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I would like feedback - Domestic Quota Rule for Internationals

spinnerhowland

Juniors
Messages
788
As most of you know, I spent over a decade helping grow RL in the USA, and assisting other developing nations anytime they have reached out with questions, or input regarding what we have done in the USA.

So, please read of my thoughts on making a domestic player quota for all Nation Team when they play in Sanctioned Games, and especially in the WC Teams.

Of the 322 players in the 14 teams that competed in the 2013 World Cup: 36% Australian / 18% NZ / 21% English. So from 14 "International Teams", 75% of all players were born in just those 3 countries.

And of the ones "born" in some of the "Home Nations", they spent less than the first year of their life there before moving to their current country. So in all honesty, the true number of "domestic players" is less than 20% for the entire player group.

The rules for the WC allow for 100% of the entire squad (Please see the use of the SQUAD, not just the run on team) to be heritage players, for any nation.

The Irony: The RLIF excepts those in developing countries to grow the game, with very little if any financial support. So this means the players, coaches, administrators, who in most cases are 100% volunteers, do all the hard work at the grass roots level. They spend their own money, give up their seasons, etc. Just the same as players and coaches do in the "Big Three" at any level under NRL. They work jobs, train, play, travel, pay for hotels, car rentals, update websites, pay for advertising, operate the ticket gate on game day, wash the gear, line the fields, etc. etc. etc. They are TOLD BY THE RLIF that they must meet minimum criteria in players numbers, teams, development, updated team and league websites and social media, provide audits accounts, etc. etc. Again, all as volunteers, who literally do everything to run an entire league, while also working full time paying jobs.

Yet there is not a single rule to protect these players, when it comes time to represent their nation in what we are told, is the greatest honor in our sport.

Minimum domestic player number MUST be added to the rules to protect those who are giving this game more than any other group of people in its international development.

There are two BIG ISSUES, with the current International Player Rules that need to be addressed:
(i) Players changing nations, or choosing nations based on heritage, mostly in sight of money. It is hard to come down on players who are making their living for doing that, BUT they should not be allowed change inside a WC cycle. And NO PLAYER should ever be allowed play for more than 2 nations. (ii) The number of domestic players selected in National teams needs to be mandated. For the game to grow outside current nations, there must be domestic competitions. The only way this happens is if there is some kind of protection for the domestic players when it comes to international games.

Personally I would like to see 51% of all SQUADS made up of domestic players. (Before you post, see who I define Domestic Players below) This would mean all national teams are "a majority" of domestic players. And in the WC where SQUADS are 24 players, this means 13 must be domestic and 11 can be heritage players.
It is fair to say that the 11 heritage players would be named in the 17 name team for games. If a national needs more than 11 players in a team who are heritage players, then they need to do more work on the domestic front.

This gives domestic players the opportunity to be coached, and experience the game at it's highest level, AND be rewarded by having the HONOR of representing their HOME NATION.

It also gives domestic fans, supporters, team mates, sponsors, etc. a TRUE CONNECTION with the team, by seeing faces and names they are familiar with.

And for clarity, I consider a DOMESTIC PLAYER, any player who is eligible as a Citizen or Resident based on current RLIF rules, who has registered and played a minimum of one season in his selected country.
This means eligible players from a country who have played one or more seasons in their homeland, but now playing overseas to gain experience, etc. count as domestic. International players who qualify thru "Heritage Citizenship" who have committed to at least a season in their selected country (thus helping grow the domestic game) would also be domestic players.

Yet those heritage players who reside outside of their "selected" country, and thus not directly contributed to the domestic growth of the game, would be one of the "49" percent heritage players.
They rules must protect the best domestic players in developing nations, who are not only playing for free, but in MOST cases paying to play, personally funding the development, etc. And an incentive given to Heritage players who are willing to spend a season in their "selected overseas nation" to grow the game.

As RL grow into new nations, there are more and more fans of the game who couldn't name a single player, or team for that matter, in the NRL or Superleague. All the know is the players they watch play in their domestic competition. So when it comes time for the WORLD CUP TEAM, they are looking for player names they identify with and recognize. And this is not just the fans, but the sponsors who have supported the domestic players, the teams who put forward their best players for consideration, and the overall Rugby League Community in a nation where the game is small, but being driven by passionate players, of which some are striving for their Nations Jersey.
 

miguel de cervantes

First Grade
Messages
7,474
I don't think you will find anyone that doesn't want a maximum amount of domestic players in the international teams. But everyone knows it is a just a balancing act between authenticity and competetivity.

If you implement such a 51% rule, you have Australia, NZ and England streak even further ahead of the rest, without a doubt. It sucks, but it's an economical reality of professional sport. Until more pro-comps are setup, I can't see this changing.

You just have to find the magical figure that means a nation can continue to be sufficiently competitive without having too much of a negative impact on the domestic guys. It is probably a higher percentage than 0%, but lower than 51%.
 

