Honest my ass !!!!!!!!!!

[Willow]

"So why is it not surprising that most of the complaining here is coming from people who vote Labor regardless?"
Quite incorrect. Its true that a number of people are very critical of the current government butfrom what I can see, a minority are committed Labor voters. I'm sure a number of people who voted Liberal are just a appalled by the current scandals as a number ofLabor voters.

"How can anyone just vote for one party their whole life?"
From that we can assume that you're another swinging voter? IMO,being forced to vote against our willis perhaps the major cause of this one party attitude that you are complaining about.

"...the Labor party so bedazzlingthat they seem to have people that can't not vote for them? It's like people are obsessed with them."

Time to cut the crap I reckon. Lets face it, this voting for one party stuffis hardly the exclusive domain of Labor voters. Surely, that much is obvious.

 

[Johnsy]

If some people cant admit that the current gov has F&*$#D upp big time, it does not say too much about their reasoning (how protective can one be), and we are talking about the current gov, not 10 years ago not 20 or even 30. The now is relevant.
Johnsy

 

[imported_feral dragon]

Well said Johnsy
This IS a current situation.
If people here want to bury their collective heads in the sand than they are nothing less than idiots.
Take the time folks and start reading current news reports by noted political reporters e.g. Barry Toohey from the S.M.H. the editorials from the major News papers e.g the Australian, Courier Mail , S.M.H , Melbourne Age or any major news paper(not tabloid) from your capital city.
At this point in time most of the reporting is concerned with CHOGM but as politics via parliment comes back on line you poor deluded fools are going to start to realise that with all that has been done by the Liberal Party is going to come out big time AND is going to possibly lead to another election with in the next 12 months.
Certainly Honest John Coward will be put in the position where by he will retire from politics and his right hand man in Costello has been caught santioning shonky money deals that has cost the country billions of dollars and A f**kING INTEREST BILL THAT A 12 YEAR OLDS GRAND KIDS ARE STILL GOING TO BE PAYING FOR.
THis is not liberal bashing this is all about OUR country having a decent govt.A govt.that if it loses money it is because they are having a go and not just having a punt.

 

[imported_feral dragon]

By the way folks if you have a desire to reply remember ill in formed and mis informed opinions will be treated with the contempt that they deserve.
For all your information try newsonline.com and go to the Australian news papers and start reading and if you are still struglling look in the archives going back approx 8 days and all will be revealed to those who have any concern for OUR nation.

 

[ozbash]

yea,well, i reckon you should give pauline another chance.....

 

[legend]

To all the militant left, I agree that Howard has been weak in the G.G issue and the G.G should have enough dignity to resign from his post as his past actions will forever condemn him in public life. Even prostitutes and money scandals ease over time, but a child abuse case will always be at the forefront of the collective public conscience.

Howard has shown he is no better or worse than the average politician but these issues have come at the start of his third term and an election is still some way off and the party will recover in time to take a fourth term because to be blunt, the Labour party are bigger idiots than the current govt and there is no way Crean will be our next PM. He does'nt have the backbone for the hard decisions and like his predecessor, he comes across as weak and I don't think the voting public take him seriously.

Labour will also lose the support of the democrats as they are totally irrelevant to Australian politics these days with their leader preferring to jetset around the world or take to a leisurely ride atop of a float for the Mardi Gra instaed of being with the party at crucial times, i.e the S.A election. They, as a party, will be lucky to see the next election and if so, their numbers will dwindle and that will flow on to the preference votes that Labour currently enjoy, no longer being able to provide a safety net.

The last determining factor is a country that has all states governed by Labour, will almost definitely not have a federal Labour govt either. The state govt's are showing how inept they andaredoing a disgraceful job in NSW. The only thin keeping them in power is the State Liberal Party.

 

[Johnsy]

Legend
"I agree that Howard has been weak in the G.G issue and the G.G should have enough dignity to resign from his post as his past actions will forever condemn him in public life. "
Well why isnt Johnny being a true "leader" and make the hard decisipon and do what is right.
"Howard has shown he is no better or worse than the average politician but these issues have come at the start of his third term and an election is still some way off and the party will recover in time to take a fourth term because to be blunt, the Labour party are bigger idiots than the current govt"
Why the need to defend him to the hilt if he is no worse than anyother pollie, and yet you have the audacity to suggest that he does not care because he is some way off the next election. But in the same breath Labor party arre idiots, yet Johnny is just the same as all pollies, well said Legend.

"They, as a party, will be lucky to see the next election and if so, their numbers will dwindle and that will flow on to the preference votes that Labour currently enjoy, no longer being able to provide a safety net." Please inform me if I am wrong but the Liberals rely on the "deal" they have with the nationals, in the form of a co-alition, how many elections would they win as a single entity?

