If perth is such a can't miss home run for nrl expansion..?!

[Wb1234]

And some are,

Beyond the base grant, the grant is supposed to be the great leveller. West Coast get a great stadium deal and their crowds arent affected by timetables or competing clubs/sports, which somewhat evens out the grants the other clubs get to keep them in the game.

The WAFC also get money from the AFL.

The afl should be paying the wafl not those clubs

the afl gets two big clubs which they make lots of money off then use that money to give to clubs in the eastern states lol

 

[MugaB]

Wookie v potato =

That potato counting bitch has just
got no comeback.... wookies in your head bra

 

[The_Wookie]

The afl should be paying the wafl not those clubs

the afl gets two big clubs which they make lots of money off then use that money to give to clubs in the eastern states lol

The WA clubs dont give jack to the Eastern States clubs. The AFL grant covers their share of media rights, sponsorship and the WAFC development programs. THe WAFC dont want too much from the AFL in any case, as they fear losing independence.

 

[Wb1234]

The WA clubs dont give jack to the Eastern States clubs. The AFL grant covers their share of media rights, sponsorship and the WAFC development programs. THe WAFC dont want too much from the AFL in any case, as they fear losing independence.

Put it this way

there is no way in hell the broncos cowboys and titans are paying millions of dollars to the qrl at the same time they are getting less from the arlc than the Melbourne storm and nz warriors

rugby league clubs don’t care about the greater good

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I mean sure, the NRL took them over for the f**king fun of it.

Don't be a dickhead all of your life.

And its not a matter of belief. All clubs in the NRL - whether in Sydney or not - are entitled to the grant under their funding agreements.

I never said they're not entitled to it under the current agreement. I said the annual grant should only cover the salary cap, but that would require the ARLC to put thar condition in writing when the current agreement expires. It won't happen.

Dude all you do is make shit up. Whether its something I said, or evidently even Australian acccounting standards.

When you're confronted about your statements you claim you never made them in the first place. I've provided quotes of your original claims to prove you're lying through your teeth.

They were literally unviable. The Sydney clubs arent. Key difference.

At the time they were unviable due to stadium rental fees, leasing office space and loss of sponsorship. This led to them being $4.9m in debt by 2015. That was with an annual grant that wasn't 130% of the salary cap.

Since then, the stadium rental fee was lowered and they've their office to something more affordable. They're well sponsored now.

None of this changes the fact the Cronulla Sharks were $5.9m in debt by the end of 2018 and were asked by Todd Greenberg to justify their existence in the NRL. That was when they were receiving an annual grant that was 130% of the salary cap.

You cannot shit on the Titans without mentioning Cronulla's predicament in 2018.

No I wasnt. And it was one poster who claimed I did something that no one else agreed with...but you. And he hasnt really posted in that thread since. That does seem a little convenient.

Argh, so you're a crazy conspiracy theorist. The only reason more posters don't call you out on your bullshit is because they hate my guts for speaking the truth about the Sydney clubs. I'm dealing with incredibly biased people who have no principles and only care about their clubs. You're a charlatan telling them what they want to hear because you need their approval. These people routinely call for the Titans to be axed. Just like you did a few posts ago. If you had a life you wouldn't be so desperate for approval from people who don't give a shit about you.

No I never said that at all. When will you stop making shit up.

You said the Titans should have been left to die you f**ken liar:

I dont care. Either a club is viable or its not. If its not viable then f**k it off. You want perfectly viable clubs gone because you dont like where they are from and you dont like their revenue streams, but are perfectly ok with the league bailing out clubs that are actually financially destitute.

You said it. Own it. Stop lying. Knock off the gaslighting.

And I never said it was. They got the same grant as everyone else - whatever level it was - that they've been entitled to since 2008.

Before December 2016 the amount of money the clubs were given to spend to cover football operations outside of the salary cap was much lower.

You conveniently overlook the fact Cronulla found themselves in debt to the tune of $5.5m in 2018, despite receiving more money from the ARLC to spend on football operations than the Titans got when they were in debt to the tune of $4.9m in 2015. Titans were a basketcase on the field in the lead up to 2015. Cronulla won a premiership in 2016.

If a club cannot draw enough revenue from ticketing, membership, sponsorship and corporate hospitality to remain viable just two years after winning their maiden premiership then it has no chance of ever being able to do so.

Calling me nasty names doesnt change that.

I'm telling it like it is. You get what you deserve.

So they were worse off. Thanks for playing.

They were forced to play by a different set of rules to the Sydney clubs and it f**ked them over. Similar to what happened to the Cowboys, Reds, Crushers and Warriors in 1995. The Queensland government and ARLC were to blame for expecting too much from a new club that was still finding its feet.

The Sydney clubs are lucky that they never had to pay $2.6m per annum on exhorbitant stadium rental fees and a lease for office space.

Cronulla didn't have these hurdles in front of them, yet they ended up in more debt than the Titans in 2018.