Craigo

Juniors
Messages
202
I don't think you will find anyone that doesn't want a maximum amount of domestic players in the international teams. But everyone knows it is a just a balancing act between authenticity and competetivity.

If you implement such a 51% rule, you have Australia, NZ and England streak even further ahead of the rest, without a doubt. It sucks, but it's an economical reality of professional sport. Until more pro-comps are setup, I can't see this changing.

You just have to find the magical figure that means a nation can continue to be sufficiently competitive without having too much of a negative impact on the domestic guys. It is probably a higher percentage than 0%, but lower than 51%.

There should be a minimum without a doubt, but what that is, I'm not sure. The last USA team in the WC only had 2 players from memory that actually had an American accent and one of them didn't even get a run yet they still got 60 points put on them by Australia. Having a 51% domestic team set up wouldn't of had any real impact IMO. Again, look at the Italian side from the last WC and ask ANY of them what they have done since to help the domestic game in Italy. My guess would be 4/5ths of f*** all.
You only have to look at Japan in RU, they were getting pumped by 100 at different times over the last 20 years, yet now play quite competitively with a high number of domestic players.
Local players MUST have the opportunity to represent THEIR country otherwise, why would they bother??
 

hutch

First Grade
Messages
6,810
I agree there should be a minimum number of domestically qualified players per test team, otherwise what's the point? What number? I'd start by making at least 3 per 17 man test team, 6 per 25 man test squad.
 

CQ Italia

Juniors
Messages
1,143
Fiji have around 6 or 7 out of 20 that do or have played domestic junior or senior league there (the ones I know of). But yes there definitely should ne more domestic trained players in squads - I think Fiji will have a vefy good mix by 2021 with the possible NSW Cup club several seasons into action by then
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
70,867
A World nines is the place for domestic rep quota imo. The full game is unforgiving and no one wants to see 120-0 scorelines at WC or 4 nations comps. I'd actually love to see a World Nines league of sorts with 3 or 4 events a year around the world. Given the big three would be unlikely to send superstars the developing nations would be more competitive. In essence you might have a reverse quota ie so many have to be from a professional club and the rest from domestic comps.
 

langpark

First Grade
Messages
5,867
The Irony: The RLIF excepts those in developing countries to grow the game, with very little if any financial support. So this means the players, coaches, administrators, who in most cases are 100% volunteers, do all the hard work at the grass roots level. They spend their own money, give up their seasons, etc. Just the same as players and coaches do in the "Big Three" at any level under NRL. They work jobs, train, play, travel, pay for hotels, car rentals, update websites, pay for advertising, operate the ticket gate on game day, wash the gear, line the fields, etc. etc. etc. They are TOLD BY THE RLIF that they must meet minimum criteria in players numbers, teams, development, updated team and league websites and social media, provide audits accounts, etc. etc. Again, all as volunteers, who literally do everything to run an entire league, while also working full time paying jobs.
I think a lot of people under-estimate just how true this really is. If it weren't for the hardworking volunteers around the world, League, that has appeared and flourished in many new countries over the last decade, simply wouldn't exist at all.
 
Messages
15,043
The rule for eligibllity should be.
1. You should only play for a country if you were born in that country or had a parent born in that country or you have lived in that country for at least 10 years.

2. Once you have played for a country at senior level you should never be allowed to switch to another country.

As regards squads for internationals, at least 5 of the 25 man squad should play in that countries Comp
 

hutch

First Grade
Messages
6,810
The rule for eligibllity should be.
1. You should only play for a country if you were born in that country or had a parent born in that country or you have lived in that country for at least 10 years.

2. Once you have played for a country at senior level you should never be allowed to switch to another country.

As regards squads for internationals, at least 5 of the 25 man squad should play in that countries Comp

I would change the domestic rule to 5 players that have played domestically, not current.

If we implemented these rules 15 years ago we would be so much stronger now. It's going to take a few years for this to work and we are obsessed with going for the quick fix in rugby league.
 

langpark

First Grade
Messages
5,867
I would change the domestic rule to 5 players that have played domestically, not current.

If we implemented these rules 15 years ago we would be so much stronger now. It's going to take a few years for this to work and we are obsessed with going for the quick fix in rugby league.
Way too many loopholes to be exploited on a rule like that.
 

miguel de cervantes

First Grade
Messages
7,474
A World nines is the place for domestic rep quota imo. The full game is unforgiving and no one wants to see 120-0 scorelines at WC or 4 nations comps. I'd actually love to see a World Nines league of sorts with 3 or 4 events a year around the world. Given the big three would be unlikely to send superstars the developing nations would be more competitive. In essence you might have a reverse quota ie so many have to be from a professional club and the rest from domestic comps.

