How can a JUMPING system be implemented for next version?

[lionmaul]

I know this may belong in the new ideas for next version thread, but I thought it might need a thread of it own due to the amount of requests for it for next version. If I am incorrect, then please move it to that request thread.

JUMPING AND DIVING was one of the most, obvious things missing from this game that is a huge part of Rugby league. I imagine that in order to add jumping for it to be effective and fair, it would need a tremendous amount of time and animation in order for it to work properly, so I understand why the decision to not add jumping the first time out has been made. However, this is the feature that I most look forward to in the next version. What are some ideas out there for how jumping could be added.

First of in order to save button configuration, I believe jumping and diving can be achieved by the same button or button set. Depending on the location of the ball, you either jump or dive.
I believe jumping is handled fairly well in such games as Madden 2004, and Nfl 2k4. The aggression system already in place would work excellent with a jumping system in Rugby League and could even add to some of those other jumping systems. The factors that should take effect in jumping and catching or knocking are:
1. A players leaping ability
2. Timing
3. A players catching ability
4. And the amount of effort that goes into it = Aggression system
5. A players height

I believe adding a few elements to the jumping such as Aggression and Dangerous Jumping and the ability to knock the ball down, out or back would create a very entertaning jumping system.

There could be three different, types of Jumps:
1. Jumping and trying to catch the ball.
2. Jumping and trying to knock the ball out or down or back.
3. Jumping and trying to get away with a foul, to try and not allow your opponent to catch the ball. An aggressive Jump.

All these types of jumping could be implemented with the current system the Nrl uses to handle tackles, aggression, timing, and type.

1. Jumping and trying to catch the ball:
This would obviously be the hardest to pull of, on both defense and offense and would have it advantages if successful.

2. Jumping and trying to knock the ball out, down, or back:.
This would work differently on offense then on defense but it would be easier to execute then catching.
On offense: You would attempt to knock the ball back towards one of your teammates, keeping the ball alive,(of course you would not do this if you have a few tackles left or if you were in the try zone) obviously some knock ons may occur in the process.
On defense: This would be most important in the try zone, in order to decrease your chances of your opponent catching the ball you would try to knock it out of bounds or just out of catch able range. Again, knock ons may occur in process.

3. Jumping and trying to get away with a foul, to try and not allow your opponent to catch the ball. An aggressive Jump:
This could be used like and with the high tackle button, this attempt would be the best chances of completing and could work similar on defense then on offense, you would try to push off or something similar in the air, to either on defense, catch or spoil the offenses catch, or on offense catch the ball. This would be the most successful but you could be penalized for it, just like the high tackle.

Another element that could be added to increase chances of catching is something I am going to call "THE BULLSEYE JUMPING SYSTEM" something that if implemented, MARIO I WOULD NOT MIND AND WANT ANYTHING IF YOU END UP USING IT AND CALLING IT THAT. Being a future alpha or beta outside tester fort the next version would be enough payment. : , No but realistically speaking: This is what it is:
A current problem in catching the ball in the current game is that you are not sure where it is going to land. To solve this "THE BULLSEYE JUMPING OR DIVING SYSTEM" would place a 3 color coded round target on the ground the largest being the outside color then second largest next color in and finally a small bullseye. Obviously your chances of catching the ball would increase if you get closes to the bullseye, along with the the other factors I have mentioned before. Ideally it would be great if the visual element of this could be an option, if you want it more challenging then you could turn it off and the shadow of the ball could replace the bullseye and then an invicible target would be in place.
1. A players leaping ability
2. Timing
3. A players catching ability
4. And the amount of effort that goes into it = Aggression system
5. A players height
All these factors put togehther would in my eyes put together a very fun and exciting jumping and diving system.
6.BULLSEYE JUMPING SYSTEM
ALL these things I went over would work well with diving as well, again the position of the ball would be the difference between a dive and a Jump.

I believe the key to jumping working well in this game will be ANIMATION, and if it is any thing like the way the tackling system and animation was handled, with the amount of quantities and variety it has, Jumping would add a whole new dimension and exciting element to the game.