In 2019, the Cowboys biggest earner was Gaming. Followed by the NRL Grant. (these were 48% of revenue)
In 2020, the Cowboys biggest earner was Grants, followed by gaming. (these were 60% of revenue)
In 2021, the Cowboys biggest earner was Grants, followed by gaming. (these were 52% of revenue)

In all 3 years, gaming revenue was much much higher than that of the closest football derived revenue.

Why are you lying when the information on the annual reports prove you're full of shit?

Are you hoping no one will bother to read the annual reports?

In 2021 the Cowboys generated $8,986,580 from sponsorship and corporate hospitality plus $8,962,305 from ticketing and membership. That puts their revenue from football operations at $17,948,885. Gaming revenue for the season was just $16,153,703. I obtained this information from p19 of the Cowboys 2021 Annual Report. The annual grant was over larger than $18m due to concessions for COVID-19.

In 2020 gaming revenue was higher than revenue from football operations by $3m due to COVID-19 limiting how many people could attend matches.

In 2019 the amount from football operations was $16,251,760. Gaming machine revenue was $14,670,139. Don't take my word for it. See for yourself by visiting the 2019 annual report from their website. Revenue from football operations is listed on p15 under Marketing and operating sales ($9,226,922) and Match day ($6,869,643). Combined that is $16,251,760. The annual grant was $13,555,375.

Once again you've been exposed as a f**ken liar.

In the first place noting that you dont consider the grant a legit form of revenue and also noting that the above doesnt count member subscriptions to the leagues club or food and beverage, the majority of income isnt derived by the club selling tickets and memberships and sponsorships.

Read the annual report. On p19 it provides data for Consolidated and Parent. The football club falls under "Consolidated" and the annual report mentions how much it made from Sponsorship income ($8,986,580), Merchandise sales ($1,371,381), Membership income ($3,029,838) and Game day and event income ($5,932,467). I didn't include the figures from Parent as that's the Leagues Club.

But hey thanks for providing a link where I literally provided you with data. lol.

The only annual report you provided was the one for the Roosters in 2021 because it was unavailable on the club's website. I got the rest from the websites of the clubs.[/URL]

 

[MugaB]

Don't be a dickhead all of your life.



I never said they're not entitled to it under the current agreement. I said the annual grant should only cover the salary cap, but that would require the ARLC to put thar condition in writing when the current agreement expires. It won't happen.



When you're confronted about your statements you claim you never made them in the first place. I've provided quotes of your original claims to prove you're lying through your teeth.



At the time they were unviable due to stadium rental fees, leasing office space and loss of sponsorship. This led to them being $4.9m in debt by 2015. That was with an annual grant that wasn't 130% of the salary cap.

Since then, the stadium rental fee was lowered and they've their office to something more affordable. They're well sponsored now.

None of this changes the fact the Cronulla Sharks were $5.9m in debt by the end of 2018 and were asked by Todd Greenberg to justify their existence in the NRL. That was when they were receiving an annual grant that was 130% of the salary cap.

You cannot shit on the Titans without mentioning Cronulla's predicament in 2018.



Argh, so you're a crazy conspiracy theorist. The only reason more posters don't call you out on your bullshit is because they hate my guts for speaking the truth about the Sydney clubs. I'm dealing with incredibly biased people who have no principles and only care about their clubs. You're a charlatan telling them what they want to hear because you need their approval. These people routinely call for the Titans to be axed. Just like you did a few posts ago. If you had a life you wouldn't be so desperate for approval from people who don't give a shit about you.



You said the Titans should have been left to die you f**ken liar:

​

You said it. Own it. Stop lying. Knock off the gaslighting.



Before December 2016 the amount of money the clubs were given to spend to cover football operations outside of the salary cap was much lower.

You conveniently overlook the fact Cronulla found themselves in debt to the tune of $5.5m in 2018, despite receiving more money from the ARLC to spend on football operations than the Titans got when they were in debt to the tune of $4.9m in 2015. Titans were a basketcase on the field in the lead up to 2015. Cronulla won a premiership in 2016.

If a club cannot draw enough revenue from ticketing, membership, sponsorship and corporate hospitality to remain viable just two years after winning their maiden premiership then it has no chance of ever being able to do so.



I'm telling it like it is. You get what you deserve.



They were forced to play by a different set of rules to the Sydney clubs and it f**ked them over. Similar to what happened to the Cowboys, Reds, Crushers and Warriors in 1995. The Queensland government and ARLC were to blame for expecting too much from a new club that was still finding its feet.

The Sydney clubs are lucky that they never had to pay $2.6m per annum on exhorbitant stadium rental fees and a lease for office space.

Cronulla didn't have these hurdles in front of them, yet they ended up in more debt than the Titans in 2018.



Why are you lying when the information on the annual reports prove you're full of shit?

Are you hoping no one will bother to read the annual reports?

