How Long Should We Give Elliot?

[Dave Q]

I suppose a number of hearts were broken west of parra to see two fine Penrith juniors in the form of Geyer and Turner, turn it on for melbourne and help take them to GF 2006.

As we all know, for whatever reasons, signings and marquee signings are thin on the ground for 2007.

That has placed tremendous pressure on Elliot to hold the fort until the wheel of fortune (salary cap opportunity) rolls around again and the Panthers can make those credible signings from PL and the juniors as well as a few name or otherwise talented import signings.

So what should we reasonably expect from Elliot next year?

I say he should be able to help the Panthers win at least one-half of all games played. That would be satisfactory for mine.

Question One: What does the Panel think, is 50% too low, is it enough or is it too ambitious?

Question Two: Where do the Panthers go if the season ends in tears. Big Mick appears concerned, are you?

A penny for your thoughts lads and ladesses.

 

[Fibroman]

Panthers will improve out of sight under the leadership and guidance of Elliot.

Jennings will blossom into a regular first grader. Paul Aiton to become a star in his own right.

Penrith to finish top 8 for sure.

 

[Panther_Daz]

It all depends on what team's are selected on Tuesday afternoons, we named a few shockers this year, abit of new blood may do the trick.

 

[choc_soldier]

We'll definitely play a different style under Elliott. He will get the most out of our players.

However, having said that, I'm still not sure if he can steer Penrith into the 8. It all depends on whether he can adjust the attitude of the team in general. But I think he will "squash a few egos", and definitely give a few kids a run.

Either way, I look forward to '07 with almost a re-newed sense of enthiusiasm.

 

[Caged Panther]

I think you've got to give the guy at least two years. There is no doubt in my mind that although he was involved in recruitment - I know there was none to speak of - still working for canberra I doubt he would have given it the full attention it should have gotten.

So hopfully by 2008 he'll have got a side that closely resembles the one he would have envisaged when he signed on the dotted line.

 

[*Sandy*]

Geyer and Turner give me something to look forward to in watching the Grand Final next weekend. Good luck to them.

And Elliott can have as much time as he needs to coach a winning GF Team at Penrith as far as I'm concerned.

Because I am a curious person DaveQ, how come your post comes across negatively when pretty much all I have read from you is how we (Penrith Supporters) are quick to condemn our team, coach and management?

I wouldnt have thought an optimistic person would give a percentage, especially a low percentage at that, or time estimates. ;-)

 

[Big Mick]

after today...we'll go well if we pick those kids.

If we don't, we got f**k all chance basically.

I'll give Elliot till 09'. He's got his hands full.

 

[Kilkenny]

As long as it takes?

Elliot deserves time.

The juniors coming through in flegg, ball and matthews will see we are in good shape in the years to come.

We just need to make sure our finances our such we can hang onto our quality juniors. No more Steve Turners etc.

 

[Dave Q]

Because I am a curious person DaveQ, how come your post comes across negatively when pretty much all I have read from you is how we (Penrith Supporters) are quick to condemn our team, coach and management?

I wouldnt have thought an optimistic person would give a percentage, especially a low percentage at that, or time estimates. ;-)

Thanks for the questions.

I didnt mean for the post to come across too negatively, that was not my intent. Despite being a Souths member, I am pro-panthers. They are my local side, many of my friends are panther people and some of these are involved with the club.

My analysis is that those that have criticised the Panthers management this year ( I was in the other camp -as you identified) have certainly won the fight for hearts and minds in 2006.

There's been some problems at the management level ( btw for many years souths was the leagues worst practice).

I think that one part of the failure at the Panthers has been the secrecy they embrace ( for 'operational' reasons ). The drip of information is a tad too slow for mine.

When we dont know, we question. And when a club is quiet and then makes mistakes, people get understandably concerned. Why wasnt stapo identified as a top shelf player? Why muck about with Priddo? Why is Geyer and Turner playing for Melbourne? Why was Hookey released?

So we have to have a degree of good faith and trust. That can wear out after several ordinary seasons. Time is ticking away. Most of the fans these days believe in winning. Its a simple concept. They dont understand recruitment, juniors or the intricacies of the salary cap. Thus the club has to douse flames of revolt every now and then. Getting into the 8 is very helpful to this end.

Now given what I understand the teams to be next year, I thought 50% was pretty high actually.

I expect Wing will sign with the Panthers. He'd be a great 5/8. but I hear the chorus to secure the good juniors. Thats important.

I guess to put it simply, I am not very optimistic that the Panthers can make the 8 on current playing performances, but I'd really like to see it. The reason is that the forwards are fatigued. Theres a few injuries out there. At least Gowie is spending his vacation on the operating table and not being belted up by italians.

They will go good to round 12 or so, then the big guys will slow down again and if Elliot cant make an impact, thats the season. Thats why I am pushing for major positional changes.

Then its onto 2008 with a few marquee signings I'd imagine.

Maybe Elliot is the messiah, but lets be gentle with him if he turns out to be only human!;-)

 

[*Sandy*]

We could have signed a 98% winning percentage coach and if he lost just one or two matches - the knives would be out.

sh*t happens.

Every fans outlook, expectations, etc vary. There's no point in targeting them. There's no point in condemning them.

Another saying ... to each their own.

Maybe I look onto opinions too much like a moderator now as I believe as a moderator I need to take a step back and look at all angles not just on one. That's probably why I query, probe, try to find out how other minds are ticking.

I like to win. I hope we win. If we don't then I havent got much to say.

 

[Kilkenny]

Matthew Elliot will be a very good coach given time and our full support. We should not expect too much too soon. He needs at least a season to find his feet and despite his miracles with the Raiders we should not expect similar results in his first season with us. A number of our young guns may not be ready for 2007 and it may be a season later before they start to come thru.

