Hurricane Katrina

[millersnose]

i dont read nyt opeds

 

[Pensacola Q.C]

i dont read nyt opeds

Mate I just explained that the editorials on the last link I posted were from conservative publications. Is this an indication of the camel burying its head? Giving up the ghost millers? You really haven't said much since I got here other than "I don't read that..." Not very scholarly hey? I even read conservative publications and watch Fox News if for no other reason to get more viewpoints and a more well rounded perspective. It seems you've given up on this one but as a last gesture you can, if you dare read this opinion piece.
http://nytimes.com/2005/09/04/opinion/04rich.html?pagewanted=print

 

[millersnose]

if you dare read this opinion piece.
http://nytimes.com/2005/09/04/opinion/04rich.html?pagewanted=print

yet before

Let's be clear - the above pieces aren't 'opinion' columns on how Bush may have done better if he'd done this and that.

PQC you strike me as a good guy and on the level and all

so i will read these peices

they better be good

 

[Pensacola Q.C]

yet before




PQC you strike me as a good guy and on the level and all

so i will read these peices

they better be good

I labelled the last one a clear opinion piece. When it comes down to it i supppose all journalism is somewhat opinion based...but when virtually all left and centrist publications and a large amount of right leaning publications all present the view that the president and the administration have dropped the ball...well you can probably take it to the bank.

I thank you for the rest. There will be more...it's not hard to post links.

 

[millersnose]

what a pile of nonsense

bush has been president for 5 years

what about the other 200 years of new orleans existance???

this was a freak storm ffs

the area had flooded before

why are not the democrats in leadership in NO not held accountable by you guys?

what about all the previous administrations that didnt freak proof the place

what about now??

shall they go around the entire country looking for potential freak events and throw billions at each one???


the leftist hypocracy in this event is mind blowing

 

[Pensacola Q.C]

what a pile of nonsense

bush has been president for 5 years

what about the other 200 years of new orleans existance???

this was a freak storm ffs

the area had flooded before

why are not the democrats in leadership in NO not held accountable by you guys?

what about all the previous administrations that didnt freak proof the place

what about now??

shall they go around the entire country looking for potential freak events and throw billions at each one???

the leftist hypocracy in this event is mind blowing

Yet after 2003, the flow of federal dollars toward SELA dropped to a trickle. The Corps never tried to hide the fact that the spending pressures of the war in Iraq, as well as homeland security -- coming at the same time as federal tax cuts -- was the reason for the strain. At least nine articles in the Times-Picayune from 2004 and 2005 specifically cite the cost of Iraq as a reason for the lack of hurricane- and flood-control dollars.

New Orleans had long known it was highly vulnerable to flooding and a direct hit from a hurricane. In fact, the federal government has been working with state and local officials in the region since the late 1960s on major hurricane and flood relief efforts. When flooding from a massive rainstorm in May 1995 killed six people, Congress authorized the Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project, or SELA.

Over the next 10 years, the Army Corps of Engineers, tasked with carrying out SELA, spent $430 million on shoring up levees and building pumping stations, with $50 million in local aid. But at least $250 million in crucial projects remained, even as hurricane activity in the Atlantic Basin increased dramatically and the levees surrounding New Orleans continued to subside.

Yet after 2003, the flow of federal dollars toward SELA dropped to a trickle. The Corps never tried to hide the fact that the spending pressures of the war in Iraq, as well as homeland security -- coming at the same time as federal tax cuts -- was the reason for the strain. At least nine articles in the Times-Picayune from 2004 and 2005 specifically cite the cost of Iraq as a reason for the lack of hurricane- and flood-control dollars.

Newhouse News Service, in an article posted late Tuesday night at The Times-Picayune Web site, reported: "No one can say they didn't see it coming....Now in the wake of one of the worst storms ever, serious questions are being asked about the lack of preparation."

In early 2004, as the cost of the conflict in Iraq soared, President Bush proposed spending less than 20 percent of what the Corps said was needed for Lake Pontchartrain, according to a Feb. 16, 2004, article, in New Orleans CityBusiness.

On June 8, 2004, Walter Maestri, emergency management chief for Jefferson Parish, Louisiana; told the Times-Picayune: "It appears that the money has been moved in the president's budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that's the price we pay. Nobody locally is happy that the levees can't be finished, and we are doing everything we can to make the case that this is a security issue for us."


