T-Boon
Coach
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FTM there are more pressing issues in rugby league ,which the likes of a couple here cannot get their heads around.
Like what?
FTM there are more pressing issues in rugby league ,which the likes of a couple here cannot get their heads around.
Who is to say any club will be weak,when the new grants plus 20 plus % comes to them.And on that basis provided they are getting the crowds and membership and their infrastructure is what it should be, why the hell should any be relocated.If they aren't performing so be it.
" Hundreds of thousands of new fans" needed .Don't think so. Average with very little cover and some poor scheduling was over 14,000 plus of late.Any club averaging 18-20,000 with the Tv deal monies would be more than happy.I'd further suggest their average this year will be well up.Membership as of 1st January is well up.
They will also have 2,000 people living right next door in new units.
The club at least will be in a position to improve infrastructure in the future and if an A League franchise is added plus owning a ground gives you leverage.
What happens if Canberra continues with their low crowds?They should be also averaging 20,000.Do they get relocated?Ditto the GC if they agree 15,000 or less or the Cowboys.
The intent was not a dick measuring comparison with the Dragons.It was simply to show, the areas are now different (St George with a large Chinese population and from other backgrounds) and the Illawara with people of backgrounds more inclined to be league followers.
I'm not suggesting you were open to mergers,I'm stating my experience with clients.
The area is fairly affluent middle-class,no code should ignore this ,nor areas like Manly.
The SL war and the peace deal had long term effects.It provided a boost for the Swans in terms of crowds due to disillusioned fans, that gave them further media support.It left North Sydney area pop what 3/4m?? going to Hornsby,a vacuum taken up by the Swans in particular and lesser degree the Tahs.
The growth of the Swan"s supporter base ,gave impetus to the AFL bringing in the GWS Gnats,thus the long term effect is still swirling around.Interesting to note the Swan's crowds from SL onwards and prior.
I'm not suggesting rationalisation,I'm proposing growth by addition.I cannot see for any rhyme or reason, why the NRL can't grow to 18 then 20 teams nationally.Provided all sustainable.
You may well be a former Bear's fan, but the only way many Bear's fans will get back in to the swing of things is
via a CC Bears club.You leave an area and AFL swoops.
Because I can tell you and this view is shared by more than a number of Sharks fans, if their club was chopped or relocated, they would not be jumping on another club.
If there was little competition from other codes in Sydney,the NRL would IMO give it some thought.ATM the last thing they need is more disgruntled or lost fans.
The one area that I do worry about is the Eastern Suburbs.
Like what?
Why are you worried about Easts ?
You can ask any Norths, St George, Illawarra, Balmain, Wests, Crushers supporters how many really ztill follow the game
I know many on the north shore that just walked away
Yes it wouldn't just be the "odd week".
You don't get it.I'll spell it out clearly.
The large numbers of people from the East Coast generally have their current NRL club to which they stick.Meaning in Perth unless their old team is playing ,they more than likely will not attend.
Meaning their moving there ,will not assist push Perth crowds week after week.In effect Perth have to rely on born and bred locals, in a AFL mad city.And yes Perth's isolation is a hindrance correct,and perhaps that is another negative sorry to report.
So when we say junior numbers are dropping
If so where ?
Maybe that is a bigger reason for expansion
With Easts Balmain Newtown St George areas almost gone at junior levels. And now a similar effect starting in Manly and Parramatta
We expanded to address the effects of population shifts out the city centre when Annandale struggled with junior numbers
and then again when inner city impacts of Glebe/University occurred
and again when Newtown/Wests were impacted
And again when St George/Balmain/Easts were being impacted
Maybe its that time again after the Parramatta/Manly/Souths impacts
Well NRL ave been claiming last few years Jnr numbers are growing, so if they are dropping in Sydney other places must be picking up the slack?
and thats where we will always differ. Its a poor business that throws money at failing arms of its business whilst ignoring much more lucrative new opportunities. The NRL is always going to be significantly hamstrung by having nine teams in one city. Both financially by having to throw much of its resources at them to make up for the unsustainability of over saturation and in max number of clubs in a league. All its energy and money is sorting out clubs that have had decades of existence meaning it has little left to grow the game. Hopefully the massive money they are throwing at clubs will sort it out but I have my doubts going on recent history.
As a life long fan of a club that has teetered on the edge of existence a few times I get that fans of those nine clubs are heavily invested in their survival at all costs but the bigger picture for rugby league would suggest that less clubs in Sydney and more expansion of the game will long term be far more lucrative.
People think its just about me wanting a perth team but tbh if Adelaide, wellington, Brisbane2 and Port Moresby were the strongest expansion options and brought into NRL ahead of perth I would over the moon as it would at least show a sport that was growing, willing to take some risks and make things happen.
re 15-16k, as a start point I think the NRl would be very happy. Some clubs, cough cough, have taken 40 plus years and a premiership winning season to get that many! Storm started on 9-10k and has taken decade plus, tens of millions of $'s and a winning team to get near that. To start from scratch with that foundation would be very positive id suggest.
and thats where we will always differ. Its a poor business that throws money at failing arms of its business whilst ignoring much more lucrative new opportunities. The NRL is always going to be significantly hamstrung by having nine teams in one city. Both financially by having to throw much of its resources at them to make up for the unsustainability of over saturation and in max number of clubs in a league. All its energy and money is sorting out clubs that have had decades of existence meaning it has little left to grow the game. Hopefully the massive money they are throwing at clubs will sort it out but I have my doubts going on recent history.