In 2021 the Cowboys generated $8,986,580 from sponsorship and corporate hospitality plus $8,962,305 from ticketing and membership. That puts their revenue from football operations at $17,948,885. Gaming revenue for the season was just $16,153,703. I obtained this information from p19 of the Cowboys 2021 Annual Report. The annual grant was over larger than $18m due to concessions for COVID-19.

In 2020 gaming revenue was higher than revenue from football operations by $3m due to COVID-19 limiting how many people could attend matches.

In 2019 the amount from football operations was $16,251,760. Gaming machine revenue was $14,670,139. Don't take my word for it. See for yourself by visiting the 2019 annual report from their website. Revenue from football operations is listed on p15 under Marketing and operating sales ($9,226,922) and Match day ($6,869,643). Combined that is $16,251,760. The annual grant was $13,555,375.

Once again you've been exposed as a f**ken liar.



Read the annual report. On p19 it provides data for Consolidated and Parent. The football club falls under "Consolidated" and the annual report mentions how much it made from Sponsorship income ($8,986,580), Merchandise sales ($1,371,381), Membership income ($3,029,838) and Game day and event income ($5,932,467). I didn't include the figures from Parent as that's the Leagues Club.



The only annual report you provided was the one for the Roosters in 2021 because it was unavailable on the club's website. I got the rest from the websites of the clubs.[/URL]

Still butthurt... keep on crapping on, in defence of the titans, no matter how you spin it or whatever numbers you throw around, fact is titans got bailed out, NRL took them over, regardless of the stadium fees or whatever excuses you post, no matter how you justify it... and your deadset right about people hating on you, but its got nothing to do with any false truths you think exist, its the BS agenda you keep harping on about... its relentless repetitive about pokie dens, sydney or whatever fantasy football you got going in your head, none of it is to do with expansion of the current game, its all destructive and jealousy driving your narrative

 

[The_Wookie]

Don't be a dickhead all of your life.

One should look at ones own actions.

When you're confronted about your statements you claim you never made them in the first place. I've provided quotes of your original claims to prove you're lying through your teeth.

You havent been quoting anything lately. And youve never proved Ive lied about anything.

Go f**k yourself.

At the time they were unviable due to stadium rental fees, leasing office space and loss of sponsorship. This led to them being $4.9m in debt by 2015. That was with an annual grant that wasn't 130% of the salary cap.

So they should have been gone. Cant have other clubs bailing out the unprofitable ones.

You cannot shit on the Titans without mentioning Cronulla's predicament in 2018.

Sure I can.

Argh, so you're a crazy conspiracy theorist.

No Im not. Nothing Ive said is a conspiracy.

The only reason more posters don't call you out on your bullshit is because they hate my guts for speaking the truth about the Sydney clubs.

They hate your guts because you post like a jackass.

I'm dealing with incredibly biased people who have no principles and only care about their clubs.

And Im dealing with someone who doesnt appear to know what viability means in an accounting or legal sense, but instead wants to project their own moral code on the rest of humanity.

You're a charlatan telling them what they want to hear because you need their approval.

I dont need their approval.

These people routinely call for the Titans to be axed. Just like you did a few posts ago.

They were unviable. By the rules you set for Sydney clubs - you know, ones that actually are viable - they should not exist. I didnt not call for them to be axed now.

If you had a life you wouldn't be so desperate for approval from people who don't give a shit about you.

I dont need these peoples approval, Ive regularly disagreed and been disparaged on this forums over the years. I call it how I see it.

You said the Titans should have been left to die you f**ken liar:

I said if you applied your own code concerning unviable clubs, then they should have been. You really dont seem to like that.

You said it. Own it. Stop lying. Knock off the gaslighting.

You apply double standards, let alone bullshit accounting ones.

Before December 2016 the amount of money the clubs were given to spend to cover football operations outside of the salary cap was much lower.

You conveniently overlook the fact Cronulla found themselves in debt to the tune of $5.5m in 2018, despite receiving more money from the ARLC to spend on football operations than the Titans got when they were in debt to the tune of $4.9m in 2015. Titans were a basketcase on the field in the lead up to 2015. Cronulla won a premiership in 2016.

I never spoke about Cronulla at all for that matter. Thats your personal little target shift. I personally dont have an issue with the NRL supporting clubs - you do, and the hypocrisy is f**king amazing.

I'm telling it like it is. You get what you deserve.

And as I said, it didnt change the facts atr all

They were forced to play by a different set of rules to the Sydney clubs and it f**ked them over. Similar to what happened to the Cowboys, Reds, Crushers and Warriors in 1995. The Queensland government and ARLC were to blame for expecting too much from a new club that was still finding its feet.

Cry me a river.

Why are you lying when the information on the annual reports prove you're full of shit?

Why cant you just read what people f**king write before going off on a tangent

Are you hoping no one will bother to read the annual reports?