I'd second this. A world 9s would be an ideal place to impose a stricter domestic quota. It's basically what 7s is all about.
 

langpark

First Grade
Messages
5,867
What loophole? You either have played rugby league in the country for a period of time (1 year) or not.
Well you left out this very important part in your initial post. ;-) Hence why I mentioned possible sneaky ways around it.
 

spinnerhowland

Juniors
Messages
788
A World nines is the place for domestic rep quota imo. The full game is unforgiving and no one wants to see 120-0 scorelines at WC or 4 nations comps. I'd actually love to see a World Nines league of sorts with 3 or 4 events a year around the world. Given the big three would be unlikely to send superstars the developing nations would be more competitive. In essence you might have a reverse quota ie so many have to be from a professional club and the rest from domestic comps.

This doesn't help the expansion. A world 9's doesn't have the same potential as the full WC. It is like being in the reserve grade game, where no one really watches or cares about it.
If RL really wants to grow into new nations, they need the domestic fans, sponsors, supporters, to be have a connection, and thus a reason, to watch the games. In the 2013 WC I would say that less than 1000 people in the entire USA cared enough to actually seek out news or info about how the team went.
You need to put a handful of domestic players in the team so the local Teams, the Local League and the local fans and sponsors are talking about the local players. They will get on social media, find ways to watch the games, or at least find out game reports, scores, etc.
A team full of Heritage players that have not once played a game in the domestic comp, and live on the other side of the world, will not even make a news post.
The thing that most people need to remember, that in many new RL nations, non of the fans or sponsors, have ever heard of the NRL or Superleague, the don't know a single players names, and the really don't care. As far as they are concerned the only players they want to support and the guys they see playing in their local teams.
Having a quota of domestic players gives a 100 times more incentive for players to prepare and really strive to make the team, supporters and sponsors to create some "hype" about the national team, find ways to watch, etc.
 

Sinman

Juniors
Messages
104
I have been taking time to think over this and here is my thoughts... 1stly.. I think what you say has merit.. Especially looking at a place like Spain and how they are trying to get things going.. I think though the one place this might hurt is the Pacific Islands where economic immigration and the small size of the people actually living on the Islands make it hard.. Put this together with the fact that players generally want to play for there heritage because there are plenty of Tongan's that grow up in Tongan families who would consider themselves to be Tongans then I think this would be the area it would effect most....

The other thing though is that this idea can't be brought in on it's own.. other things have to be done to make it work.. Including
1. The big leagues need to make pathways and provide support for the growth of developing nations.. eg, Bring in a Fijian team to the NSW cup and look at how something simular can be done for Tonga and Samoa and so on.. Or.. NRL should sponsor domestic leagues in those places.. Consider the pacific Islands the 17th club and spend 8 million a year (2 million for 4 nations) to make a sustainable domestic scene in those places.. ESL should do the same but note that they kind of are through league 1 and letting Canada in..
2. Australia and NZ and England need to play games against the developing nations that have the capacity to get within 50 points of them with their best team.. They also need to play these games in those nations.. How incredible would it be to see a Aus and NZ tour the Pacific Islands one off season!! Both teams take a squad of 30 and play 5 tests in 4 weeks.. win them all.. that's ok but the legacy left behind would be huge!!
3. Fix up the residency rule.. make it 10 years for NZ AUS and Eng and leave it at 3 for the rest for now...
4. RLIF needs to help.. in whatever way it can more games to be played..

So in summary.. I think having a quota can work but it's not all that needs to happen.. I especially see the point of how USA used one group of players to qualify and then most of them didn't actually get to play in the world cup because heritage players took their spots.. If you had half the squad from the US then all their friends and family and teammates would be watching eagerly to see how they go..
 

roughyedspud

Coach
Messages
12,181
Changes to the eligibilty rules id make

1. Domestic player rule - id start at 6 domestics per 24 man squad,then look at increasing it every 4 years,after a world cup.

2. Residency rule - increase it to 5 years from 3 years,maybe even to 10years

3. Selection period - right...after every world cup final ALL players,in all comps and ages from under 20s upwards, have until january 1st to select or change nations,providing they are eligible,their selection is then locked in for the next 4 years till after the next world cup final.
 

morningstar

Juniors
Messages
827
Changes to the eligibilty rules id make

1. Domestic player rule - id start at 6 domestics per 24 man squad,then look at increasing it every 4 years,after a world cup.

2. Residency rule - increase it to 5 years from 3 years,maybe even to 10years

3. Selection period - right...after every world cup final ALL players,in all comps and ages from under 20s upwards, have until january 1st to select or change nations,providing they are eligible,their selection is then locked in for the next 4 years till after the next world cup final.

Perfect. Mail this out to David Collier and get it rubber stamped!
 

siv

First Grade
Messages
6,782
Agree with #3

But then start a proper residency rule

You must sit out 2y of internationals & U18 or higher internationals

But I would allow anyone from the Big 3 to switch immediately to a Yier 2 nation for the next 10 years

Not a fan of a domestic rule. Only hurts smaller nations

And if course we need to be playing more annual test matches

--

This addresses the Semi situation but allows a Aussie RL player to play for Canada via heritage or residency
 

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