It's very simple millers. It's called bad policy. Disastrous policy in fact which resulted in a disaster. The evidence before the administration was there well in advance of Katrina that there was a serious possibility of such a storm hitting and instead of giving it the proper funding and attention Bush chose to gamble and lost. But he didn't really lose, the people of Louisiana lost in a big way. The people of America will lose economically and this will probably ripple worldwide if 9-11 can be taken as a precedent. All reports suggest the economic ramifications will much dwarf 9-11. 100+ billion to fix this and it would have cost a small fraction of that to maintain the levies. 40% of Nat Guard of Louisiana were overseas. Emergency services run by FEMA were incompetently run to say the least. Tax cuts don't fund essential infrastructure especially in poorer areas. Americans deserve to be protected when there is a real and assertainable threat present and the administration chose to withhold money and deny protection. Morally unconscionable.

It's time to stand up and recognise. If you want to blame previous administrations then fine, but as the saying goes: we can only do the right thing in the time given to us. Bush has been getting it wrong, in a big way, at a big cos and for unsound reasons in terms of the interest of the greater population. It's that simple.

 

[Pensacola Q.C]

For a better view of the economic picture:

http://www.economist.com/agenda/displayStory.cfm?story_id=4362200

 

[Generalzod]

maybe you could start a thread on heroic sean penn rescuing his hairdresser and personal photographer from a sinking dingy that he forgot to put the plugs in zod

Whatever...Heroic Bush promotes Humans rights to the world and leaves thousands of his own people stranded in catastrophic conditions.
Good one Bush.....

 

[millersnose]

It's very simple millers. It's called bad policy.

policy did not create the storm

freak weather did

Disastrous policy in fact which resulted in a disaster.

nonsense

it was the weather

not the evil bu$hitler

The evidence before the administration was there well in advance of Katrina that there was a serious possibility of such a storm hitting and instead of giving it the proper funding and attention Bush chose to gamble and lost.

there are thousands of loby groups requesting funding for all sorts of potential disasters

every state has them

are you saying every request for money from the feds should be granted?

But he didn't really lose, the people of Louisiana lost in a big way. The people of America will lose economically and this will probably ripple worldwide if 9-11 can be taken as a precedent. All reports suggest the economic ramifications will much dwarf 9-11.

the stock market plumetted post 9/11

it hasnt post katrina

100+ billion to fix this and it would have cost a small fraction of that to maintain the levies.

if the levies in NO was the only problem

you seem not to be aware that thousands of square miles are affexted accross 3 states

40% of Nat Guard of Louisiana were overseas. Emergency services run by FEMA were incompetently run to say the least.

opinion

Tax cuts don't fund essential infrastructure especially in poorer areas.

and high taxes dont magically protect the world from disasters

Americans deserve to be protected when there is a real and assertainable threat present and the administration chose to withhold money and deny protection. Morally unconscionable.

absolute nonsense


why didnt clinton do something then?

what proportion of the blame do you attribute to him

silly argument

It's time to stand up and recognise. If you want to blame previous administrations then fine,

i dont

but as the saying goes: we can only do the right thing in the time given to us. Bush has been getting it wrong, in a big way, at a big cos and for unsound reasons in terms of the interest of the greater population. It's that simple.

that is your opinion

you are welcome to it

mine is freak disasters will strike anywhere at anytime

we cannot completely make every area safe from every risk

 

[Pensacola Q.C]

And it's the media's job to report the facts and make the government accountable. Something they've done very well in this instance. I applaud them for it and commend them for finally having the balls to stand up to this administration.

Umm you might want to read that piece in the economist. Perhaps at this very moment the economic reverberations don't match the levels of 9-11 but let's just look to the medium term future before making statements about that.

 

[millersnose]

PQC

with due respect the opinion collums of the NYT have been bagging bush for years

he just won with an increased majority

you see people in the US know press bias very well

 

[Pensacola Q.C]

PQC

with due respect the opinion collums of the NYT have been bagging bush for years

he just won with an increased majority

you see people in the US know press bias very well

Ok millers, my posts were hardly just NY times Bush bashing. Also, winning margins last year don't have much to do with what's going on now and how we and more importantly the US population reflect on the job he is doing now.

In any case I'll leave it there for now. Just have to ask you though - ever thought of going into politics millers?

 

[millersnose]

domestic politics doesnt interest me

 

[bazza]

You have to be an Australian citizen to stand for parliment here

 

[millersnose]

would you vote for me bazza?

 

[bazza]

If you ran in the senate I might put you above fred nile

 

[millersnose]

how far above?

 

[bazza]

I would depend on how many candidates there were that were nuttier than you but saner than fred

 

[millersnose]

what if i promised you a bike lane?

 

[ibeme]

what if i promised you a bike lane?

You'd probably take his bike with the other hand