"The last determining factor is a country that has all states governed by Labour, will almost definitely not have a federal Labour govt either. The state govt's are showing how inept they and are doing a disgraceful job in NSW. The only thin keeping them in power is the State Liberal Party."
This is a classic, that will ring in my ears forever, the only reason the Liberals are in power is because Labor govern in all states, legend this comment borders on the ridiculous. Afterall that has happened I am amazed that you still feel the need to defend our prime minister. Please forgive my contempt for you leadership lecture, when that "littleman" becomes a leader then I will listen with open ears. How can a leader blatanly lie and quite happily let other ministers lie to the parliment and the Australian public, THEIR constituants!!!! The man makes me sick.
Johnsy

 

[legend]

Johnsy, to say I expected this type of response from you was a massive understatement.

Please tell me where in my last post I have defended the actions of John Howard or the Libs in any way shape or form? I have'nt.It is painfully obvious only one of us can hold a constructive debate about these issues and we have been over this before with you throwing your personal insults to all who don't agree with you. By ridiculing Labour I am not defending the current Govt, merely expressing my views as you have done, without the insults. I also never said Howard did'nt care, I was suggesting the Australian voting publice were/are very fickle and the majority will have forgotten by the time the next election rolls around.

As for NSW, Labour are screwing the public royally with their taxes. They are making about 6 million a day out of land stamp dutybut our roads are in a state of disrepair. They are a disgrace and as the Labour party have been in power since 95, I hold them responsible. If the Libs had a decent leader or any party had a decent leader, they would win. It's a case of better the devil you know.

Johnsy, your personal biases are affecting your attempts to debate rationally. Badly! You make out the Labour party have never sinned in their life and every evil in the world is a direct result of John Howard and his party. Get your hand off it mate.

 

[Cronulla_Mania]

I partially agree with u there Legend, as i said before, there are people in here with only 1 eye open. Honestly, there are some people in here who have never been able to acknowledge ONE good thing that the liberals have done. And on the other hand, not been able to acknowledge the mistakes of the labor party. Stamp Duty, now ain't that a grand idea? Its a farce...

I implore a few in here to at least be a bit more balanced. I've acknowledged the crap of the liberal party as well as the crap of the labor party. To think that one party is heaven sent is laughable...

Moffo.

 

[Johnsy]

Personal insults, please point out to me where in my last post I hurled an insult your way???
If you dont see your words as defense of the gov then fine, its just an opinion. All I did was point out my perceived weakness in your post there is no personal insults there Legend. If I am able to read in a manner that bares true, There was only one person who "attempted" to hurl an insult. If you would car to read over my posts and this one you will see that I have said that the GG's actions were above any party line, and I have also may times openly stated that Labor have made mistakes. If you really think that I "and every evil in the world is a direct result of John Howard and his party" you do need to grow up and have a good hard look at what objectivity you do possess. As you so aptly put it Legend, get your hand off it mate !!
Johns

 

[imported_feral dragon]

Johnsy
Sorry mate but I just reread your post and you did insult Legend.
Mate if any one told me I was defending Coward I'd be insulted too.
Legend give your self an upper cut you're being a goose and a thin skinned one at that.
Like I said in an earlier post do your home work via the the many sources available and you will find that the political authors that regularly report inan unbiasedmanner are starting to see who they are really dealing with and it doesn't look good for the govt.

 

[legend]

Feral and Johnsy, I don't know if what you suffer from is a educational disorder, but I am concerned. Agsin, where in my post did I defend John Howard? If you take the time to read the whole post and not what you see as offensive to your leftist attitudes, you will see I have in this post never defended John Howard or the G.G or their actions. If anything, I was critical of their actions, not supportive.

I also gave my unbiased view of Labour and I think this is what drives your hostility. I have my views and most know what they are but if the govt is doing a bad job I am the first to agree. And I do agree with you on this point, just not all points. Is that ok?

"Howard has shown he is no better or worse than the average politician" If you two can view this as a defence of John Howard then you are in need of serious help.

This still all reeks of a failure to accept the umpires decision. You lefties certainly are a touchy lot if you don't get your own way. The govt was democratically elected by the people with an increased majority in the last election and although they have been plagued by the G.G issue, I still have'nt seen Crean really put Howard away on this one and while ever you have a weak opposition, the govt of the day will reign supreme. The Libs learnt this lesson throughout the late eighties and early nineties.

Anyway, regardless of which govt currently is in power, it is the job of the opposition to sling mud and every govt is plagued by scandals, not just the currentone.