At this point Im not even sure you can read, you certainly didnt comprehend what I wrote.

In 2021 the Cowboys generated $8,986,580 from sponsorship and corporate hospitality plus $8,962,305 from ticketing and membership. That puts their revenue from football operations at $17,948,885. Gaming revenue for the season was just $16,153,703. I obtained this information from p19 of the Cowboys 2021 Annual Report. The annual grant was over larger than $18m due to concessions for COVID-19.

In 2020 gaming revenue was higher than revenue from football operations by $3m due to COVID-19 limiting how many people could attend matches.

In 2019 the amount from football operations was $16,251,760. Gaming machine revenue was $14,670,139. Don't take my word for it. See for yourself by visiting the 2019 annual report from their website. Revenue from football operations is listed on p15 under Marketing and operating sales ($9,226,922) and Match day ($6,869,643). Combined that is $16,251,760. The annual grant was $13,555,375.

Yes, I read the same reports. And I dont disagree, even if its not what I said at all. I repeat:

In 2019, the Cowboys biggest earner was Gaming. Followed by the NRL Grant. (these were 48% of revenue)
In 2020, the Cowboys biggest earner was Grants, followed by gaming. (these were 60% of revenue)
In 2021, the Cowboys biggest earner was Grants, followed by gaming. (these were 52% of revenue)

In all 3 years, gaming revenue was much much higher than that of the closest football derived revenue by segment.

At no point did I combine all the football revenues. I merely pointed out that by your ranting on this site:

the Grant isnt legitimate revenue
Pokies arent legitimate revenue

This didnt include food and beverage or leagues club memberships.

And football operations revenue - by segment or total - does not overcome the power of these combined in any given year. By your Sydney club theory, the Cowboys are not a viable club either.

Once again you've been exposed as a f**ken liar.

Literally nothing you wrote makes me a liar. It does mean you arent reading what you think you are when people post.

I suggest you read what I wrote again. I never said gaming was higher than ALL football revenue, I said gaming and the grant were the two largest generating revenue sectors by a fair margin.

The only annual report you provided was the one for the Roosters in 2021 because it was unavailable on the club's website. I got the rest from the websites of the clubs.[/URL]

And yet still provided. No no your thanks was enough. Your welcome.

 

[Perth Red]

One should look at ones own actions.



You havent been quoting anything lately. And youve never proved Ive lied about anything.

Go f**k yourself.




So they should have been gone. Cant have other clubs bailing out the unprofitable ones.



Sure I can.




No Im not. Nothing Ive said is a conspiracy.



They hate your guts because you post like a jackass.



And Im dealing with someone who doesnt appear to know what viability means in an accounting or legal sense, but instead wants to project their own moral code on the rest of humanity.



I dont need their approval.



They were unviable. By the rules you set for Sydney clubs - you know, ones that actually are viable - they should not exist. I didnt not call for them to be axed now.



I dont need these peoples approval, Ive regularly disagreed and been disparaged on this forums over the years. I call it how I see it.



I said if you applied your own code concerning unviable clubs, then they should have been. You really dont seem to like that.



You apply double standards, let alone bullshit accounting ones.



I never spoke about Cronulla at all for that matter. Thats your personal little target shift. I personally dont have an issue with the NRL supporting clubs - you do, and the hypocrisy is f**king amazing.




And as I said, it didnt change the facts atr all



Cry me a river.



Why cant you just read what people f**king write before going off on a tangent



At this point Im not even sure you can read, you certainly didnt comprehend what I wrote.



Yes, I read the same reports. And I dont disagree, even if its not what I said at all. I repeat:



In all 3 years, gaming revenue was much much higher than that of the closest football derived revenue by segment.

At no point did I combine all the football revenues. I merely pointed out that by your ranting on this site:

the Grant isnt legitimate revenue
Pokies arent legitimate revenue

This didnt include food and beverage or leagues club memberships.

And football operations revenue - by segment or total - does not overcome the power of these combined in any given year. By your Sydney club theory, the Cowboys are not a viable club either.



Literally nothing you wrote makes me a liar. It does mean you arent reading what you think you are when people post.

I suggest you read what I wrote again. I never said gaming was higher than ALL football revenue, I said gaming and the grant were the two largest generating revenue sectors by a fair margin.



And yet still provided. No no your thanks was enough. Your welcome.

Are you still having fun?

we’ve strayed a long way from perth as club 18 lol

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

You havent been quoting anything lately. And youve never proved Ive lied about anything.

Go f**k yourself

I've quoted you numerous times over the last 24 hours to point out your contradictions. Your response to being exposed is to deny the patently obviously truth because you're a troll.

So they should have been gone. Cant have other clubs bailing out the unprofitable ones.

If the Titans go in 2015 for this reason then Cronulla goes in 2018.

In what universe did the other clubs bail out the Titans?

Greenberg actually went to the ARLC and brought up the prospect of relocating the Sharks.