In any case, I cannot wait to see what the future Rugby League game will
have in store for us.

any other ideas please list, or let me know what you think about this system.

Cheers and Salu
PS. Being able to kick the ball while loose on the ground, is another element I would trully like to see in the next game. And this feature would really complement the new diving system. I believe Mario(Do not hold me to this) may have said that this feature almost made it in the current game so hopefully it will be in the next version.

 

[TA'S Barmy Army]

do you actually know anything about rugby league?

to me it seems you are getting your ideas mixed up with American football!

 

[lionmaul]

do you actually know anything about rugby league?

to me it seems you are getting your ideas mixed up with American football!

Can you please explain to me, what I am missing. Maybe I am not a League expert but I sure have watched enough games to realise that jumping and catching the ball, is a very big aspect league. And it is a strategy that is used many times. I don't know what would be the best system to use for jumping, but instead of making smart arse remarks maybe you could come up with a better system or inform where I am wrong. I am willing to learn. ;-)
Cheers and Salu

 

[TA'S Barmy Army]

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

i just don't think that jumping is one of the most important parts of rugby league, that is probably tackling.

 

[lionmaul]

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

i just don't think that jumping is one of the most important parts of rugby league, that is probably tackling.

I never said that jumping was the most important, I said one of the most important. Sure tackling is probably the most important, and if you have played the game you will see that SIDHE has captured the feel of league tackling fairly well and I am sure that they will most likely add even more tackling animation for the next version. I just think jumping and diving are fun elements that can be added to this already addictive game. And if you don't think that jumping and diving are important in rugby league then take any game and count how many times they jump or dive for a ball in the game, and I sure you will see it countless of times not to mention how many tries are scored with players diving on grubbers for a try.
cheers and salu

 

[TA'S Barmy Army]

yeah but the ideas of jumping to knock the ball back and out of peoples hands sounds a bit too 'american football' to me

 

[ghoti]

Mate, it's not too American football. 7 times out of 10 a player knocks the ball backwards in the NRL...particularly Jason Moodie who's an idiot...he'd rather knock the ball back than catch the thing.

I think your system will work well lionmaul. To knock the ball backwards, you could tap the right analog stick in the direction you want to bat the ball...this would work well.

It's a tough system to get right, but if SIDHE manae it, it would be excellent.

 

[umosay]

hmmm for the amount of bombs being put up now days there is loads of jumping

 

[Changa]

I reckon a dive off the ball in-goals would be more useful than jumpin such as diving on a grubber in goals ratherer than picking it up and scoring(without sliding out)though itd make the game so much better if they had both.

 

[Goleel]

Diving is pretty important, just to cover the loose ball when there is a knock on (and avoid those f**king annoying 'pick up the knock on when play on is called and just run straight through and score' tries), and naturally, to dive for a grubber. I think though for jumping to be of any use bombs need a whole lot of work, grubbers work ok (they need to go further in a lot of cases) but bombs, ugh, they're next to useless unfortunately, I only try and score off them for novelty value rather than as an attacking weapon. No need to overcomplicate it though, just have a button for jump and whoever times it better gets the ball.

 

[Bowdus]

Why not making the jumping for bombs etc. automatic? All you would have to do is make sure your player is in position. A seperate skill can then be used for players to measure their jumping ability. Then when a jump is on for the ball that skill, plus maybe handling skills, the position of the player in relation to where it's going to land and even the speed of the player at the time can be used to determine who actually catches it. If two players have almost identical points during an attempted catch then the ball is knocked on.

Just an idea, people may prefer to have more input in the contest for the ball but this way would require one less button and make it a litte bit more simpler.

 

[lionmaul]

Diving is pretty important, just to cover the loose ball when there is a knock on (and avoid those f**king annoying 'pick up the knock on when play on is called and just run straight through and score' tries), and naturally, to dive for a grubber. I think though for jumping to be of any use bombs need a whole lot of work, grubbers work ok (they need to go further in a lot of cases) but bombs, ugh, they're next to useless unfortunately, I only try and score off them for novelty value rather than as an attacking weapon. No need to overcomplicate it though, just have a button for jump and whoever times it better gets the ball.