 

[Dave Q]

We could have signed a 98% winning percentage coach and if he lost just one or two matches - the knives would be out.

sh*t happens.

Every fans outlook, expectations, etc vary. There's no point in targeting them. There's no point in condemning them.

Another saying ... to each their own.

Maybe I look onto opinions too much like a moderator now as I believe as a moderator I need to take a step back and look at all angles not just on one. That's probably why I query, probe, try to find out how other minds are ticking.

I like to win. I hope we win. If we don't then I havent got much to say.

Theres some good points here.

As a fan of another club, I feel disposed to treat the Panthers respectfully, like I'm an observer. At the end of the day, its your club, not mine. I am not starting or backing a coup. I get some rare insights from people who are close to the panthers from time to time. I get to hear some things that are otherwise unpublished. But as soon as you breach a trust, thats the end of you as a recipient of information. So I focus on the info in the public domain.

I am also interested in people's views. As you say, they vary. People have different levels of knowledge and beliefs. There is no point condemning them. I get annoyed when I get condemned on PI and I see it happen to others.

I think the current panther management is well-intentioned. They want the club to succeed. They cant get absolutley everything right. Thats impossible.

Its their beliefs on what is good for the club that attracts my scrutiny and thats what I'd like to know more about.

I would like to see them address the problems in the forwards. Maybe new training techniques etc. How do we keep the boys fresh after round 12? In my eyes, this is a critical problem right now. Someone might think differently. Thats OK by me.

People will tell you they are experts, they used to play etc etc. I tell you this, nobody is a 100% expert in league, although Bellamy is stretching for it!!

Cheers

 

[Premiers_03]

I woudl give elliot as much time as he needs but i think he could have them to the semi's by 2008

 

[Big Mick]

Dave....the players need hardcore nutritionists to lose all the excess weight in the off-season and also to hit the sand dunes at Cronulla hard for fitness and endurance.

Next year we wont be able to compete based solely on size.

We need to be faster than every other club, we need to change the way we run, we need to change the way we play. We need to change the way we defend and rap up the ball. We need have bodies in motion always. We need to have players feeling like they have nothing left at the end of the game but are fit enough to last the entire 80, rather than 60 of it.

If we do that we win more games than we lose.

This off-season should be all about fitness and coming out fitter than every other club.

 

[Kilkenny]

Dave....the players need hardcore nutritionists to lose all the excess weight in the off-season and also to hit the sand dunes at Cronulla hard for fitness and endurance.

Next year we wont be able to compete based solely on size.

We need to be faster than every other club, we need to change the way we run, we need to change the way we play. We need to change the way we defend and rap up the ball. We need have bodies in motion always. We need to have players feeling like they have nothing left at the end of the game but are fit enough to last the entire 80, rather than 60 of it.

If we do that we win more games than we lose.

This off-season should be all about fitness and coming out fitter than every other club.

A lot of good issues raised in this post.

We have not been able to compete in and around the rucks both in attack and defense in the past two seasons. We have been left behind since 2004. Our go forward game plan was worked out by other clubs and we didn't have any alternatives to fall back on. I'm not sure overall fitness was the issue rather than the types of players we have in our forward pack. We sorta have impact players in abundance but not enough players in the mould of Alan Tounge who do the no frills work that every club needs. We need to unearth the back rowers capable of 30 -40 -50 effective tackles each game, no frills hit ups and who back up each and every play.

 

[Big Mick]

Shane Rodney...I think we missed him alot at the back end of the year.

Also I can see Aiton being that type of player...playing Lock...he is quick...and a remarkable cover defender. It would also pave the way to play him the entire 80 minutes. Utilising his dummy half running ability.

Craig Stapleton cleaned up a lot of situations for us this season, he isn't there next year unfortunately. Thats why I want Waterhouse at prop.

 

[*Sandy*]

Dave....the players need hardcore nutritionists to lose all the excess weight in the off-season and also to hit the sand dunes at Cronulla hard for fitness and endurance.

Next year we wont be able to compete based solely on size.

We need to be faster than every other club, we need to change the way we run, we need to change the way we play. We need to change the way we defend and rap up the ball. We need have bodies in motion always. We need to have players feeling like they have nothing left at the end of the game but are fit enough to last the entire 80, rather than 60 of it.

If we do that we win more games than we lose.

This off-season should be all about fitness and coming out fitter than every other club.

Johnny didnt put the boys through any endurance training at the beginning of this last season. He couldnt see the point of it or something like that if my memory serves me correct. Or was that the year before??

Whatever year it was, I do agree that some sort of endurance fitness training is needed because both years it seems we've failed to keep up.

 

[*Sandy*]

Also I think I remember that back in 2003 sometime they were doing sand dunes. Do they not do them now? And if so, I wonder why they gave it the flick!

 

[Big Mick]

From what I heard...they were less done the last two years.

It should be tripled.

 

[Kilkenny]

We have had too many so called impact players in our forward pack and too few prepared to roll there sleeves up and do the necessary dirty work.

As a matter of interest, in watching replays of this seasons game on my foxtel IQ, it is interesting to note how we fail to slow the play the ball down.

You would be amazed to see how often when our forwards make tackles they are still laying on the ground when the ball is being played or only one has got of the ground to mark up at the play the ball. Our marker defense in 2006 was nothing short of shocking. Our opponents had us worked out and frequently the dummy half ran wide, turned the ball back inside to an inside runner and caught us out time and time again. Luke Priddis aside Matt Elliot has some serious work to do in addressing our defensive deficiencies in and around the ruck area.