Sure I can.

You're trolling. If you held any principles then you wouldn't keep on lying. This is all a big game to you because you've got nothing better to do.

No Im not. Nothing Ive said is a conspiracy.

You alluded to me being @Maximus a few posts back.

They hate your guts because you post like a jackass.

Since when does a person have to worship the NSWRL?

Grow up you wanker.

And Im dealing with someone who doesnt appear to know what viability means in an accounting or legal sense, but instead wants to project their own moral code on the rest of humanity.

Sharks were $5.9m in debt by the end of 2018. Greenberg asked them why they should be allowed to continue in the competition. He took the matter to the ARLC. Spin it however you like, but they were every bit as destitute as the Titans.

Why do you think Greenberg wanted to move them on?

They were unviable. By the rules you set for Sydney clubs - you know, ones that actually are viable - they should not exist. I didnt not call for them to be axed now.

You said the Titans should have been axed in 2015. Using that logic then Cronulla should have gone in 2018.

I dont need these peoples approval, Ive regularly disagreed and been disparaged on this forums over the years. I call it how I see it.

If this is how you see it then you're a senile old dickhead and belong in a straight jacket.

I said if you applied your own code concerning unviable clubs, then they should have been. You really dont seem to like that.

No you didn't. I've quoted you twice on this matter. I'll quote you for a third time to prove you're a lying troll with no life:

I dont care. Either a club is viable or its not. If its not viable then f**k it off. You want perfectly viable clubs gone because you dont like where they are from and you dont like their revenue streams, but are perfectly ok with the league bailing out clubs that are actually financially destitute.

You apply double standards, let alone bullshit accounting ones.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

I never spoke about Cronulla at all for that matter. Thats your personal little target shift. I personally dont have an issue with the NRL supporting clubs - you do, and the hypocrisy is f**king amazing.

You said all Sydney clubs are viable after saying the Knights and Titans were not and should have been booted. Cronulla weren't viable in 2018. Earlier in your post you said you can shit on the Titans but not the Sharks. If you're having a troll then grow up, but if you seriously believe what you're saying then you belong in the loony bin.

Cry me a river.

Double standard.

Why cant you just read what people f**king write before going off on a tangent

More gaslighting. You're very predictable

Why can't you spell properly?

Why can't you own up to your mistakes?

Why can't you act like a man?

At this point Im not even sure you can read, you certainly didnt comprehend what I wrote.

I understand your posts perfectly. You contradicted yourself and don't have the balls to admit to your mistake. You've made a habit out of this.

Yes, I read the same reports. And I dont disagree, even if its not what I said at all. I repeat:

In all 3 years, gaming revenue was much much higher than that of the closest football derived revenue by segment.

At no point did I combine all the football revenues. I merely pointed out that by your ranting on this site:

the Grant isnt legitimate revenue
Pokies arent legitimate revenue

This didnt include food and beverage or leagues club memberships.

And football operations revenue - by segment or total - does not overcome the power of these combined in any given year. By your Sydney club theory, the Cowboys are not a viable club either.

Why are you splitting revenue from football operations into separate catergories?

It makes zero sense.

From the beginning I've spoken about revenue from football operations.

I never said the Cowboys make more revenue from football operations than the combined total of gaming and the annual grant, so f**k off with your non sequitur.

The only reason you're using a non sequitur is because you've lost the argument.

Literally nothing you wrote makes me a liar. It does mean you arent reading what you think you are when people post.

I suggest you read what I wrote again. I never said gaming was higher than ALL football revenue, I said gaming and the grant were the two largest generating revenue sectors by a fair margin.

Why aren't you comparing revenue from football operations as a whole to gaming and the annual grant?

Since the beginning of this discussion I've spoken about revenue from football operations.

Why would the amount generated from ticketing and membership alone need to be higher than gaming revenue for the Cowboys to be viable?

Why discount the revenue from other football operations such as merchandise, sponsorship and corporate hospitality?

Like I said before, the discussion was about "revenue from football operations".

You cannot follow a discussion. Nor can you spell.

 

[The_Wookie]

Are you still having fun?

Well yeah

we’ve strayed a long way from perth as club 18 lol

that we have

 

[The_Wookie]

I've quoted you numerous times over the last 24 hours to point out your contradictions. Your response to being exposed to deny the patently obviously truth because you're a troll.

no you havent. you have created outright false statements that i have not made. Numerous times.

If they go in 2015 then Cronulla goes in 2018.

Greenberg actually went to the ARLC and brought up the prospect of relocating or axing the Sharks.

But they didnt. And Cronulla were never taken over by the NRL. The Titans literally were.

You're trolling.

people that disagree with you arent trolling.

If you held any principles then you wouldn't keep on lying.

Ive not lied once. And nothing youve written proves otherwise, whatever you may believe.

This is all a big game to you because you've got nothing better to do in Adelaide.