Golee, have you tried using the field goal kick(it a two button combo kick) for bomb type kicks, it works pretty good,(better then the actual chip/bomb button) just don't kick it through the post or you will get 1 point.
Cheers and Salu

 

[..::ERIC::..]

I have actually scored a few tries of crossfeild feild goals or punts, much better than bombs. The jumping system would be very useful, particulary at short kick offs in tence games. I am yet to take a kick off from my own kick and a jumping system would make this possible (but hopefully hard). Diving is needed for sure.

 

[Blunty]

I think that system would be awsome and I think it could be implemented using the scoring button. For PS2 this is square, and as your player comes near to the bulls eye or ball shadow you could press square, plus all the other things and if you take the catch then in hitting the ground you will auotmatically score the try, because square has already been pressed.

 

[..::ERIC::..]

Yes, many times a play will jump and catch the ball and simply fall straight to the ground. Unless they are a good 2-3m out they don't jump, land and then dive.

 

[Goleel]

I think bombs would work a heap better if they stayed in the air a bit longer.

 

[lionmaul]

Why not making the jumping for bombs etc. automatic? All you would have to do is make sure your player is in position. A seperate skill can then be used for players to measure their jumping ability. Then when a jump is on for the ball that skill, plus maybe handling skills, the position of the player in relation to where it's going to land and even the speed of the player at the time can be used to determine who actually catches it. If two players have almost identical points during an attempted catch then the ball is knocked on.

Just an idea, people may prefer to have more input in the contest for the ball but this way would require one less button and make it a litte bit more simpler.

This is not a bad idea, but I have found that in past games like rugby 2001 they had a similar system in which was automatic jumping, it worked better then no jumping, but it was still very frustrating when you believe you would of timed the jump better the AI or sometimes it would not jump at all. Lomu rugby, had manual jumping and it added to the game tremendously. Maybe an automatic jump could be an option available, for people who whant things simpler, but I think that manual jumping would add to yet another skill you have to learn, to play the game. Adding even a longer life to the game.
Cheers and Salu

 

[lionmaul]

I think that system would be awsome and I think it could be implemented using the scoring button. For PS2 this is square, and as your player comes near to the bulls eye or ball shadow you could press square, plus all the other things and if you take the catch then in hitting the ground you will auotmatically score the try, because square has already been pressed.

Good idea makeing the score button also the jump button. Or another thing that could be done, if the offensive player catches the ball in the try zone, maybe the jumping animation should continue with going to the ground for a try. Although it would look silly if there was absolutely no defender around. So I think the score button idea is the better one.
Cheers and Salu

 

[mikdalton]

How about a change in view again. The camera could swirve around to behind the defenders (much like it does when you regain the ball) and then there is a target where the ball will land like in madden and you have to manually jump for it.

 

[Bowdus]

lionmaul- can’t argue with people wanting more input, personally I hate extra buttons/button uses to remember (brain is getting too slow), however how about a new idea mixed of stolen suggestions from other people. Lets presume a bomb is approaching the ground with an AI opponent and your own player within catching distance now you can't tackle a player without the ball or someone in mid-air so the tackle button will be the one selected for the job. As you think the ball is approaching the ground you push and hold the tackle button this will make the player leap, if your jump is good and the ball is now within reach you can release the tackle button to snatch at the ball. Jump too early your going to miss it or not be higher and thus in worse position then the opponent. Release the button too early or too late and you snatch at air and the ball is either ripe for the computer to catch or missed completely and bounces. Grab it at the right time and you not only have the ball but also have your finger on the button to plant the ball down for a try. Of course two perfect grabs at the ball would probably result in a knock on or maybe even a players strength determining the winner.

How does one judge the right time to grab it? Well why not something very simple like an icon on the ground directly where the ball will land. It will not only tell you where you should be jumping from but as it approaches the perfect catching height it will either change colour or reduce in size or something to indicate now is your chance to grab it.

Well there's version 2.0 of my idea, crude, but still feel free to criticise, butcher or insult it.