 

[Cronulla_Mania]

"Costello has been caught santioning shonky money deals that has cost the country billions of dollars and A f**kING INTEREST BILL THAT A 12 YEAR OLDS GRAND KIDS ARE STILL GOING TO BE PAYING FOR."

You don't understand the situation, do u?Let me clear it up, the Gov't lost billions of dollars hedging on the future value of the Aus currency. FUTURE VALUE let me remind everyone. Now, unless u can tell me the value of the Australian dollar in 2007, how the hell can u say what the amount of money lost is? If the Aus dollar goes back up to 70c in the future, than the hedging may well be beneficial on thehuge amountsthat is stillCURRENTLY invested(it needed to be 65c + for it to be profitable). From what i UNDERSTAND, the deals were made in 1997 on a 10yr basis....

"The forex program had returned a surplus each year until 1996/97, but returns became patchier for the next few years until the two massive unrealised losses posted in 1999/00 and 2000/01".

Oh no, are you telling me that labor gambled on the forex program as well???????? lol lol lol Shock horror! U call them all gambling bastards, but guess what, they did the same thing. And that is straight off a website, so u can quote that one. Were they not punting themselves?? The libs come out and make an unexpected loss, and all the people come out of the woodwork and crucify them. They invested the money on the knowledge that it had been a successful program for many years. Damn, something unexpected happened, they made a mistake for f**ks sake. Sorry, we all are not perfect on this Earth. Believe it or not, people make mistakes.

But seeing its a labor apologist day, i guess we should all stand up and forgive labor for jacking interest rates to 18% and making ridiculous comments such as the 'recession we had to have'. Well, going off the current scene, our no1 trading partner (Japan) is currently in a huge recession. So is most of Asia, America and a multitude of economies throughout the world. Do we have every right to be in a recession?? Well yes. But hold on, i look up a website and it tells me we are not in a recession. Go figure, actually, go comprehend what the difference is. Take in the wider picture, of how low interest rates have invigorated the economy in all sectors like it has never done before (retail,housing, etc etc). Its a big circle, business expenditure encourages jobs, more money, more spending, round we go again. Its a simple theory, lost on many...low interest rates is the greatest thing to have happened to the Australian economy

Moffo.

 

[Willow]

The Governer General has lost the support of a number of Community based organisations of which he is a patron of. He even has his number one ticket holder status under threat with some AFL club.
But it is the charities turning their backs on the GG which has him most concerned.
We have to remember that these are largely self funded organisations which rely little on government assistance and rely heavily on public donations. In short, they respond directly to public sentiment.
Ifthe community can tell Hollingsworth to push off, then why doesn't the PM?

The PM said in a radio interview this morning that he will not sack the GG. He indicated that the GG by being appointed by the PM was therefore not entirely accountable as say an elected poltician would be. Then what are we doing such a system? Surely mechanisms should be put in place to make the head of state publicly accountable...shouldnt they?

All in all, this is serving Peter Costello well. He is being shielded from the spot light by CHOGM, Hollingsworth and lately, police vehicles crushing turtles on Coolum beach of all things.
One thing that amazes me about Costello's mismanagement of public funds (about $6 Billion + lost) is that he took on the debt for the investments and had the interest rate set in US Dollars. So the interest rate was effectively doubled for the Australian investment.
Its quite extraordinary how the treasurer has treated other people's money.
Make no bones about this...it is a financial disarster. I dread to think of the cut backs in the health and education which we are going to endure just to pay for this monumental cock up.

I sincerely hope this gets more publicity and is properly scrutinised (without diversions!) by the time parliament next meets.

 

[Cronulla_Mania]

Well www.news.com.au said the debt was 'approaching' 5b whereas www.ninemsn.com.au said it was near 3b with potential for another 1.2b loss. Either way, it ain't 6billion plus.

Just today, the dollar has broken through 52c, suggesting that is may finally be moving up from its extraordinary lows of 47c last year. The way i understand it, some of the 'punts' are still current, and are reliant on the future movements of the $A dollar.

Despite all this, continuing on my earlier theme of the benefits of low interest rates, today it was released that retail trade today rose for the 8th successive time. Not a bad effort given the climate of the last 8 months. Wonder what would've been the result if we had 18% interest rates

Moffo.

 

[Johnsy]

Legend lets starighten a few things out.
With your original comment, I expected a rsponse like this, doesn't that tell you something in itself?
When I talk about your defence of the gov, this stems from your previous posts on this same topic, and yes your tone has not changed. Why no response to me point about the ultimate deal re: the coalition? Let me guess a spin doctors memory gone bad?