Ive plenty to do, my time here occupies a minimal portion of my day.

You alluded to me being @Maximus a few posts back.

I said it was an odd coincidence that he popped up to agree with your position and then vanished, yes.

Since when does a person have to worship the NSWRL?

When the f**k did anyone say you did.

Grow up you wanker.

You're the one resorting to juvenile name calling here.

Sharks were $5.9m in debt by the end of 2018. Greenberg asked them why they should be allowed to continue in the competition. He took the matter to the ARLC. Spin it however you like, but they were every bit as destitute as the Titans.

Not to the point the league took them over.

Why do you think Greenberg wanted to move them on?

I dont care. Cronulla is your goal post shifting move, you tell me.

You said they should have been axed in 2015. Using that logic then Cronulla also goes in 2018.

Well given I was using your logic for the titans....

If this is how you see it then you're a senile old dickhead and belong in a straight jacket.

You really hate losing arguments.

No you didn't. I've quoted you twice on this matter. I'll quote you for a third time to prove you're a lying troll with no life:

Lets see the damn quote, and Ill bet you a) dont quote it all and b) lie about its context and c) fail to comprehend the text your quoting. Youve done it from the start and accused me of doing it all the time. I believe this is called projection.

You said all Sydney clubs are viable after saying the Knights and Titans were not and should have been booted.

I did - and I also said that this was judged on your own arguments regarding club viability. The Titans and Newcastle were literally unviable at the time. The Cowboys are now according to your "grants and pokies are bad" doctrine.

The time frames arent the same for a f**king start. Ive said the Sydney clubs ARE viable. The Titans when taken over by the NRL were not. I said - repeatedly - that using your own criteria, a non viable club should not be supported by the league, and thus should not have been removed.

I barely touched on Newcastle. But again, applying the standard you currently have for Sydney clubs, the Titans, Knights - and Cowboys should not exist either. And thats the point.

Cronulla weren't viable in 2018, yet you continue to say they were. Earlier in your post you said you can shit on the Titans but not the Sharks. If you're having a troll then grow up, but if you seriously believe what you're saying then you belong in the loony bin.

I didnt give a damn about the Sharks, you bought them up for reasons I cant fathom. That Cronulla were in trouble, sure. But that the Titans had to put their property arm into administration and then were taken over by the NRL, and the Sharks werent, is documented history.

Double standard.

No I just dont give a shit about that.

More gaslighting. You're very predictable

Well why cant you read and comprehend posts before you respond to them.

Why can't you spell properly?

Generally can, but hey its a forum and I dont care enough to act like its a f**king thesis. Grammar nazism is the last refuge of people who lose arguments.

Why can't you own up to your mistakes?

I do when I make them. I havent here.

I understand it perfectly. You contradicted yourself and don't have the balls to admit your mistake.

Thus sproving you didnt understand it at all.

Why are you splitting revenue from football operations into separate catergories?

It makes zero sense.

From the beginning I've spoken about revenue from football operations.

I never said then Cowboys make more revenue from football operations than the combined total of gaming and the annual grant, so f**k off with your non sequitur.

The only reason you're using a non sequitur is because you lost the argument.

I literally proved that your argument was pretty much shit based on the standards YOU apply to other clubs. Thats the only part of the argument Im having, and its the only part of the argument you appear to be completely missing.

Why aren't you comparing revenue from football operations as a whole to gaming and the annual grant?

Um because I did? Or are you daft. I literally broke down the percentage of revenue that comprises gaming and the grant, and split it off to show that whatever other revenue is left categorically cannot be greater.

Since the beginning of this discussion I've spoken about revenue from football operations
Why would the amount generated from ticketing and membership alone need to be higher than gaming revenue for the Cowboys to be viable?

I never said it did. Once again, I applied the standard you set for the Sydney clubs to the Cowboys, and they were found wanting. This wasnt rocket science.

Why discount the revenue from other football operations such as merchandise, sponsorship and corporate hospitality?

At no stage did I do this.

Like I said before, the discussion was about "revenue from football operations".

The discussion was about you applying a standard to Sydney clubs and not being able handle it when thats apply to your precious Queensland ones.

You cannot follow a discussion. Nor can you spell.

lol sure.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

no you havent. you have created outright false statements that i have not made. Numerous times.

Provide one example of me doing this to you.

But they didnt. And Cronulla were never taken over by the NRL. The Titans literally were.

You're comparing apples and oranges. The NRL took over the Titans before the annual grant was raised to 130% of the salary cap. Cronulla fell in a heap after the annual grant was raised to 130% of the salary cap and were in more debt. If the Sharks were in that predicament three years earlier then they may not be around today.

people that disagree with you arent trolling.

You're creating strawman arguments and non sequiturs to derail the topic. That is trolling.

Ive not lied once. And nothing youve written proves otherwise, whatever you may believe.

I've already exposed your lie by quoting it three times. You try to wear people down through repetition and denial. It won't work with me.

