Forty20]

You implying my comments aren`t normally constructive? :shock:

Perhaps it was in regards to everyone else (including myself) taking the piss out of the thread ;-)

It is nothing against True EEL but these threads have popped up every now and again this year and the general consensus is that in the long run Hayne may evolve into a worthy 5/8 but right now and for the immediate future you are robbing not only Hayne but the entire team of an overall greater output by jamming him into the halves.

He has the deadliest kick return in the league and also does alot of important (and largely unnoticed) work for our forwards when working out of our own 20m. He can't (or at least, shouldn't) be doing that from 5/8.

Plus every game/play/second that teams are worried about Hayne chiming in from fullback is another chance for Robson/Keating/Mateo/Burt to take advantage of their diverted attention. At 5/8 all they need to do is keep sending their forwards at him. Yes he is good enough to tackle them but he will be run ragged for our offence.

 

[Talanexor]

Out of the players you currently have,

1. Hayne
6. K Keating
7. Humble
9. Robson

Is your strongest spine. Mortimer and Matt Keating offer nothing.

 

[Forty20]

Out of the players you currently have,

1. Hayne
6. K Keating
7. Humble
9. Robson

Is your strongest spine. Mortimer and Matt Keating offer nothing.

I honestly think Robson has made the strongest case for the number 7. He keeps it simple but is able to catch and pass, and of late has a decent 5th tackle kicking game. That is all our team needs currently (though we would love alot more!).

1. Hayne
6. Humble (better at least then Mortimer right now)
7. Robson
9/14. K Keating/Mitchell

Parramatta for whatever reason seem to play better football with a two hooker rotation. Both K Keating and Mitchell are sharp off the mark and can work over a retreating defence. Though Mitchell doesn't seem to be in the clubs immediate plans.

 

[mrpwnd]

Poor defense?
You guys probably didn't see the bit where he caught Watts bomb straight off the boot.
Honestly I saw that on the replay again...Just freaky.

 

[barney gumble]

I know if it aint broke, don't fix it.....
but i wouldn't say everything is fixed just yet, just coming together

but i do actually think that DA was ahead of his time playing Hayne at 6 early last year, because he was amazing last night, too the game by the scruff of the neck by playing second receiver.....

so, the real question is, if Parra really want to win the comp should DA do this...?

6. Hayne
7. Robson

these two seem to have a great understanding together
Robson is the steadying influence who has been playing 7 the past two games anyway
they both kick the ball predominantly in the team
Hayne was a dead set freak playing essentially at 6 last night - he took over the game

not sure what role Mortimer would take on - an granted he played ok last night - but i'm sure he could be accomodated elsewhere, can he play fullback? Could Jono Wright (who finally had a dig) play fullback??

thoughts....??

ps. i was convinced of this move throughout the game......before Hayne caught the ball 10 m out from his own line, beat Jennings 3 times on the same blade of grass, beat 2-3 other nuffies and then went the length of the field after being cleared for take-off....that made me wonder do you shift him??

I tend to agree with a lot of what you say and have wondered the same things myself. But all you need to do is look at that try again in the 60th minute against the panthers to realise that he has to stay at fullback. But keep the roving license to move up to the line in attack, because he is an amazing running ball player as well.

 

[yy_cheng]

I tend to agree with a lot of what you say and have wondered the same things myself. But all you need to do is look at that try again in the 60th minute against the panthers to realise that he has to stay at fullback. But keep the roving license to move up to the line in attack, because he is an amazing running ball player as well.

actually the problem is easily fixed.

Hayne still at 1 to do what he is doing.

Now for backup and hanging around for passes like fullbacks do, GET MORTZ TO DO IT !!

He's got nothing else to do in attack !!!.

Basically, Hayne and Mortz needs to blend the fullback and 5/8th role and share it between them.

 

[True EEL]

You implying my comments aren`t normally constructive? :shock:

no, not at all, just a welcome change from the comments that had been received from others on here up until that point, that's all.....

 

[True EEL]

No more 'speculative opinion' on this topic please: hard proof only.

Either put up some evidence in the form of footage of him being way out of position (and comparative footage of someone in position)

OR some sort of statistical proof that shows he is way out of position (Something like Parra giving up lots of tries etc).

If you want to go with hard evidence, this is what we have so far:
1) Parra is the second best defensive team in the competition, and gives up less line breaks per game than anyone else. Our fullback is the man responsible for controlling the defensive line to shut down the linebreak situations.

2) Hayne continues to defuse bombs/ grubbers etc = most tries against us are on the flanks

3) Hayne makes more meters per individual kick return than anyone else in the competition. If he makes more meters returning the ball, then SURELY that means he gets to the ball better than anyone else (ie is in better position) - you cannot tell me it's because teams don't bother chasing him?

If you have any hard facts that prove he is sub-par in the positioning area, I'd love to see it.
But in the end it's just a ridiculous 'anti-Hayne' agenda that Joey Johns starting harping on about before Origin 1 (to justify Gidley's selection at fullback) and that people have been following ever since.