I also gave my unbiased view of Labour and I think this is what drives your hostility. I have my views and most know what they are but if the govt is doing a bad job I am the first to agree. And I do agree with you on this point, just not all points. Is that ok?

Yes that is fine, I just tend to disagree with sme points, and I believe in those points with a passion. There is no hostility to you because of your views, this comment says alot about your mind set. I am quite happy to acceptthe umpires decision, I dont have to be happy about it, surely even an elightened person such as yourself ca distinguish between the two.

Anyway, regardless of which govt currently is in power, it is the job of the opposition to sling mud and every govt is plagued by scandals, not just the currentone.

Thats correct and I have said the same thing many times, but using the "its happened before" defense is as weak as piss. What type of country will we become if we all have the ideals of, well it has been done before, therefore its ok. How about doing better than any previous administration, or is just doing the same enough for you?

Moffo, are you still trying to blame a Liberal bad deecision on Labors previous policy?
What about the surplus of the last 3 or so budgets?? If this is your reasoning behind the legitimacy of the gamble then it does show your true understanding of the political climate in this country.

Johnsy

 

[Willow]

MFC:
Do I sense an attempt to discredit my last post with these figures you have produced?
I heard $6 Billion on the ABC during an interview with an some analytical type...my apologies for not paying more attention or asking for a transcript of the interview...in retrospect, I can see it might have been neccessary.
But ifit makes you feel better to say $5 Billion, or even $3 billion, then thats fine...
...I'm sure out mate Peter Costello would agree when I say, with a nudge and a wink,'whats a couple of billion bucks between mates. eh?'
Personally, I would have lost count after the first 2 billion as well so we can hardly blame the media for making it up as they go along.

"Just today, the dollar has broken through 52c, suggesting that is may finally be moving up from its extraordinary lows of 47c last year. The way i understand it, some of the 'punts' are still current, and are reliant on the future movements of the $A dollar."
Sure, but what in tarnation has this got to with the treasurer buying loans which are fixed in US interest rates? Blind freddy can tell you that its not a wise investment when those conditions are attached. To be honest, I'm as surprised as anyone that a conservative politician could be so erratic with public money. I expected more from the Liberals who in the past were very tight fisted when it came to expenditure.
Still, its entirely up to youif you wish to defend this.

Butthis has absolutely nothing to with the old domesticinterest rates. I mean when were domestic rates at 18% - has it been more than a decade? What relevance has this to the current issues? I enjoy history as well Moffo, but there comes a time when we have to stop living in the past.

By continually raising issues which are old as the hills, your claim thatyou holdunbiasedpolitical viewsis being taken to task. When I read your posts, I do not see someone talking from the lofty position of open-mindedness.
Please dont get me wrong, if you want to be a dyed-in-the-wool conservative voter, this is fine by me.I can understand theanti-Labor rhetoric and dragging up of ancient history but I would appreciate it moreif we cut the crap.

 

[Johnsy]

Legend

I for one am starting to get sick of this to and froing, what are we hoping to achieve?

As we once stated in an almost identical "discussion" lets drop it, only 2 weeks to go and then we will have something to talk about.

Johnsy

 

[Cronulla_Mania]

" lofty position of open-mindedness"

LOL. All i said was that i have acknowledged the sins of both sides in both the past and present. Something that quite a few people in here have been unable to do.

"I expected more from the Liberals who in the past were very tight fisted when it came to expenditure"

Its my believe mate that you are contradicting yourself here. You tell me to stop living in the past and then u dredge out 'historical characteristics' of the liberal party. Sort of defeats the purpose

I know, its still a big loss (that is undeniable), but 3bn is a lot different to 6bn. Who knows what figure is right, its amazing how every media agency can come up with a different figure. The ABC came up with the largest figure though...what a surprise!

Look, i dont know what we will ever solve from this argument. We got people clearly sitting on one side of the fence, not even being willing to acknowledge the flip side of the argument. Turns discussion into lecture.

Moffo.

 

[Cronulla_Mania]

Johnsy, labor gambled while they were running defecits as well. It had been a successful policy for years, consequently that makes the losses of 1999 and 2000 unexpected in my view. The surpluses of the last few years have primarily been used to trim off public debt and get the overall foreign debt back to a managable level.

Hell, they made a mistake. That is glaringly obvious. I don't know what ramming it down peoples throats for 60 posts will achieve though. No one has even argued this point, they blundered. But lets put it in a historical context where labor have also blundered big time in the past. Has a fed gov't ever been sacked because of a financial blunder?? I think not....Or at least i hope not lol

Cheers,

Moffo.