Ive plenty to do, my time here occupies a minimal portion of my day.

You're quick to respond with lengthy posts.

I said it was an odd coincidence that he popped up to agree with your position and then vanished, yes.

We both know what you were alluding to.

When the f**k did anyone say you did.

You said I'm not a rugby league fan because I believe Sydney should be rationalised. There are people in the ARLC who want Sydney to be rationalised. The Bradley Report mentioned rationalisation of Sydney as a necessity. The NSWRL were in the process of rationalising Sydney on the 80s.

You're the one resorting to juvenile name calling here.

You called me an "idiot" a few weeks ago because I proved the Eels are weening themselves off pokies after you asked for proof that they were weening themselves off pokies. Turn about is fair play.

Not to the point the league took them over.

Only because the conditions in 2018 were far more favourable for the Sharks than they were for the Titans in 2015. Your refusal to acknowledge context is a classic example of trolling. You do it all the time.

I dont care. Cronulla is your goal post shifting move, you tell me.

I raised Cronulla's situation in 2018 to expose your hypocrisy.

Well given I was using your logic for the titans....

But it wasn't my logic, was it?

The Gemba Report provided evidence that the smallest clubs need to generate at least $10m in revenue to survive alongside the annual grant. There are two clubs from Sydney who failed to make $10m from football operations in 2021. Cowboys made $17m from football operations, yet you reckon they're unviable.

For you to be right then the Gemba Report has to be wrong.

See for yourself on p28 of the Gemba Report.

• Based on benchmarks from existing smaller NRL clubs, it is estimated that a new club would have operating costs of $23.6m per year which is largely driven by Player Wages and Other Wages
• The NRL provides clubs with a Grant of at least $13.6m and covers some other operational expenses which aren’t included in the estimated total costs
• Assuming a new club had an operating cost base of $23.6m, the club would need to generate $10.0m in revenue through Sponsorship, Game Day Revenue, Hospitality, Membership etc. in order to break even. This is expected to be challenging in early years due to the competitive landscape in which the club is entering
• If the club is unable to achieve this, the operating loss would need to be covered by the club or the NRL would be required to provide additional financial support

https://origin.go.theaustralian.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Gemba_NRL-Expansion-Analysis_Final-Report_170621.pdf

You really hate losing arguments.

You haven't proven me wrong. All you've done is shift the goalposts whenever I've exposed your logical fallacies and ignorance. You claim you're using my logic, except the parameters you're using are nothing like anything I've ever used to gauge a club's viability.

Lets see the damn quote, and Ill bet you a) dont quote it all and b) lie about its context and c) fail to comprehend the text your quoting. Youve done it from the start and accused me of doing it all the time. I believe this is called projection.

I've shown it to you three f**king times. Each time I've done so you've refused to address it. I'll show it again, but I'm sure you won't respond to it.

Here it is, for the fourth time:

I dont care. Either a club is viable or its not. If its not viable then f**k it off. You want perfectly viable clubs gone because you dont like where they are from and you dont like their revenue streams, but are perfectly ok with the league bailing out clubs that are actually financially destitute.

Do you think you can address your statement this time?

I did - and I also said that this was judged on your own arguments regarding club viability. The Titans and Newcastle were literally unviable at the time. The Cowboys are now according to your "grants and pokies are bad" doctrine.

If we're going by the Gemba Report's findings then the Cowboys meet the criteria needed to be viable.

I'll note that I never said the salary cap shouldn't be covered by the annual grant.

On numerous occasions across many threads I've said the salary cap should be covered by the ARLC and the clubs should be responsible for fundingfootball operations. On this metric the Cowboys are fine as the $17m they generated from football operations in 2021 was more than enough to cover the $14.1m needed to cover staff, game day, administration and marketing. Remember, this is based on the findings on p27 of the Gemba Report.

https://origin.go.theaustralian.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Gemba_NRL-Expansion-Analysis_Final-Report_170621.pdf

What you've done is create a strawman by falsely accusing me of saying the clubs should have to cover the salary cap and expenses of running a team.

I challenge you to quote me saying anything like what you're suggesting.

Do you think you can do that?

If you're not a liar then you won't have any trouble whatsoever.

Unfortunately for you, there's zero chance of you pulling this off because I've never said it.

The time frames arent the same for a f**king start. Ive said the Sydney clubs ARE viable. The Titans when taken over by the NRL were not. I said - repeatedly - that using your own criteria, a non viable club should not be supported by the league, and thus should not have been removed.

You're not using my criteria. You've made your own criteria and tried to pass it off as my criteria. What you're doing is arguing against a strawman because you cannot defeat my actual argument.

I barely touched on Newcastle. But again, applying the standard you currently have for Sydney clubs, the Titans, Knights - and Cowboys should not exist either. And thats the point.

It's not my criteria that you're using. The fact you cannot find a single post of me advocating the rubbish you're assigning to me proves you've made up a strawman.