Oh - and DO NOT quote Andersons statement that Hayne could improve in that area. Anderson, being a very composed and dedicated coach believes that all his players can work on their game all the time and continue to improve every area.
His style is to continue to encourage players to better themselves. Doesn't mean he doesn't think they are the best at what they do - just that he wants them to continue to strive for excellence.

look, sorry don't have the time to be sifting through footage, but honestly there are lots of times that Jarryd casually goes to bombs and is much happier to let other people contest them when he should maybe be in there, he did it a couple of times against Penrith the other night

umm, the infamous thing with Eric Grothe early in the year when Grothe gave him a spray - and deservedly so

also in Origin he was slow coming over in positional play a few times....sometimes i think the fact that he is so fast and casual that he thinks he will just get there and sometimes doesn't......

look i love the bloke, but he is too casual about this stuff sometimes....

 

[True EEL]

i know it is easy to be mesmerised by that try he scored the other night

but honestly i was more impressed with the other 3 he set up with ease playing two off the ruck - you know where he took over the game and wrestled it away from Penrith who were 22-0 up......

anyway, no dramas if that is the concensus, at least some decent conversation evolved out of the very derogatory and easy comments that initiated the dialogue in this thread......also, just on that, many people rubbished me for wanting to change things now - yet a lot of people are now ready to bring Humble back into the halves suddenly and have him start - isn't that just as radical as me suggesting Hayne switch??

ps. i know i was openly wrapping Humble a few weeks ago, its just that Robson has really stepped up since then and DA clearly has shown his hand that Humble needs more time......

 

[Hayne Shame]

Its such a shame that all the other players get no credit for the win the other night. Hayne scores one good try and he is the messiah. He thinks he's some kind of god or something these days. Maybe he should start wearing that stupid robe that the Parra Jesus bloke wore. Don't get me wrong I really like the guy (name is simply pointing out that the others get no credit) and he's one of the best fullbacks we have ever had, but give the others credit as well.

 

[Stagger eel]

Its such a shame that all the other players get no credit for the win the other night. Hayne scores one good try and he is the messiah. He thinks he's some kind of god or something these days. Maybe he should start wearing that stupid robe that the Parra Jesus bloke wore. Don't get me wrong I really like the guy (name is simply pointing out that the others get no credit) and he's one of the best fullbacks we have ever had, but give the others credit as well.

well the fact remains he had a hand in just about every try, you could argue that Jono's second one was purely an individual effort however it was probably one of the greatest individual performances since Sterlo's 87 10 out of 10 against the Roosters..

 

[oldmancraigy]

look, sorry don't have the time to be sifting through footage, but honestly there are lots of times that Jarryd casually goes to bombs and is much happier to let other people contest them when he should maybe be in there, he did it a couple of times against Penrith the other night

umm, the infamous thing with Eric Grothe early in the year when Grothe gave him a spray - and deservedly so

also in Origin he was slow coming over in positional play a few times....sometimes i think the fact that he is so fast and casual that he thinks he will just get there and sometimes doesn't......

look i love the bloke, but he is too casual about this stuff sometimes....

Evidence of him not getting to bombs when it is clearly his?

I don't mind him trusting his team mates - that is what makes for a good defensive team --> no surprise that Parra are an elite level defensive team in the games that Hayne has played fullback the last 2 years.

I agree that he looks casual in the way he approaches the game - he looked pretty casual when he stepped 4-5 panthers and ran 80m to score.
He looks pretty casual returning the ball - but he makes more meters per kick return than any other fullback in the entire NRL (for years now).
He looks casual when he tidies up the ball in the in-goal too

But looking casual and playing crap are 2 unrelated things. They MAY go together, but do not of necessity require each other (ie they are mutually independant).

Hayne might look casual, but watch the footage - he's always there......

It's like Hindmarsh - if a winger runs 80m and scores a try and Hindy gets to him 2m out from the line, but misses the tackle, was Hindy crap?
No, he's a freak that he's even in a position to make a play.

Sometimes Hayne is across in Grothe's corner trying to tidy up a kick in behind that he really has no business being there to clean up. A try might get scored and the 'experts' say "bad positioning" - which is crap because it's a sensational effort even to be in the picture frame.

Just take some time watching his positioning behind the ruck and then ask yourself how come Parra are one of the best defensive teams in the league with him at fullback?

If he was so badly positioned as people pretend, then surely it would be as easy as 'kick behind, score' - OR we would be seeing Burt/ Inu doing all the clean up work?
But they don't, and Hayne continues to make more meters per kick return than anyone else in the entire NRL. You just can't do that if you're not getting to the ball in plenty of time.


I'm not having a dig at you TrueEel - just having a dig at the fiction. In the end the only reason people believe it is because they think 'well wouldn't he be Aussie fullback if he was well positioned defensively? Wouldn't he have been NSW FB for Origin I?'

Well, yes he should be....

 

[Joely01]

This is a joke, another hayne to five eigth thread, get over this stupid idea if you want our team to go any good leave him in his BEST position....... FULLBACK