As a life long fan of a club that has teetered on the edge of existence a few times I get that fans of those nine clubs are heavily invested in their survival at all costs but the bigger picture for rugby league would suggest that less clubs in Sydney and more expansion of the game will long term be far more lucrative.
People think its just about me wanting a perth team but tbh if Adelaide, wellington, Brisbane2 and Port Moresby were the strongest expansion options and brought into NRL ahead of perth I would over the moon as it would at least show a sport that was growing, willing to take some risks and make things happen.
re 15-16k, as a start point I think the NRl would be very happy. Some clubs, cough cough, have taken 40 plus years and a premiership winning season to get that many! Storm started on 9-10k and has taken decade plus, tens of millions of $'s and a winning team to get near that. To start from scratch with that foundation would be very positive id suggest.
If I knew all clubs were OK ,and grassroots was growing ,I'd be the first to push for Perth tomorrow.
The NRL is throwing money at the GC and Newcastle,both latter 20 and 21st Century expansion teams.Both with large junior base and populations.Both have had their share of problems and neither a Sydney club.
The AFL,the organisation you are always lauding have stated no more relocations, they will retain all their current Melbourne clubs, and some of those are losing money hand over fist.The expansion team Lions has lost to date nearly $14m and counting.GC and Gnats are getting large sums thrown at them.
What happens when new technology impacts further FTA and Pay TV? And the new Tv deals are not worth $2bn whatever.
Sydney is growing, go to the outskirts near Oran Park,The Oaks, Ropes Crossing and the new airport influence.It's not standing still.Rest assured the other codes will jump in when vacancies arise.
You see if we followed the approach of getting rid of the Sharks or relocating them because of their past financial problems, you wouldn't have the situation that in the last couple of years has occurred.Grand final win, huge crowd support from thousands of Sharks fans, their redevelopment underpinning their future regardless of what you think.We would have had a Nth Sydney 2,juniors disappearing, soccer or fumble ball taking over.If that helps the game, then I'm a good chance with Taylor Swift.
People think it's the way you approach the issue, with other clubs as if they are easily expendable, in order to get Perth in.
The thing that worries me the Cowboys were getting 18-20,000 averages ,that has dropped remarkably even after their 2015 G/F win.
If I knew all clubs were OK ,and grassroots was growing ,I'd be the first to push for Perth tomorrow.
I've been involved in Banking,Marketing and Export in my resume, nothing spectacular ,but one thing I learnt was not to ignore your main customers/clients ,whilst trying to grow your business.
I still get back to the stuff up on the last TV deal .Even if were a mere $40m pa extra over 5 years was secured ,that $200m could have assisted expansion and/or infrastructure improvements.
We are never going to have circumstances where all the clubs are financially OK. It is just never going to happen. They spend above their means. Always have, always will.
It is a weak excuse to do nothing. We are a gutless code getting our arses kicked at every corner.
Few things to debate in all that:
1. Not saying Sydney clubs are the only ones in financial distress, but they are the only ones were oversaturation is a key contributor. You can sort GC out by better stadium deal and better management which is happening, you can sort Newcastle out by better tapping into their huge supporter base and stronger corporate support (the latter may prove much more difficult and is one of the key problems with regional area clubs it seems). The problems facing many Sydney clubs is that the historic funding from pokie clubs is disappearing and the challenge fo finding sustainable funding sources from fans and corporates becomes very problematic when you have nine clubs all fishing in the same fish pond (to quote David gallop lol)
2. There would be nothing easy about relegating or relocating existing clubs. It would be hard, very hard. It may or may not be the answer but the NRL should not be kicking pebbles waiting to grow because it has an unsustainable situation with some clubs now.
3. All crowds have dropped, mostly due to sht scheduling and NRL's & clubs inability to turn a latent fan base into an active one. Its only last few years they have looked at growing memberships and now they are growing. one day the clubs might realise there is more money in gate takings and memberships than in TV grants, but the NRL wants the grants and clubs are fed a line that they have to accept the schedule regardless of impact on crowds
4. I don't get the argument that if you cut a club in a suburb the region will turn to another sport that doesn't have a club representing that region. it makes no sense. if you cut a club with no plan in place to fill the void sure, but that doesn't require a NRl club in every Sydney suburb to achieve.
5. AFL are going to pay the price at some point for not forcing Nth Melbourne to go to the GC. They were dumb for not shifting two Melbourne clubs into GWS and GC and it is costing them big time. Having said that they could see the problem, have put in a place a raft of financial strategies to deal with it and not let it stop their expansion plans.