I didnt give a damn about the Sharks, you bought them up for reasons I cant fathom. That Cronulla were in trouble, sure. But that the Titans had to put their property arm into administration and then were taken over by the NRL, and the Sharks werent, is documented history.

If you cannot see the relevance then you're a moron. I've already explained it to you. No point doing it again as it'll go right over your head.

No I just dont give a shit about that.

That's not how arguments work.

Well why cant you read and comprehend posts before you respond to them.

I've responded to what you've written. The problem is this isn't going the way you hoped it would, so you're creating strawmen to divert attention away from your erroneous statements.

Generally can, but hey its a forum and I dont care enough to act like its a f**king thesis. Grammar nazism is the last refuge of people who lose arguments.

This ain't the first time you've spelt like a child from a special school.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Thus sproving you didnt understand it at all.



I literally proved that your argument was pretty much shit based on the standards YOU apply to other clubs. Thats the only part of the argument Im having, and its the only part of the argument you appear to be completely missing.

Except I never said the clubs should have to cover the salary cap. I'll say it again, I challenge you to find a single post of me saying each club should cover the salary cap. Just one. You won't find one because I've never made that claim. Your whole argument is all $13.6m from the annual grant and gaming machine revenue shouldn't be included. I've said the annual grant shouldn't cover the football department and gaming machine revenue is separate to football operations.

Um because I did? Or are you daft. I literally broke down the percentage of revenue that comprises gaming and the grant, and split it off to show that whatever other revenue is left categorically cannot be greater.

Why are you including the entire annual grant?

You should be subtracting $9.6m from it as that money is reserved for the players. The other $4m goes towards the clubs.

I never said it did. Once again, I applied the standard you set for the Sydney clubs to the Cowboys, and they were found wanting. This wasnt rocket science.

Except I never included the salary cap in my argument, did I?

Can you find one post of me saying the clubs should foot the salary cap?

If every club needed to foot the bill for the salary cap then only the Broncos would be viable.

The discussion was about you applying a standard to Sydney clubs and not being able handle it when thats apply to your precious Queensland ones.

Prove it.

All you've done is create your own criteria and fraudulently assign it to me. That's a strawman argument. I've never said the clubs should have to foot the salary cap.

 

[MugaB]

Except I never said the clubs should have to cover the salary cap. I'll say it again, I challenge you to find a single post of me saying each club should cover the salary cap. Just one. You won't find one because I've never made that claim. Your whole argument is all $13.6m from the annual grant and gaming machine revenue shouldn't be included. I've said the annual grant shouldn't cover the football department and gaming machine revenue is separate to football operations.



Why are you including the entire annual grant?

You should be subtracting $9.6m from it as that money is reserved for the players. The other $4m goes towards the clubs.



Except I never included the salary cap in my argument, did I?

Can you find one post of me saying the clubs should foot the salary cap?

If every club needed to foot the bill for the salary cap then only the Broncos would be viable.



Prove it.

All you've done is create your own criteria and fraudulently assign it to me. That's a strawman argument. I've never said the clubs should have to foot the salary cap.

Wow Grotd really is a shitbag... even ive read every post wookie posted, and grotd still cant fathom it, just stuck in his "but but but cronulla" loop

 

[bad boy bubby]

Wow Grotd really is a shitbag... even ive read every post wookie posted, and grotd still cant fathom it, just stuck in his "but but but cronulla" loop

I've been out of touch for a few days, just doing a morning read. This is all quite simple.
Titans were royally screwed and had to be bailed out by the NRL.
Sharks were in debt and sorted it out themselves.
Anyone who cannot see how easy that difference is.... well i dunno

 

[Wb1234]

Wow Grotd really is a shitbag... even ive read every post wookie posted, and grotd still cant fathom it, just stuck in his "but but but cronulla" loop

Used to love singing this after a win

 

[Perth Red]

Anyway back to expansion. And club 18.

 

[The_Wookie]

Repetitive bullshit and denial and now some shit about the salary cap

I dont even think Ive ever mentioned the salary cap lol

f**k it, move on dude. We've done this dance in at least 2 other threads where there are numerous posts in numerous threads from you stating that the grant and gaming revenue shouldnt be included in Sydney clubs revenue when determining viability.

 

[MugaB]

Anyway back to expansion. And club 18.

Geez bro, ive told you already like 3 times, do i have to repost the same fkn post over and over again, get it thru that thick skull

THE PERF BEARS!!!!

Nah just kidding PR, luv ya bro...
But its the bears...

 

[Perth Red]

The WA clubs dont give jack to the Eastern States clubs. The AFL grant covers their share of media rights, sponsorship and the WAFC development programs. THe WAFC dont want too much from the AFL in any case, as they fear losing independence.

yeh I wish the WARL had had a significant source of income so they could have told the ARLC to jump when they bullied them into handing over WA!